Bans on handclapping and hugs

A school in Sydney has banned clapping at assemblies in favour of "silent cheering", "excited faces", "punching the air", and "wriggle about on the spot"

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-36842731

"The practice has been adopted to respect members of our school community who are sensitive to noise".

It's ot just the kiddies who are sensitive to clapping. In the UK, National Union of Students has demanded that clapping be replaced by 'jazz hands', as clapping can 'trigger anxiety'.

The NUS Women's Campaign tweeted: "Some delegates are requesting that we move to jazz hands rather than clapping, as it's triggering anxiety. Please be mindful!"

It isn't just clapping that these sensitive souls can't bear.

An Australian school banned hugging earlier this year, because it amounts to an invasion of personal space. They suggested that students high-five one another instead.

But what if a noisy high-five triggers someone's anxiety?

Is this real life? Is it an elaborate wind-up? There is no justification for this carry-on.

What are the chances the same children are exposed to far greater dangers like obesity, and over-exposure to computer screens, and these are seen as somehow more acceptable hazards.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000

Pack of fannys.

spurious

Perhaps they have an autism unit in the school. Some kids with autism are very sensitive to noise.

GLaDOS

"wriggle about on the spot"

Some poor kid is going to having a seizure and everyone is just gonna think he's really enthusiastic about the assembly.

20Cent

Calm down all there has been an addition to the article.


Correction: This story was amended on 22 July to clarify that the policy was brought in because of a teacher's condition and applied to assemblies only.

Smondie

The sale of cotton wool is at an all time high.

eviltwin

spurious wrote: »

Perhaps they have an autism unit in the school. Some kids with autism are very sensitive to noise.

My son has autism, he's very sensitive to loud noise. He's in a mainstream school. It's noisy. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but he just has to learn to deal with it. He has to find his own way of coping in the world without expecting everyone to change for him. There is no need to ban clapping or anything else, find ways of supporting affected students etc but the world can't, and shouldn't, change.

The Backwards Man

We've had to travel a long way for the daily outraged at something that in all actuality doesn't affect my life in any way whatsoever but I'm going to rant about it anyway thread, haven't we?

Yellow pack crisps

Oi teachers, leave those kids alone.

spurious

spurious wrote: »

Perhaps they have an autism unit in the school. Some kids with autism are very sensitive to noise.

Human civilisation has been around for about 200,000 years; it's not suddenly going to switch to mute. Loud noises are an inevitable part of life on earth.

The NSU women's meeting referenced 'anxiety' as a reason, nobody mentioned autism.

The Backwards Man wrote: »

We've had to travel a long way for the daily outraged at something that in all actuality doesn't affect my life in any way whatsoever but I'm going to rant about it anyway thread, haven't we?

But this is a message board, not a counselling session. We're here to talk about things like news items, changing attitudes, social policies, and so on; not just things that have a deep personal impact on ourselves.

It's not an 'outrage' it's just a pretty daft trend in attitudes, in my view.

RoyalMarine

eviltwin wrote: »

My son has autism, he's very sensitive to loud noise. He's in a mainstream school. It's noisy. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but he just has to learn to deal with it. He has to find his own way of coping in the world without expecting everyone to change for him. There is no need to ban clapping or anything else, find ways of supporting affected students etc but the world can't, and shouldn't, change.

You have a positive and good approach to your son's illness. Good for you.
This whole bull**** of wrapping in cotton woll is crazy and going to extreme lengths.

Making these stupid rules would only make the kids feel awkward. They are normal kids with illnesses. Treat them normally and they will grow up with a similar attitude.

Smondie

20Cent wrote: »

Calm down all there has been an addition to the article.


Correction: This story was amended on 22 July to clarify that the policy was brought in because of a teacher's condition and applied to assemblies only.

Was the teacher hugging students?

spurious

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Human civilisation has been around for about 200,000 years; it's not suddenly going to switch to mute. Loud noises are an inevitable part of life on earth.

