Now Ye're Talking - to an expert on young drivers’ insurance

Jamiered

So unless your'e a 19 - 29 year old, driving an average car with a small/medium engine, Liberty Insurance do not want you, they will quote you a very high premium because they do not want your money, as you are a risk.

Liberty Insurance: Michael

Galadriel wrote: »

That's great you quote for older cars but last October I got a quote off you for my 1999 1.4 Peugeot 306 and was quoted €830, I have a full driving license (36 year old) and full no claims and no points etc.

So you are still quoting extra because my car is over 15 years old?

Hi,


Yes age of vehicle is a factor that we take in to account (one of many). The reason for this is that insurers set their prices based on their own particular experience.


Different insurers may have had different results and some insurers do not quote for vehicles over 10 years old as a direct result of their own experience.

I would also suggest that you look at cover options when seeking your next quote i.e. third party fire and theft v's comprehensive options and you may also have the option to remove some additional covers if you wish i.e. breakdown and windscreen cover which may help you reduce the cost


Regards,

Michael.

Special Circumstances

Holy cow batman,

1675.00 (1805 after 23% APR)

07D 1.4 Ford Focus
35+ year old driver
9years+ NCB
9years+ Full Irish Licence
No Claims
No penalty points convictions
Average annual mileage
Limerick City ( yeah yeah, but come on like!)

Liberty Insurance: Michael

Jamiered wrote: »

So unless your'e a 19 - 29 year old, driving an average car with a small/medium engine, Liberty Insurance do not want you, they will quote you a very high premium because they do not want your money, as you are a risk.

Hi,

At Liberty Insurance we are the market leader for young drivers in Ireland and understand the profile and performance of this market in particular including the various sub categories within

We look at various rating factors when assessing a quote application including but not limited to, experience, lic type, vehicle make/model, modifications, vehicle age, geographical location and so on

Our acceptance criteria sets out the vehicle types we will accept for certain driver profiles and this is standard practice in the market with most if not all insurers

We will accept quote applications for higher powered vehicles, however, these applications will need to meet our acceptance criteria regarding the driver and experience

Regards,
Michael.

Special Circumstances

At least they gave a 16% discount for buying online.....

Edit - tried a few more occupations for the craic, hilarity ensued.

Pub manager 2k+, fair enough more risky than some.
Electronic engineer - 2.7k.



Riddle me this AMA expert, how can a 35 year old electronic engineer, in a modest car, with perfect driving history and NCB be 2.7k?
These are all PFO quotes surely, what is the biggest PFO factor, excluding the occupation?

9 year old car?????
Limerick Citaaaay????

K0m0d0zer

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,


Yes age of vehicle is a factor that we take in to account (one of many). The reason for this is that insurers set their prices based on their own particular experience.


Different insurers may have had different results and some insurers do not quote for vehicles over 10 years old as a direct result of their own experience.

I would also suggest that you look at cover options when seeking your next quote i.e. third party fire and theft v's comprehensive options and you may also have the option to remove some additional covers if you wish i.e. breakdown and windscreen cover which may help you reduce the cost


Regards,

Michael.

Hi Michael,

Can I draw your attention to the format buttons - before submitting your responses (after copying and pasting), please format them to make them easier to read

K0m0d0zer

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,


Yes age of vehicle is a factor that we take in to account (one of many). The reason for this is that insurers set their prices based on their own particular experience.


Different insurers may have had different results and some insurers do not quote for vehicles over 10 years old as a direct result of their own experience.

I would also suggest that you look at cover options when seeking your next quote i.e. third party fire and theft v's comprehensive options and you may also have the option to remove some additional covers if you wish i.e. breakdown and windscreen cover which may help you reduce the cost


Regards,

Michael.

This thread has really helped me to make a decision on what insurer to choose.
Thanks Michael!

John_D80

Is this AMA something that you are doing of your own accord or is it on behalf of your employer?

