Now Ye're Talking - to an expert on young drivers’ insurance

PMBC

Ian_80 wrote: »

Having a read of this thread and people talking about getting crazy quotes, putting them off the road, etc.

Went onto a website there, put in some fictional details;

34yr old male
Full irish licence
6 years no claims
1.6 Focus Zetec Petrol, 2009, sum insured 10k
No points
I put in that I was a Bank worker
Dublin west address

and I got a quote for €550 ish.....?

People who are saying they cant get a decent quote on a low powered car, either there is more to your driving history that your not telling us or your just not looking hard enough for a decent quote?!

It literally took me 2 min to get that price!!

No point ranting at a certain company, if you dont like their price...just leave them, simple?

Beat this one. +60 year old, full NCB, no penalty points, disqauls or other, retired, Dublin address, driving 2014 1litre, std spec., E200 for current year.

miezekatze

Hi Michael,

I have a full EU licence but have been living and driving in Ireland for 11 years under my own policy. In the past I was able to get a few reasonable quotes after lots of shopping around, but this year all I'm getting are crazy quotes, the cheapest ones are almost twice of what I paid last year. Has the loading increased for drivers on EU licences? How much more would I expect to pay compared to someone with a full Irish licence?

Thanks.

Liberty Insurance: Michael

madalig12 wrote: »

Oh thats ok then, because insurance companies ran THEMSELVES for years as loss making companies then you can change this year to profit making by doubling prices. What kind of business model are you idiots following?

Edit to my previous post as I ommited to add the following;

Whilst premiums have increased substantially over the last 24 months and we fully understand the frustrations this can cause, the average premium in the market now is below the average premium levels experienced in the market between 2001-2004.

Our goal is to service the insurance needs of our customers (existing and prospective new) at premiums that are substainable and consistent and with products and services that are comprehensive and suitable for their needs.

Bongalongherb

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to quote for your insurance. I am sorry that you didn't find our premium competitive on this occasion.

Without knowing your full risk profile I can only point to 2 factors that may be affecting your premium namely;

1. Provisional Licence
2. Age of vehicle

As I've mentioned before (and sorry to bring it up again), insurance companies set their prices at a level that covers the risk based on their own experience across their own motor account and looking in dept at various factors including but not limited to, driver experience, vehicle make/model/age/value, occupation, geographical location and so on.
As a result people will often experience variations in quotes across the different insurance providers.

Can I also suggest that you speak to a local insurance broker in your area who may be able to provide instant access to multiple insurers and who may be able to find you a more competitive price.

Hope this helps

Thanks,
Michael.

Thanks for the reply. The quote just seems outrageous considering my insurance was only €751 last year and now it's hiked up to almost 2 grand. My car was still 15 years old on last years insurance and I was never quoted anywhere near as much.

Thanks anyway.

CantGetNoSleep

miezekatze wrote: »

Hi Michael,

I have a full EU licence but have been living and driving in Ireland for 11 years under my own policy. In the past I was able to get a few reasonable quotes after lots of shopping around, but this year all I'm getting are crazy quotes, the cheapest ones are almost twice of what I paid last year. Has the loading increased for drivers on EU licences? How much more would I expect to pay compared to someone with a full Irish licence?

Thanks.

Can you swap that licence for an Irish one? I know in some other EU countries you can just walk in and get a local licence in exchange for your Irish one. I went in with my Irish licence and two passport photos on a Monday morning, they told me to come back on the Wednesday and pick up my new local licence (they sent the Irish one back here)

miezekatze

CantGetNoSleep wrote: »

Can you swap that licence for an Irish one? I know in some other EU countries you can just walk in and get a local licence in exchange for your Irish one. I went in with my Irish licence and two passport photos on a Monday morning, they told me to come back on the Wednesday and pick up my new local licence (they sent the Irish one back here)

You can and I may do that for next year, but it takes 2-3 months according to the website so too late for this renewal. I'm also not sure if swapping it would reset the clock for the 'how long have you held this licence' question or not - if it does then I may as well keep my current license.

Liberty Insurance: Michael

kupus wrote: »

Hi just another quick question.