The NSU women's meeting referenced 'anxiety' as a reason, nobody mentioned autism.

I never said anyone mentioned autism, I simply suggested a possible reason for the decision. It has been clarified further up the thread anyway.

It seems peculiar to sacrifice the joys of the many for the benefit of one ...

20Cent

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It seems peculiar to sacrifice the joys of the many for the benefit of one ...

The joy of clapping?
Maybe it causes this teacher headaches or other symptoms why not accommodate him/her for the assemblies?

SEPT 23 1989

RoyalMarine wrote: »

You have a positive and good approach to your son's illness. Good for you.
This whole bull**** of wrapping in cotton woll is crazy and going to extreme lengths.

Making these stupid rules would only make the kids feel awkward. They are normal kids with illnesses. Treat them normally and they will grow up with a similar attitude.

You are right but it's not an illness

Ted111

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Human civilisation has been around for about 200,000 years

I just wish people paid attention in school.

gramar

eviltwin wrote: »

My son has autism, he's very sensitive to loud noise. He's in a mainstream school. It's noisy. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but he just has to learn to deal with it. He has to find his own way of coping in the world without expecting everyone to change for him. There is no need to ban clapping or anything else, find ways of supporting affected students etc but the world can't, and shouldn't, change.

Your attitude is loaded with way too much common sense for modern society.

Keane2baMused

eviltwin wrote: »

My son has autism, he's very sensitive to loud noise. He's in a mainstream school. It's noisy. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but he just has to learn to deal with it. He has to find his own way of coping in the world without expecting everyone to change for him. There is no need to ban clapping or anything else, find ways of supporting affected students etc but the world can't, and shouldn't, change.

Agreed. It can be really difficult for my son sometimes as there is a lot of noise at school. After 3 years he can manage much better, however his SNA would know if he's getting overwhelmed and would bring him for a walk or to the library away from all the noise.

Some things I believe the world needs to adapt but generally, we just need to find ways to adapt to the world.

Yawns

Ted111 wrote: »

I just wish people paid attention in school.

He was too busy clapping and hugging

donegal.

Ted111 wrote: »

I just wish people paid attention in school.

sure how could you hear anything with all that racket going on

eviltwin

Keane2baMused wrote: »

Agreed. It can be really difficult for my son sometimes as there is a lot of noise at school. After 3 years he can manage much better, however his SNA is still and would no if he's getting overwhelmed and would bring him for a walk or to the library away from all the noise.

Some things I believe the world needs to adapt but generally, we just need to find ways to adapt to the world.

I think the world needs to understand. That would be enough for me. I don't expect anyone to modify their behaviour to the needs of my son but if he has a meltdown it would be enough if people didn't make it worse by passing judgment or making a snarky comment.

Pro Hoc Vice

While kids always had sensory issues and conditions like Autisum it is only recently we are getting to understand such conditions. When you meet a kid with such problems you can understand the hell unexpected noise and touching can be. School like home must be a safe environment to all kids and while some of these ideas may seem weird they may just mike a few kids lives a little easier without harming others.

Duggy747

Handclapping is very dangerous, I suggest bubblewrap gloves!

Fleawuss

The silent disco is upon us, the silent busker has joined it, soon we will be able to have noise cancelling headphones to get through life: activate anti SJW mode, activate anti Islamophobic mode, activate anti Mexican mode and on and on. Oh the ignore button solves all life's ills. La La La La LA la...I can't hear you.

Junkyard Tom

Well, I believe that the children are our future. We should teach them well and let them lead the way. We need to show them all the beauty they possess inside, give them a sense of pride to make it easier. For goodness sake let the children's laughter remind us of how we used to be.

20Cent

If you could make someone's life a little more comfortable by modifying your behaviour when they are around why not do it?
Guy I know can't stand fluorescent lighting. We turn it off if he's around no big deal. No need to be a dick.

biko

A bunch of facking poofters, Bruce!