Aren't you just basically toeing the company line with your answers?

geotrig

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,

As a genral rule you should see some reduction in your premium after five years if you haven't had any claims and have driving experience which you've pointed out that you have. Things that can affect this, however, would include any convictions or penalty points you might have picked up.

When an insurer like Liberty is assessing an application for insurance, we look at the profile of the driver and importantly also the car and unfortunately the overall profile in this instnace falls outside of our acceptance criteria

what a safe driver with money to spend on a good spec'd car ! ?

why dont we have insurance groups like in the uk ?

Hellrazer

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,


Yes age of vehicle is a factor that we take in to account (one of many). The reason for this is that insurers set their prices based on their own particular experience.


Different insurers may have had different results and some insurers do not quote for vehicles over 10 years old as a direct result of their own experience.

I would also suggest that you look at cover options when seeking your next quote i.e. third party fire and theft v's comprehensive options and you may also have the option to remove some additional covers if you wish i.e. breakdown and windscreen cover which may help you reduce the cost


Regards,

Michael.

But I specifically asked how a registration date of 2 weeks difference can deem a car less safe than another car ie car registered in December 2001 and a Car registered in January 2002--one is classed as 15 years old and one is classed as 14 years old.A car two weeks older than another one cant be 50% less safe.
Exact same car,same driver.
Nothing changed except the registration of the vehicle yet the premium is 50% more expensive.

Makes no sense at all.And is penalising drivers for a ridiculous reason.

bmwguy

Most AMA threads I have read have been honest and unbiased accounts from someone that was in a particular job or segment of society. This is nothing more than a promotional tool for Liberty.

Can boards.ie try this again with someone with no vested interest and can be honest, I.e. someone that no longer works for a company or even someone anonymous that wants to blow the whistle.

I actually thought of an idea of setting up a large database based on people's details (risk factors like age, location, car, licence type, claims history, penalty points etc) and their insurance costs with the different companies. If people would be kind enough to participate, of course. Boards motor forum members would be a great place to start.

Using some analysis and maths tools I would be able to disseminate the data and find out exactly what risk factors were causing increases and whether there is any rhyme or reason behind extortionate quotes people are getting or if some are just being taken for a ride.

TheChizler

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Pub manager 2k+, fair enough more risky than some.
Electronic engineer - 2.7k.

I could legitimately be described as any of four different types of Engineer, (Electrical, Electronic, Applications, Computer), Applications and Computer gave a quote of half the former two, strange!

Hellrazer

bmwguy wrote: »

Can boards.ie try this again with someone with no vested interest and can be honest, I.e. someone that no longer works for a company or even someone anonymous that wants to blow the whistle.

I actually thought of an idea of setting up a large database based on people's details (risk factors like age, location, car, licence type, claims history, penalty points etc) and their insurance costs with the different companies. If people would be kind enough to participate, of course. Boards motor forum members would be a great place to start.

Why do you think I tested this with 2 cars registered 2 weeks apart?
And its completely repeatable time after time.
Ive always wondered what the RSA`s stance on it would be?
Until someone takes a case against an insurance company for these practices its going to continue.
Whats the point of an NCT if its not being used for what it should?
Ok its only a snapshot in time but it has to have some bearing on Insurance premiums.

CantGetNoSleep

This truly is a terrible thread. My guess is it was suggested by someone in Liberty's PR agency, and then some young intern prepared a list of Q&As for Michael to base his responses on. Didn't learn one single thing from it.

Special Circumstances

TheChizler wrote: »

I could legitimately be described as any of four different types of Engineer, (Electrical, Electronic, Applications, Computer), Applications and Computer gave a quote of half the former two, strange!

Crazy mofo's those EEs.

But seriously... considering Ireland isn't exactly awash with electronic engineers, do a few of them moonlight as crash dummies or what to skew the quotes that much versus the others?

I doubt there's any sensible answer to why an electronic engineer os twice as deadly as a software engineer. But I really would like an answer to my question about the 9yr old Ford Focus in Limerick with an on paper "pretty much as solid as you'll get" driver. Even ignoring the the 2.7k for an engineer so lethal he must register himself as a weapon, starting at 1.6k for a normal joe is an absolute joke.