How did two competing insurance companies decide within hours of each other that they would not insure cars older than 10 years?

Is that normal in the insurance industry. I don't know it. But I'm familiar in how the process of decision making goes in big companies.

It's a very big coincidence. Or is that me being my normal naive self.

Hi,

I'm sure you can appreciate that I can comment on other insurers practices or underwriting acceptance criteria so cannot provide an answer to this.

As previously mentioned at Liberty Insurance we quote for vehicles up to 20 years old.

Hope this helps,

Thanks,
Michael.

endacl

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Edit to my previous post as I ommited to add the following;

Whilst premiums have increased substantially over the last 24 months and we fully understand the frustrations this can cause, the average premium in the market now is below the average premium levels experienced in the market between 2001-2004.

Our goal is to service the insurance needs of our customers (existing and prospective new) at premiums that are substainable and consistent and with products and services that are comprehensive and suitable for their needs.

So, if the average is lower, but most people seem to be paying substantially more, who's getting the practically zero quote to drag the average down? And what would qualify the average motorist for such a policy?

Dravokivich

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

This is an AMA for asking questions of Michael about young driver's insurance. It's not about the state of the insurance industry or out of court settlements or the loadings on older cars or the cut-off points for age of cars; just about insurance for young drivers. Someone mentioned that a previous anonymous AMA with an insurance underwriter was really interesting, and it was, it was very popular. This one is not anonymous and not the same at all so please don't expect it to be a revelation of industry secrets.

What do you expect young drivers, or new drivers to be driving? This is quite an important point that should not be just brushed off. It all starts with those very 2 things.

Special Circumstances

Dravokivich wrote: »

What do you expect young drivers, or new drivers to be driving? This is quite an important point that should not be just brushed off. It all starts with those very 2 things.

Let them eat drive cake!

Liberty Insurance: Michael

endacl wrote: »

So, if the average is lower, but most people seem to be paying substantially more, who's getting the practically zero quote to drag the average down? And what would qualify the average motorist for such a policy?

Hi,

Generally the more experienced sectors of the market will experience lower premiums due to the fact that they typically have higher if not full NCB's and tend to hold full licences.

Hope this clarifies

Thanks,
Michael.

PMBC

Michael
Son, 27 yo, provisional licence, no previous driving/accidents/NCB/points etc. graduate working in events industry; no or little work driving; wants to become named driver on my insurance policy for a 3 yo 1l car, which costs me just under E200. My wife already named driver. He is preparing for his test in possibly six months time and would be a very occasional driver, supervised by a full license holder. His driving will be in preparation for his test and after that probably very occasional.
1. Do Liberty give any allowance as a named driver although only Prov Licence for a future insurance in his own name.
2. Does it matter if he no longer lives with our family, albeit in the same part of town.
Thanks in advance.

sydthebeat

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

Generally the more experienced sectors of the market will experience lower premiums due to the fact that they typically have higher if not full NCB's and tend to hold full licences.

Hope this clarifies

Thanks,
Michael.

well rubbish to that as im 39 yo, full NCB, 1.3 petrol 01 car and yet my premium went up min 100% this year... the highest quote was 300% of last years quote.

endacl

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

Generally the more experienced sectors of the market will experience lower premiums due to the fact that they typically have higher if not full NCB's and tend to hold full licences.

Hope this clarifies

Thanks,
Michael.

That'd be me. My quote tripled. What's the point of this AMA?

:rolleyes:

Special Circumstances

2.7K for 1.4 07 focus.
35 year old driver with max perfect driving record / experience.
How much more experience does one need? Experience of avoiding dinosaurs? Experience of when we had no motorways?



Us young drivers haven't a hope if fictional perfect drivers (It's limerick, not Aleppo. ) are being given PFO quotes.

jimgoose

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

Generally the more experienced sectors of the market will experience lower premiums due to the fact that they typically have higher if not full NCB's and tend to hold full licences...

That'd be Charlie here - 25 years, half-a-million miles of road on varying numbers of wheels from two to twenty-two, and I'm also a card-carrying instructor. Have you any theories as to why the good burghers at Liberty do not care for my custom?

