I'm 20 and bought an ae86, what's the best way to insure it?

Timmyr

millington wrote: »

OP when are you going to show us the car

X2

shietpilot

Shtandard twincam driver

ianobrien

So, as far as I can see it. The OP buys dream car but:

Realises he can't get insurance (comprehensive or Third Party) under his own name.


Realises he can't get insurance (comprehensive or Third Party) as a named driver on the car if someone else insures it (Fronting)

Cops on to the third party extension given to policy holders (but some have age limits, I remember I didn't get it on my insurance until I was 25).

No mention of if he was planning on mentioning the mods to the insurance company (a LOT of companies run when they hear that word)

Thinks that if he "sells" the car to a family member, they insure it and he uses his third party extension to drive, all's hunky dory.

Now, whenever he drives the car he worked hard for, it has no comprehensive insurance and is on shaky ground with Utmost Good Faith. He also hasn't checked if the insurance company will give him third party extension.

OP, it's time you realise at best you won't have fully comp when you drive the car, at worst it's insurance fraud (You won't find out unless you have an accident, even one that's not your fault). What I'd be doing if the tin can is as good as you say is put it in storage and begin a mild restoration. That will take a few years, the years you can't get insurance, and at the end you have a much better car you can drive 100℅ legally. If you turn the car back to 100% stock, it'll be worth more. If your boodlit is solid and rust free, you struck it lucky

millington

ianobrien wrote: »

If you turn the car back to 100% stock, it'll be worth more.

Definitely not true when it comes to Jap 86s unless you go to concours original condition which would cost more than the proposed increase in value.

Also, he has checked and knows Aviva & Liberty both offer third party extension.

peteb2

Timmyr you are 100 percent wrong! The subject matter of the insurance policy is the vehicle! No car = no insurance policy.

You can't take out a motor policy in someone's name with no car covered. Therefore you do not insure the driver. You insure his use of the insured vehicle.

Mycroft H

See this is the issue. While it's technically legal and all that, it wouldn't take much for a competent claims investigator to put two and two together. They could either void the policy or put restrictions on it. Legal or not legal.

And then you'll find it hard to get insurance again

the_syco

Timmyr wrote: »

A second problem is the lack of a valid insurance disc on the windscreen. I have never had any issues with that

OP please ignore this, of course you can drive it legally

If he hits anyone, no matter how small a scratch, they'll look at his insurance disc, see it's invalid, and the OP suddenly has hell to pay.

If it goes to court, the judge will not only see that he has no insurance displayed on a high risk 1.6 rwd, but that he's actively trying to deceive the system.

OP; you have insurance with another car, yeah? Then get someone to insure the ae86, and drive it 3rd party with the correct disk.

=-=

Have you seen the Initial D anime? If not, watch it! :cool:

Johnoae86

the_syco wrote: »

If he hits anyone, no matter how small a scratch, they'll look at his insurance disc, see it's invalid, and the OP suddenly has hell to pay.

If it goes to court, the judge will not only see that he has no insurance displayed on a high risk 1.6 rwd, but that he's actively trying to deceive the system.

OP; you have insurance with another car, yeah? Then get someone to insure the ae86, and drive it 3rd party with the correct disk.

=-=

Have you seen the Initial D anime? If not, watch it! :cool:

That currently is my plan as I have stated I want to have as much cover as possible even though it will always be risky but car will only be driven once a week so I'm just going to have to be cautious, I'm not left with any other options other than this one so no hate please, I can accept peoples opinion whilst agreeing its not the right way but unfortunately the only option I have, and to be quite honest at 20 years old I could be spending my money in many worse ways, or breaking laws for extreme of fences which I'm not, bottom line is there's plenty of people in this country willing to commit crimes, fraud, robbery etc.. On a daily basis, what I am doing here is simply trying to do what I'm into, its my lively hood, I love cars love working on them day to day as a mechanic is my profession, and follow all motorsports greatly, if its what makes you happy do it, chase your dream, at the end of the day all this insurance business is a money racket in this country and everybody on here that is a car insurer will agree, but we all pay what we owe and are willing to, this situation is just one that unfortunately doesn't allow me to legitimately insure a car I love so I have to take a different route

Kimbot

Johnoae86 wrote: »