This is coming from the "safe space cadets" at Yale and Brown that moved from clapping to finger snapping as regular clapping can be 'triggering'

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

The joy of clapping?

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the idea of the 'joy' of clapping, but applause does generate its own enthusiasm. Imagine being at a Bruce Springsteen concert where the audience sit there, deadpan, for fear of triggering the anxiety of some Students Union delegate.

Applause is weird, I know. An alien from outer space would struggle to understand this seal-like behaviour. But it is a way of expressing a feeling of joy and togetherness.

Togetherness is a concept that appears to be consistently diminished by the rise of individualism in society, I think some of the examples in the OP are small illustrations of that.

Ted111 wrote: »

I just wish people paid attention in school.

Sigh. 'Human beings', then, Ted. Homo sapiens, who probably wore clothes, and may have clapped.

jmayo

20Cent wrote: »

Calm down all there has been an addition to the article.


Correction: This story was amended on 22 July to clarify that the policy was brought in because of a teacher's condition and applied to assemblies only.

If we found out a teacher at our school suffered from that, rather than be schizophrenic psychotic like a few of them, we would have shouted, clapped, stamped and cheered to our hearts content.

eviltwin wrote: »

My son has autism, he's very sensitive to loud noise. He's in a mainstream school. It's noisy. I'll probably be flamed for saying this but he just has to learn to deal with it. He has to find his own way of coping in the world without expecting everyone to change for him. There is no need to ban clapping or anything else, find ways of supporting affected students etc but the world can't, and shouldn't, change.

I congratulate you and your son.

Akrasia

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

While kids always had sensory issues and conditions like Autisum it is only recently we are getting to understand such conditions. When you meet a kid with such problems you can understand the hell unexpected noise and touching can be. School like home must be a safe environment to all kids and while some of these ideas may seem weird they may just mike a few kids lives a little easier without harming others.

Where is the line though?

If a kid or teacher is sensitive to bright lights, should the assemblies be held in a dimly lit room?

If there are children in wheelchairs, should all excursions into the countryside or wheelchair inaccessible places be banned?

If someone is sensitive to loud noises, it is something he/she needs to figure out a way of dealing with it because loud noises are a part of life.

I have a cousin who is profoundly disabled and she gets really anxious in unfamiliar places and where there is commotion or even just a few people in a room talking a little bit too loud. It's awful for her and her family because these sensitivities limit her options for what she can do, and it limits her families options, but those are the cards they were dealt. It would be ridiculous to expect everyone else to accommodate her very specific and intensive needs all of the time.

If you're suffering from hypersensitivity then perhaps your best option is to avoid places that over stimulate you as much as you can while pursuing cognitive behavioural therapy to tackle the root cause of the anxiety or train coping mechanisms to reduce the consequences of the sensitivity to something that is more tolerable, or maybe lifestyle changes to reduce the exposure to triggers of anxiety.

riffmongous

High fives instead of hugs has pretty much always been the case for irish lads anyway

the groutch

getting closer and closer to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvLHliGCcGU

Akrasia

20Cent wrote: »

If you could make someone's life a little more comfortable by modifying your behaviour when they are around why not do it?
Guy I know can't stand fluorescent lighting. We turn it off if he's around no big deal. No need to be a dick.

You stand around in the dark?

Patrick_Swayze

I remember when I was in my final year of school (2/3 years ago) and I was with a good girl friend and I was telling a story about how I put my arm around someone, so I showed her by putting my arm over her shoulder. I had hardly put a finger on her before a nearby principal shouts at us to come to him. I was puzzled as to what I had done wrong but she knew straight away as she had been reprimanded in the past when hugging boyfriends etc.
The principal said no public displays of affection or invading of someone personal space is allowed. I started to laugh as I thought it was a joke, like seriously, all i had done was put my arm on her shoulder for gods sake I was hardly feeling her up and it was 'consensual' as she asked me to show her what I did in the story I was explaining to her. She wasn't cringing or showing any signs that this was wrong
I still can't get over it tbh, worlds gone mad

eviltwin

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

While kids always had sensory issues and conditions like Autisum it is only recently we are getting to understand such conditions. When you meet a kid with such problems you can understand the hell unexpected noise and touching can be. School like home must be a safe environment to all kids and while some of these ideas may seem weird they may just mike a few kids lives a little easier without harming others.