1hnr79jr65

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

Believe me I understand how frustrating this must be.

The motor insurance industry in Ireland has generally been very unprofitable since 2006 due to increased competition which lead to unsustaniable rates/premiums being charged over the last 7/8 years - for reference see - https://www.centralbank.ie/publications/Documents/Insurance%20Statistics%202014.pdf

In a previous post I outlined that the average premium in the market between 2001-2004 was approx €850 and from 2005 to 2013 the average premium reduced to as low as approx €450 which resulted in the aforementioned results

Due to the increasing claims frequency, increasing value of awards from the injuries board and increasing value of court awards, premiums in the market have (over the last 24 months) increased to more sustainable levels

In response to your comment on EU deregulation. I cannot comment on what may or may not happen in this regard

I hope this helps to answer your question

Thanks,
Michael.

Ok thanks for answering the first point, its a semi reasonable response.

I have a further questions on older cars,

You have stated that Liberty will insure cars up to 20 years old, however based on others questions with answer yous have also provided there seems to be a loading to insurance costs for age of a car.

1. Is Liberty in favor of removing older cars from circulation?

2. If yes why is 20 years selected as the limit?

3. Do Liberty not cover classic car insurance (older than 30 years)?

Special Circumstances

Michael, you are being let down at every turn by the gap between reality and the pre-approved company line statements being fed to you.

Liberty Insurance: Michael

Dravokivich wrote: »

What do you expect young drivers, or new drivers to be driving? This is quite an important point that should not be just brushed off. It all starts with those very 2 things.

Hi,

If you are looking for the safest, most economical model then the Holy Grail is a small compact hatchback with a small engine size, good fuel efficiency and a high safety rating.

If you want more details check out our blog here - https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/blog/best-cars-for-young-drivers/

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Michael

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

2.7K for 1.4 07 focus.
35 year old driver with max perfect driving record / experience.
How much more experience does one need? Experience of avoiding dinosaurs? Experience of when we had no motorways?...

A 35-year-old accountant named Colin in another 2007 1.4l Focus with 1.5 wives-and-children had a blowout at 35kph near the IFSC in Dublin in 2013, losing control at that horrendous speed and scrawping a couple of Maseratis and a Bugatti Veyron. The resulting insurance bill was something like the GNP of Guatemala. Because this is on the claims stats, through careful application of the finest logical fallacies available to the science, the actuaries have determined that you, personally, are virtually certain to cause the Universe to end within ten seconds of turning the key. "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" :pac:

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

A 35-year-old accountant named Colin in another 2007 1.4l Focus with 1.5 wives-and-children had a blowout at 35kph near the IFSC in Dublin in 2013, losing control at that horrendous speed and scrawping a couple of Maseratis and a Bugatti Veyron. The resulting insurance bill was something like the GNP of Guatemala. Because this is on the claims stats, through careful application of the finest logical fallacies available to the science, the actuaries have determined that you, personally, are virtual certain to cause the Universe to end within ten seconds of turning the key. "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" :pac:

If only he had experience of driving without syncromesh gearboxes and vacuum assisted disc brakes - that would have prevented the horrific mess!

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

If only he had experience of driving without syncromesh gearboxes and vacuum assisted disc brakes - that would have prevented the horrific mess!

What, like me you mean, who learned to run a hairy old Eaton Twin-Split in a Seddon-Atkinson low-loader at the age of twelve? Nah, it doesn't help. :pac:

Special Circumstances

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

If you are looking for the safest, most economical model then the Holy Grail is a small compact hatchback with a small engine size, good fuel efficiency and a high safety rating.

If you want more details check out our blog here - https://www.libertyinsurance.ie/blog/best-cars-for-young-drivers/

Hope this helps.

Thanks,
Michael

I take it 80hp in a ford focus (5 star ncap when released http://www.euroncap.com/en/results/ford/focus/15640) is out of the question?

You'd be looking for 60hp or less?

I like the social conscience part of the fuel efficiency though, there's a bias against petrol so?

Liberty Insurance: Michael

All,

Thank you to everyone who has participated over the last number of days.

Our aim is to be as open and transparent as possible and this forum was set up with young drivers in mind, to provide advice and some tips on getting the best car insurance quotes.