What is skewing that quote so much? the age? the model? the rampant 80bhp? the location?

Gaillimh1976

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Crazy mofo's those EEs.

But seriously... considering Ireland isn't exactly awash with electronic engineers, do a few of them moonlight as crash dummies or what to skew the quotes that much versus the others?

I doubt there's any sensible answer to why an electronic engineer os twice as deadly as a software engineer. But I really would like an answer to my question about the 9yr old Ford Focus in Limerick with an on paper "pretty much as solid as you'll get" driver. Even ignoring the the 2.7k for an engineer so lethal he must register himself as a weapon, starting at 1.6k for a normal joe is an absolute joke.

What is skewing that quote so much? the age? the model? the rampant 80bhp? the location?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Special Circumstances

Gaillimh1976 wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's not that bad... is it?

Falcon L

This thread was always going to be a car crash.

I just got my renewal yesterday. For the first time in many years, I'm just going to renew with the same insurer - no, not liberty, the quote was nearly double my renewal quote - the price has gone up 40 over last year. There was a change of car, lower power, higher value.

As I always do it, I got quotes from them all. The range of prices was staggering. For comprehensive cover, I was getting quoted anything from 325 to 840 for exactly the same cover! How can this happen? Surely risk is risk is risk.

Edit. All numbers are euros. This micky mouse new forum won't show euro symbol for me. It does when writing the post.

Bongalongherb

This representative 'Michael' is just throwing policy after policy with no real answers or substance to the questions put forth.

I wonder how may folk out there are in the same position as I am having to sell or scrap my NCT'd 16 year old 1.3 mitsubishi colt because of a 100% rise in my insurance of which I just cannot afford or would even entertain the idea of paying. I'm sure there are many folk that have no choice now but to sell their motor vehicle.

And still nothing from government on this obscene rip-off from all insurance companies.

Special Circumstances

Relatively speaking 100% is pretty considerate bongalongaherb, my fictional engineer is surely looking at 500 - 700%.... that's just brutality like.

God help any foreign companies trying to get engineers into the country if the ones with 9years perfect driving are being given PFO quotes.

csm

Hellrazer wrote: »

Liberty Insurance: Michael wrote: »

Hi,


Yes age of vehicle is a factor that we take in to account (one of many). The reason for this is that insurers set their prices based on their own particular experience.


Different insurers may have had different results and some insurers do not quote for vehicles over 10 years old as a direct result of their own experience.

I would also suggest that you look at cover options when seeking your next quote i.e. third party fire and theft v's comprehensive options and you may also have the option to remove some additional covers if you wish i.e. breakdown and windscreen cover which may help you reduce the cost


Regards,

Michael.

But I specifically asked how a registration date of 2 weeks difference can deem a car less safe than another car ie car registered in December 2001 and a Car registered in January 2002--one is classed as 15 years old and one is classed as 14 years old.A car two weeks older than another one cant be 50% less safe.
Exact same car,same driver.
Nothing changed except the registration of the vehicle yet the premium is 50% more expensive.

Makes no sense at all.And is penalising drivers for a ridiculous reason.

I would imagine that the loadings that are applied for various factors are not continuous functions, but have step changes in them. An actuary will analyse the relevant data and determine that insuring cars over 15 years old is less profitable, unless they apply a 50% loading to them. I'm sure they could, if they wanted to, apply some sort of function so that the loading increased linearly with the age of the car, which would avoid the situation you have found, but it would probably not be any more profitable for them so why would they bother.

Insurers are not in the game to provide fairness to consumers, they are there to make money. Previously they did this mostly by investing premiums, but now the world has really low interest rates so that can't make a heap of the investments. They now need to make profit by ensuring premiums are greater than claims. Reducing claim amounts is hard. Increasing premiums in a market like Ireland's is easier.

I agree, terrible thread.

Special Circumstances

Liberty HQ and Boards AMA team be like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXgqgxu7bWo

"Abort Abort Abort!"

bmwguy

AMAA. Ask me almost anything

Can you get me a quote there Michael please make yourself a bit useful.


