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M11/N11 - M50 (J4) to Coyne's Cross (J14) [options published]

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  • Options
    #752
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    schmittel wrote: »
    I could understand Covid causing some delays in March/April/May but you'd wonder what sort of delays Covid could could have caused since June.

    i.e if they said announcement was imminent 10 weeks ago, it has not suddenly become no where near close because of Covid. it must be something else.

    Change of policy from the new government which was formed 10 weeks ago?

    I could hazard a guess: Eamon 'Eco Warrior' Ryan


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    #753
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    I could hazard a guess: Eamon 'Eco Warrior' Ryan

    It's a tricky one for the greens. They cannot be seen to support building a brand new motorway when an existing road could be widened, but equally they cannot be seen to support widening an existing road in a forest full of ancient native oak protected by law.

    Good luck squaring that circle!


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    #754
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    schmittel wrote: »
    It's a tricky one for the greens. They cannot be seen to support building a brand new motorway when an existing road could be widened, but equally they cannot be seen to support widening an existing road in a forest full of ancient native oak protected by law.

    Good luck squaring that circle!

    The same Oaks Eamon and his pals built tree houses in and lived the life of Tarzan in during the 'Eco Warrior' debacle in the early naughties. It could easily be personal for him too.


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    #755
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    The same Oaks Eamon and his pals built tree houses in and lived the life of Tarzan in during the 'Eco Warrior' debacle in the early naughties. It could easily be personal for him too.

    Those eco warriors came from England over to 'Kill Mack a noag' to save the planet and the oak trees in the Glen of the Downs.

    No Green Party involvement at all.


  • Options
    #756
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Those eco warriors came from England over to 'Kill Mack a noag' to save the planet and the oak trees in the Glen of the Downs.

    No Green Party involvement at all.

    Didn't they end up damaging quite a few of the trees, ironically?


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    #757
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    BelfastVanMan wrote: »
    Didn't they end up damaging quite a few of the trees, ironically?

    Well, yes, but they did save the planet - sort of - but that is an ongoing project.

    The speed limits imposed as a result of the protest have mostly been removed.


  • Options
    #758
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Well, yes, but they did save the planet - sort of - but that is an ongoing project.

    The speed limits imposed as a result of the protest have mostly been removed.

    It's still a 100km/h limit through GOTD, though, isn't it?


  • Options
    #759
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    BelfastVanMan wrote: »
    It's still a 100km/h limit through GOTD, though, isn't it?

    A few stretches are 80 km/h, but the vast majority are 100 km/h.

    Current road works restriction in Killmac are 60 km/s.


  • Options
    #760
    p_haugh
    Registered Users Posts: 1,135 ✭✭✭p_haugh


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Current road works restriction in Killmac are 60 km/s.

    Must be going mighty fast if its 60km per second! ..../s


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    #761
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,422 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    p_haugh wrote: »
    Must be going mighty fast if its 60km per second! ..../s

    Oooooops. 60 Km/h.

    Plenty of drivers not keeping to the posted speed limit - maybe they think its per second.


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    #762
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Oooooops. 60 Km/h.

    Plenty of drivers not keeping to the posted speed limit - maybe they think its per second.

    Yeah, you'd think that, alright. :-D


  • Options
    #763
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    BelfastVanMan wrote: »
    Didn't they end up damaging quite a few of the trees, ironically?

    Someone brings this up every time! I presume the trees recovered and grew back? Doesn't sound like a big deal.


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    #764
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Someone brings this up every time! I presume the trees recovered and grew back? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

    I imagine the only ones that didn't grow back were those occupying lane 1 + the hard shoulder in both directions.


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    #765
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭hometruths


    For all the criticism the ecowarriors got, dismissed as work shy loons etc, their practical objections have been proven totally right in time.

    i.e the long term strategy for the road was badly thought out, what's the point of widening the road now, when in 20 years time it will be needed to widened again?


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    #766
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    schmittel wrote: »
    For all the criticism the ecowarriors got, dismissed as work shy loons etc, their practical objections have been proven totally right in time.

    i.e the long term strategy for the road was badly thought out, what's the point of widening the road now, when in 20 years time it will be needed to widened again?

    But it wasn't wide enough when it should have been done right....

    Biggest traffic issues out of Dublin is the speed restrictions, fuel station and cars using one or two exits...


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    #767
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,149 ✭✭✭prunudo


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Someone brings this up every time! I presume the trees recovered and grew back? Doesn't sound like a big deal.

    Still ropes stuck up in some of the trees all these years later.


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    #768
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    prunudo wrote: »
    Still ropes stuck up in some of the trees all these years later.