We’re sorry there were some specific questions we haven’t been able to answer over the course of the thread. Where there was some feedback that we thought might be possible to provide in confidence, we asked for PM details.

Any "on topic" questions which I haven't answered will be complied and answers provided on this thread by the end of the week.

We appreciate that there is huge frustration in the market and part of the reason for the forum was to provide insight and advice where we were able to.

Thank you to everyone for taking part, this is clearly an important issue for many people, and your feedback is important to us.

Michael.

Special Circumstances

jimgoose wrote: »

What, like me you mean, who learned to run a hairy old Eaton Twin-Split in a Seddon-Atkinson low-loader at the age of twelve? Nah, it doesn't help. :pac:

Surely being able to fashion a makeshift fan belt from ladies tights for your pushrod engine must be far more valuable experience than knowing what all these modern street signs mean?

jimgoose

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Surely being able to fashion a makeshift fan belt from ladies tights for your pushrod engine must be far more valuable experience than knowing what all these modern street signs mean?

I happen to know that using ladies' nylon as an impromptu air-filter on a 1955 Matchless G80 can result in said nylon getting improbably wedged under an inlet valve. You have been warned. :cool:

Boards.ie: Niamh

Boards.ie: Niamh wrote: »

...So please welcome Michael to the forum. He will be answering queries between 9am-2pm Monday 15th – Wed 17th August so get your questions in now!

Quoted for clarity...the AMA has now come to an end.

Thanks for all of the questions and to Michael at Liberty for taking the time to answer them.

Liberty Insurance: Michael

Hi all,

Just to come back and answer a few outstanding questions from the thread in one go.

Any other questions you can always head over to the Liberty Insurance Talk To Forum.

Thanks,

Michael

Page 5 Q No 62 (Jamiered)
Q: So unless your'e a 19 - 29 year old, driving an average car with a small/medium engine, Liberty Insurance do not want you, they will quote you a very high premium because they do not want your money, as you are a risk.
A: Hi,
No this is certainly not the case. At Liberty insurance we quote for drivers of all ages.
Where we have a lot of expertise is in the young driver sector and lower risks within the young driver sector are drivers who opt for smaller and lower powered cars and therefore will obtain lower premiums.
We would be more than happy to look at your own individual profile so please feel free to PM us and we can arrange for someone to contact you regarding a quote.
Hope this clarifies your query
Many thanks,
Michael.

Page 6 Q no. 89 (Geotrig)
Q. Michael, do you think we need or could benefit for visible insurance groups here like i n the U.K.?

A. It’s a good question – and one we’re often asked. When they’re buying a car, people would like to know how much they’re liable to pay in insurance. You mention the situation in the U.K. where this service is provided by a company called Thatcham, who are experts in car safety. They provide the service on behalf of the Association of British Insurer (ABI).

It’s important to say, however, that the group rating is only an advisory service. In other words, British insurers are also free to assess the relative risks of cars based on their own experience. And this is the model that we use here in Ireland – each insurer provides quotes based on their experience of the type of car involved.

To get around the problem of knowing, in advance, what you might pay for insurance for a particular car, I’d definitely advise you to contact us BEFORE you buy the car and make sure you’re happy with the quote.
Hope this helps
Many thanks
Michael.

Page 7 Q No 93 (Negative G)
Q: "Ask me Anything" and I will give you a reply, so long as it toes the line of the company policy. I particularly liked the bit about high powered not just being about BHP but spec as well. I guess those alloy wheels, leather seats and electric windows make me an accident waiting to happen. Don't even mention the Bluetooth!

The insurance industry in Ireland is a complete farce. The consumer gets bent over regardless. The sooner another EU insurance provider comes in the better. It will be heavily opposed Im sure by the gangsters already here but its only a matter of time.

Michael, do you as an individual think the insurance industry is fair in its current guise.