Kids have to be kids though and part of that is noise and activity and horseplay. If a child has a special need so severe it would involve completely altering the school environment then maybe that child's needs would be best met elsewhere.

20Cent

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily agree with the idea of the 'joy' of clapping, but applause does generate its own enthusiasm. Imagine being at a Bruce Springsteen concert where the audience sit there, deadpan, for fear of triggering the anxiety of some Students Union delegate.

Applause is weird, I know. An alien from outer space would struggle to understand this seal-like behaviour. But it is a way of expressing a feeling of joy and togetherness.

Togetherness is a concept that appears to be consistently diminished by the rise of individualism in society, I think some of the examples in the OP are small illustrations of that.

It's one instance in one school designed to accommodate a member of staff. Doubt the principle of this school has the power to ban clapping worldwide. I'm sure the kids won't be permanently affected by it.

Akrasia

Fleawuss wrote: »

The silent disco is upon us, the silent busker has joined it, soon we will be able to have noise cancelling headphones to get through life: activate anti SJW mode, activate anti Islamophobic mode, activate anti Mexican mode and on and on. Oh the ignore button solves all life's ills. La La La La LA la...I can't hear you.

This is becoming a problem with personally curated media sources like twitter or facebook, or newsfeeds that remember what stories you liked before, and only delivers stories to you that it knows you will agree with

If I get my news from twitter, but I only subscribe to racist fringe news sources, then I am going to get more and more entrenched into my racist world view.

Similarly with 'social justice warriors', they block people who they label as racist or misogynistic or homophobic or intolerant or whatever thought crimes they're accused of.

They then get trapped in a bubble where their own view is echoed back towards them and amplified. Now that they've graduated from college and are getting jobs in the media and universities and political parties, they're taking these bubble crafted views and using them to draft policies that force others into their echo chamber by silencing the voices of those they disagree with.

Pro Hoc Vice

Akrasia wrote: »

Where is the line though?

If a kid or teacher is sensitive to bright lights, should the assemblies be held in a dimly lit room?

If there are children in wheelchairs, should all excursions into the countryside or wheelchair inaccessible places be banned?

If someone is sensitive to loud noises, it is something he/she needs to figure out a way of dealing with it because loud noises are a part of life.

I have a cousin who is profoundly disabled and she gets really anxious in unfamiliar places and where there is commotion or even just a few people in a room talking a little bit too loud. It's awful for her and her family because these sensitivities limit her options for what she can do, and it limits her families options, but those are the cards they were dealt. It would be ridiculous to expect everyone else to accommodate her very specific and intensive needs all of the time.

If you're suffering from hypersensitivity then perhaps your best option is to avoid places that over stimulate you as much as you can while pursuing cognitive behavioural therapy to tackle the root cause of the anxiety or train coping mechanisms to reduce the consequences of the sensitivity to something that is more tolerable, or maybe lifestyle changes to reduce the exposure to triggers of anxiety.

I did say without harm to others. I see nothing wrong with a school being aware and have systems in place for kids with issues. I see noting wrong with trying to accommodate as much as can be problems other kids have in the school environment.

As you asked me a stupid question about kids with wheelchairs Ill ask you a equally stupid question why do you think its ok for school kids to actually inflict pain on a kid and do nothing to ease it. This is not about removing all issues wrap a child in a bubble, but where it can be done with no issue to other kids why not. It also makes kids aware of these issues that other kids may be having to deal with, while the primary responsibility lays with the parents to help the child cope whats the harm in other kids being aware and doing a little to make school that bit nicer, or is that being a bit to kind.