That currently is my plan as I have stated I want to have as much cover as possible even though it will always be risky but car will only be driven once a week so I'm just going to have to be cautious, I'm not left with any other options other than this one so no hate please, I can accept peoples opinion whilst agreeing its not the right way but unfortunately the only option I have, and to be quite honest at 20 years old I could be spending my money in many worse ways, or breaking laws for extreme of fences which I'm not, bottom line is there's plenty of people in this country willing to commit crimes, fraud, robbery etc.. On a daily basis, what I am doing here is simply trying to do what I'm into, its my lively hood, I love cars love working on them day to day as a mechanic is my profession, and follow all motorsports greatly, if its what makes you happy do it, chase your dream, at the end of the day all this insurance business is a money racket in this country and everybody on here that is a car insurer will agree, but we all pay what we owe and are willing to, this situation is just one that unfortunately doesn't allow me to legitimately insure a car I love so I have to take a different route

If you are a mechanic can you not avail of trade insurance?

Johnoae86

jonnycivic wrote: »

If you are a mechanic can you not avail of trade insurance?

Trade insurance is 25 unfortunately

FortySeven

the_syco wrote: »

If he hits anyone, no matter how small a scratch, they'll look at his insurance disc, see it's invalid, and the OP suddenly has hell to pay.

If it goes to court, the judge will not only see that he has no insurance displayed on a high risk 1.6 rwd, but that he's actively trying to deceive the system.

OP; you have insurance with another car, yeah? Then get someone to insure the ae86, and drive it 3rd party with the correct disk.

=-=

Have you seen the Initial D anime? If not, watch it! :cool:

A judge would see that he is insured. It wouldn't even get to court. The other driver looking at his disc might wonder until he points out he's driving third party extension.

Judges don't solve crimes. They sentence. They can only sentence people who break the law. Utilising a loophole is not breaking the law.

Henry Ford III

FortySeven wrote: »

A judge would see that he is insured. It wouldn't even get to court. The other driver looking at his disc might wonder until he points out he's driving third party extension.

Judges don't solve crimes. They sentence. They can only sentence people who break the law. Utilising a loophole is not breaking the law.

It'd get to court if the insurer sued. They would easily see that the OP was the owner of the car and then used his mothers name on the log book with the sole intention of using a 3rd party extension.

As I said earlier the name on the log book isn't prima facie proof of ownership.

It's a pretty clearcut deception and a savvy insurer will see through it imho.

millington

Henry Ford III wrote: »

They would easily see that the OP was the owner of the car

How? If I told you someone I was related to owned a car I was driving, you instantly wouldn't believe me?

Henry Ford III

millington wrote: »

How? If I told you someone I was related to owned a car I was driving, you instantly wouldn't believe me?

If,

1/. OP was on the log book as a previous owner.
2/. Mother's name was put on log book to enable 3rd party extension be used.
3/. Mother never insured car. A "non matching" reg no disc (or perhaps no disc) was on the windscreen.

Then any competant Garda or insurance investigator would easily see through the scheme of deception. It's pretty clearcut.

They also most likely know that a 20 year old would not be able to insure that car. They are quite likely be suspicious.

p.s. If someone else proposed for cover on the AE86 (doesn't really matter whom) then they'd be asked were they the owner and main driver. Answering this deliberately incorrectly could/would make that policies status and cover very shaky.

Needles73

millington wrote: »

How? If I told you someone I was related to owned a car I was driving, you instantly wouldn't believe me?

If the op was in an accident and the insurance company was financially exposed to any great degree...what do you think will happen ? They will look for a loop hole not to pay out (if it's a twin cam belonging to your mother, then I wouldn't believe you)

shietpilot

Imagine the situation for example at the next NCT on the 1 litre Corsa/Micra you insure in the event of the crash. The NCT certificates now show mileage for the previous years, they will see you drove 10 miles in the whole year with the main car on the policy and it will be obvious you're using the small car for the TPE.

Henry Ford III

Think of it another way:-

If OP's Mum proposed to insure the car and answered the following questions honestly and fully (as they are required to - uberrima fides):-

1/. Q. Are you the owner of this car? A. My name is on the logbook but my son really owns the car. He bought it and paid for it. He is also a previous owner on the logbook.