Do you think it is fair that consumers still have to pay a levy for other failed insurance companies?
A: Hi,
As I’ve mentioned already the challenges the insurance industry face at present have been very well documented in the media in recent times, from increasing frequency and cost of claims to impaired profitability. Inevitably, all of these factors contribute to higher premiums for the consumer.
We can’t tackle this alone, however, we are working closely with our industry representative body, Insurance Ireland, to bring about positive change. In the medium term, we believe that a greater level of consistency is needed in relation to court awards – we need to align compensation for minor soft tissue injuries to the levels awarded in other international markets. We also need to adopt a tougher stance in cases where fraud is identified.
In relation to the levy, personally I don’t believe the public should have to pay levies for failed insurance companies but regulation and reform needs to play a stronger role going forward.
I hope this answers your questions
Many thanks,
Michael.

Page 11 Q No 153 (Miezekatze)
Q: I have a full EU licence but have been living and driving in Ireland for 11 years under my own policy. In the past I was able to get a few reasonable quotes after lots of shopping around, but this year all I'm getting are crazy quotes, the cheapest ones are almost twice of what I paid last year. Has the loading increased for drivers on EU licences? How much more would I expect to pay compared to someone with a full Irish licence?


A: Hi,
I cannot comment on the practices of other insurers, however, at Liberty Insurance we set our prices at a level that covers the risk based on our experience of particular profile and sectors.
While we understand your entitlements on having an EU licence to drive, if you hold a licence other than a licence issued by the NDLS in Ireland then you can, if you wish, apply/or exchange your current licence for a licence issued by the NDLS (subject to meeting NDLS application requirements – for more information on licence exchange/application please see www.ndls.ie).
Hope this helps
Many thanks,
Michael.

Page 11 Q No 163 (PMBC)
Q: Michael
Son, 27 yo, provisional licence, no previous driving/accidents/NCB/points etc. graduate working in events industry; no or little work driving; wants to become named driver on my insurance policy for a 3 yo 1l car, which costs me just under E200. My wife already named driver. He is preparing for his test in possibly six months time and would be a very occasional driver, supervised by a full license holder. His driving will be in preparation for his test and after that probably very occasional.
1. Do Liberty give any allowance as a named driver although only Prov Licence for a future insurance in his own name.

2. Does it matter if he no longer lives with our family, albeit in the same part of town.
Thanks in advance.

A: Hi,
Yes Liberty Insurance do allow named driving experience regardless of licence type assuming your son is named on your policy for a minimum of one year prior to taking out insurance in his own name and assuming he is claims and conviction free.
In relation to the residence question. No it does not matter if he no longer lives with your family when he is a named driver on your policy nor does it matter if he isn’t living with you when he comes to take out his own policy but the car must stay at the risk address the majority of the time.
Hope this answers your questions
Many thanks,
Michael.

Page 12 Q No 168 (Sour Lemonz)
Q: I have a further questions on older cars,

You have stated that Liberty will insure cars up to 20 years old, however based on others questions with answer yous have also provided there seems to be a loading to insurance costs for age of a car.

1. Is Liberty in favor of removing older cars from circulation?

2. If yes why is 20 years selected as the limit?

3. Do Liberty not cover classic car insurance (older than 30 years)?

A: Hi,
No Liberty are not in favour of removing older cars from circulation and have a wider vehicle acceptance criteria than many insurers in the market.
No Liberty do not provide classic car insurance at the present time.
Hope this answers your questions
Many thanks,
Michael.

Boards.ie: Niamh

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

All,

Thank you to everyone who has participated over the last number of days.

Our aim is to be as open and transparent as possible and this forum was set up with young drivers in mind, to provide advice and some tips on getting the best car insurance quotes.

We’re sorry there were some specific questions we haven’t been able to answer over the course of the thread. Where there was some feedback that we thought might be possible to provide in confidence, we asked for PM details.

Any "on topic" questions which I haven't answered will be complied and answers provided on this thread by the end of the week.

We appreciate that there is huge frustration in the market and part of the reason for the forum was to provide insight and advice where we were able to.

Thank you to everyone for taking part, this is clearly an important issue for many people, and your feedback is important to us.

Michael.

Michael had said he'd come back to answer some more of the questions at a later date, which he has now fulfilled. Thanks for taking the time to do this Michael. If anyone has any question for Liberty Insurance you can ask in their Talk To forum here.