35, 2004 BMW 525i petrol. Never crashed a car in my life. Not worth stealing and its securely locked away. No points. Love the car look after it well. Drive it about 20 miles a day. Live in south Dublin. Accountant. Licence 9+ years, driving 9+ years, 5 years no claims bonus I typed in.

Renewal is up next month, 4th anniversary of buying the car.

Edit: I got quoted 1204 3rd party fire and theft online from liberty.

Please feel free to compare your quotes lads to see why they are loading you.

geotrig

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Relatively speaking 100% is pretty considerate bongalongaherb, my fictional engineer is surely looking at 500 - 700%.... that's just brutality like.

God help any foreign companies trying to get engineers into the country if the ones with 9years perfect driving are being given PFO quotes.

liberty or whoever it was quoted your fictional engineer are only trying to support the irish economy ,without poor "micheal the engineer" getting a ridiculous quote he would never show the ambition to develop some other form of transport that kicks starts everything here , liberty* thinking of future ireland !

Dav

OK, that's enough...

If people think Michael can actually tell you the specifics of the calculations they use to determine policy pricing etc then you should probably step away from the keyboard because that'll never, ever happen.

Relax.

Let the man answer your questions as best as he can and stop harassing him.

I don't want to start deleting posts and banning people, but I will if the harassment continues.

Special Circumstances

Ah now, "ridiculous quote" implies there's no rhyme or reason to. That's very cynical to assume insurers are making these things up outta nowhere.

Michael the rep will be along shortly to explain why somebody in a desk job, with a perfect driving record and a laughably underpowered 9year old car is so undesirable to Liberty.

There's surely one dominant factor here, or are all desk jockeys with modest cars etc looking at 1.6k-3k quotes from Liberty????#

EDIT !!!! typed at the same time as mod, didn't see warning til I clicked post.!!!!


Nobody is asking for specific algorithms or trade secrets.
A fictional engineer is asking for the "dominant" factor in what I'm sure is a very complicated multi-factor equation. Telling him what the dominant factor in what looks like an otherwise ideal customer is not gonna blow the roof off the industry.

Special Circumstances

Avien wrote: »

Easy – Electrical & Electronic engineers are more likely to be travelling & doing more kms than Applications & Computer Engineers.

Additionally the former two are more likely to have expensive tools which are a target for break-ins/theft from vehicle (tools wont be covered obviously, but the damage to the car is) and they are more likely to have other tradespeople in their vehicle on a regular basis... The tools bit is more likely on vans granted... All of this means that the former two are more likely to be involved in a claim that the latter two who spend their days at home or in an office commuting generally by themselves, with maybe a laptop, which they probably aren't going to leave in the vehicle.

You don't know many electronic engineers do you?

Are you thinking of some kind of mobile technician?

Or a satellite dish installer or something?

95% of all ACTUAL Electronic engineers work at a desk, or in a lab. The employer owns the tools, there isn't a whole of engineers with mobile equipment.

geotrig

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You don't know many electronic engineers do you?

Are you thinking of some kind of mobile technician?

Or a satellite dish installer or something?

95% of all ACTUAL Electronic engineers work at a desk, or in a lab. The employer owns the tools, there isn't a whole of engineers with mobile equipment.

as above and its a private policy ! by that thought the software guys could carry loads of expensive laptops etc and be on call for work places etc !

think im after screwing the cheap insurance for the software guys


anyway back to the topic

Michael , do you think we need could benefit for visable insurance groups here like in the uk ?

Avien

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You don't know many electronic engineers do you?

Are you thinking of some kind of mobile technician?

Or a satellite dish installer or something?

95% of all ACTUAL Electronic engineers work at a desk, or in a lab. The employer owns the tools, there isn't a whole of engineers with mobile equipment.

Guilty as charged

Special Circumstances

geotrig wrote: »

Michael , do you think we need could benefit for visable insurance groups here like in the uk ?

Question seconded.