20Cent

20Cent wrote: »

It's one instance in one school designed to accommodate a member of staff. .

There are a number of instances of it happening. As I mentioned in the OP, it also arises at meetings of the National Union of Students in the UK.

"Jazz hands are used throughout NUS in place of clapping as a way to show appreciation of someone's point without interrupting or causing disturbance, as it can create anxiety.

Perhaps boards should change its 'thanks' icon to a jazz hands. I find the erect thumb to be triggering & is a manifestation of patriarchal dominance.

Doubt the principle of this school has the power to ban clapping worldwide. I'm sure the kids won't be permanently affected by it.

Nobody suggested either of these things so I've no idea why you're countering an unmade claim.

Pro Hoc Vice

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There are a number of instances of it happening. As I mentioned in the OP, it also arises at meetings of the National Union of Students in the UK.



Perhaps boards should change its 'thanks' icon to a jazz hands. I find the erect thumb to be triggering & is a manifestation of patriarchal dominance.

Nobody suggested either of these things so I've no idea why you're countering an unmade claim.

http://oxfordstudent.com/2015/03/25/jazz-hands-clapping-twitter-trolls-the-unsuccessful-derailing-of-nus-womens-conference/

It was and is a request in some conferences where some attending may feel it helps. While its called jazz hands it is in fact the sign for applause in British Sign Language.

20Cent

Akrasia wrote: »

This is becoming a problem with personally curated media sources like twitter or facebook, or newsfeeds that remember what stories you liked before, and only delivers stories to you that it knows you will agree with

If I get my news from twitter, but I only subscribe to racist fringe news sources, then I am going to get more and more entrenched into my racist world view.

Similarly with 'social justice warriors', they block people who they label as racist or misogynistic or homophobic or intolerant or whatever thought crimes they're accused of.

They then get trapped in a bubble where their own view is echoed back towards them and amplified. Now that they've graduated from college and are getting jobs in the media and universities and political parties, they're taking these bubble crafted views and using them to draft policies that force others into their echo chamber by silencing the voices of those they disagree with.

Similarly if your newsfeed is full of stories like the op's then the world is full of moaning snowflakes taking yer freedoms away.

Agree about the filter bubble. Think it's responsible for trump.

razorblunt

My God I laughed unashamedly at "jazz hands", I was not expecting that.
I'm at work too.

I'll never look at Chicago the same way again.

alchemist33

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

An Australian school banned hugging earlier this year, because it amounts to an invasion of personal space. They suggested that students high-five one another instead.

FFS. Don't they realise that's cultural appropriation?!? :mad:

freshpopcorn

What happens to the kids who can't cope with an assembly without clapping it's not fair on them!

Your Face

'Wriggle about on the spot'
Thats creepy.

RayCon

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Well, I believe that the children are our future. We should teach them well and let them lead the way. We need to show them all the beauty they possess inside, give them a sense of pride to make it easier. For goodness sake let the children's laughter remind us of how we used to be.

That's beautiful .... go up and run yourself a bath and I'll bring you up some crack.

Call Me Jimmy

All aboard the Dystopia Train!

riffmongous

Your Face wrote: »

'Wriggle about on the spot'
Thats creepy.

Disturbing

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfpt77F3Qh1qbj46wo1_r2_500.gif

Your Face

riffmongous wrote: »

Disturbing

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfpt77F3Qh1qbj46wo1_r2_500.gif

Now its creepy and fun.
Freepy.

riffmongous

riffmongous wrote: »

High fives instead of hugs has pretty much always been the case for irish lads anyway

I find it uncomfortable when someone high-fives me in a non-ironic way.

I remember once, in work, having an exchange of what is commonly referred to as 'banter' (taking the piss, in my day), when a 'right-on' milennial 'bro' leaned across the lunch table and high-fived me. We could only have looked more lame if we chestbumped each other.

Couldn't be having it. A pat on the back, a hug, or a vicious verbal put-down has always been the Irish way of saying 'well done'.