    All their waste human and plastics and other objects left behind also.., these types don't like cleaning up after themselves and also go on about saving the planet but use vehicles, products from the oil industry etc etc....


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    #769
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    punisher5112 wrote: »

    Biggest traffic issues out of Dublin is the speed restrictions, fuel station and cars using one or two exits...

    Lower speeds (variable speed limits at rush hour) would likely improve the traffic situation.


  • Options
    #770
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    donvito99 wrote: »
    Lower speeds (variable speed limits at rush hour) would likely improve the traffic situation.

    Yes but not as it is....
    You would need people to obey also.


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    #771
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭hometruths


    punisher5112 wrote: »
    But it wasn't wide enough when it should have been done right....

    Biggest traffic issues out of Dublin is the speed restrictions, fuel station and cars using one or two exits...

    That's the councils fault not the protestors. WCC position at the time was that they were doing it right.


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    #772
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    schmittel wrote: »
    That's the councils fault not the protestors. WCC position at the time was that they were doing it right.

    Hard shoulder doesn't take a car, cyclists use it and it's not safe.


  • Options
    #773
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,149 ✭✭✭prunudo


    schmittel wrote: »
    That's the councils fault not the protestors. WCC position at the time was that they were doing it right.

    The original design was/is a shambles, between the lolo junctions, the Kilmac garages, narrow lanes in the Glen and the fact there is absolutely no scope for additional capacity, whether that be for general traffic or bus lanes.


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    #774
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭hometruths


    prunudo wrote: »
    The original design was/is a shambles, between the lolo junctions, the Kilmac garages, narrow lanes in the Glen and the fact there is absolutely no scope for additional capacity, whether that be for general traffic or bus lanes.

    I'm not disputing the fact it was a shambles, indeed that was the protesters point. WCC maintained it was spot on.


  • Options
    #775
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,813 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    it's was an online upgrade of an existing SC road in a constrained corridor, it was never likely to be an arrow straight 3-lane motorway. The same constrictions are there today.

    Regarding speed limits through the Glen - it's 100km/h northbound and there's a short stretch entering the Glen southbound that's 80km/h. My recollection from the time was that the road contractors claimed the design was safe for 100km/h in both directions but the council decided on the lower limit because there were concerns about the entrance to the forest car park (which should have been moved to back to the Glenview junction IMO, but they probably didn't want to cut down any more trees).


  • Options
    #776
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,149 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Regarding the Glen car park, building a new car park at the back of the woods and entrance to the existing jn9 would definitely be a solution to over coming the dangers of current entrance.
    Might be something that could be looked at seperately from the overall project.


  • Options
    #777
    Reuben1210
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Reuben1210


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    Those eco warriors came from England over to 'Kill Mack a noag' to save the planet and the oak trees in the Glen of the Downs.

    No Green Party involvement at all.

    Ryan himself claimed it!

    This needs to be borne in mind too....unless they are arm wresltled à la M20, this won't progress much further..

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/greens-in-government-would-cancel-n11-m11-road-upgrade-1.4091282


  • Options
    #778
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 5,802 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Reuben1210 wrote: »
    Eamon Ryan was one of the eco warriors and I don't think he came from England!

    Are you sure about that? (his ecowarrior credentials rather than his nationality!)

    The ecowarrior alumni are skeptical of his claims to have been one of the protestors in the 1990s.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/730355890403579/?post_id=2258478964257923


  • Options
    #779
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    donvito99 wrote: »
    I imagine the only ones that didn't grow back were those occupying lane 1 + the hard shoulder in both directions.

    I read somewhere that there were only 70 trees removed.

    You know in a given year, in a city like e.g. Dublin, large numbers of old trees are cut down and new ones planted? This is just part of the life cycle of trees.

    70 trees in a forest the size of the Glen is nothing. I'm sure the wildlife was in from the edge a bit anyway.
    prunudo wrote: »
    Still ropes stuck up in some of the trees all these years later.
    Ropes don't damage trees.


  • Options
    #780
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,149 ✭✭✭prunudo


    spacetweek wrote: »


    Ropes don't damage trees.

    Bar restricting growth, damaging cambium and being unsightly and generally being litter. Yeah they don't damage trees.


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    #781
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I read somewhere that there were only 70 trees removed.

    You know in a given year, in a city like e.g. Dublin, large numbers of old trees are cut down and new ones planted? This is just part of the life cycle of trees.

    70 trees in a forest the size of the Glen is nothing. I'm sure the wildlife was in from the edge a bit anyway.

    My point was that the protesters did less harm - to trees or anything else ecological - than the actual road.


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