2/. Q. Are you the main driver of this car? No. My son is.

What would a reasonable insurer do in those circumstances?

selectamatic

shietpilot wrote: »

Imagine the situation for example at the next NCT on the 1 litre Corsa/Micra you insure in the event of the crash. The NCT certificates now show mileage for the previous years, they will see you drove 10 miles in the whole year with the main car on the policy and it will be obvious you're using the small car for the TPE.

I really don't think anyone will drive an ae86 as their daily driver in Ireland especially as we move towards the seasons of autumn and winter, most if not all are used as weekend cars.

Henry Ford III

Another thought.

Would any insurer offer named driver or open driving on such a car?

If not why not?

millington

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If,

1/. OP was on the log book as a previous owner.And what about it? I've bought and sold cars to family
2/. Mother's name was put on log book to enable 3rd party extension be used. Unless a letter is attached to the logbook when it's sent off to say hes doing this, then how can this be proven?
3/. Mother never insured car. A "non matching" reg no disc (or perhaps no disc) was on the windscreen. Insurance or lack thereof does not prove or disprove ownership

Then any competant Garda or insurance investigator would easily see through the scheme of deception. It's pretty clearcut.

They also most likely know that a 20 year old would not be able to insure that car. They are quite likely be suspicious.

p.s. If someone else proposed for cover on the AE86 (doesn't really matter whom) then they'd be asked were they the owner and main driver. Answering this deliberately incorrectly could/would make that policies status and cover very shaky.

Every argument you use to prove the registered owner doesn't own it, is even more shaky than the reasons used to prove they do.

shietpilot wrote: »

Imagine the situation for example at the next NCT on the 1 litre Corsa/Micra you insure in the event of the crash. The NCT certificates now show mileage for the previous years, they will see you drove 10 miles in the whole year with the main car on the policy and it will be obvious you're using the small car for the TPE.

Irrelevant since as the OP stated, the AE86 is a weekend car and will rarely be driven. Slightly off topic but the odometer also doesn't work in my AE86 which means the milage hasn't changed on NCT certs in years. Must fix that lol

Cienciano

I bought my car off my father, thats illegal according to some people here.

the_syco

FortySeven wrote: »

A judge would see that he is insured. It wouldn't even get to court. The other driver looking at his disc might wonder until he points out he's driving third party extension.

If a Garda saw it, and they'd send the OP a notice for non-display of an insurance disc. Don't think traffic wardens can do anything.

As for the other driver, the other driver would see that the insurance is not for this car, and assume that there the person who hit their car is uninsured. The OP saying that his mammy is insured, and he has 3rd party insurance wouldn't mean squat on the spot.

Personally, if someone crashed into me and the insurance disc details didn't match up with their reg plate, I'd ensure the person would be unable to leave the scene of the crash before the Gardai came.

millington

the_syco wrote: »

Personally, if someone crashed into me and the insurance disc details didn't match up with their reg plate, I'd ensure the person would be unable to leave the scene of the crash before the Gardai came.

To be fair I'd do that even if the disc was correct. As said before on here, disc has no bearing to whether the person is insured.

Liam McPoyle

Cienciano wrote: »

I bought my car off my father, thats illegal according to some people here.

Of course its not illegal!

What people mean is that something out of the ordinary tends to raise alarm bells with insurers.

Whether it's profiling or not, a housewife / older woman suddenly taking out a policy of the type of car the OP has bought is not typical, not by a long shot.

If a claim occurs and something looks a bit suspect you can bet your life they insurer will investigate the ownership as much as is feasible.

If they suspect shenanigans they will withold payment. What the OP has decided to do is something that regularly comes up.

He should be fine so long as he doesn't have to make a claim.

Its dishonest and contravenes utmost good faith but its not illegal as such.

millington

Anyway it wasn't even the OP that suggested to put it in his mothers name in particular which caused all this rigmarole:D

Johnoae86

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If,

1/. OP was on the log book as a previous owner.
2/. Mother's name was put on log book to enable 3rd party extension be used.
3/. Mother never insured car. A "non matching" reg no disc (or perhaps no disc) was on the windscreen.

Then any competant Garda or insurance investigator would easily see through the scheme of deception. It's pretty clearcut.

They also most likely know that a 20 year old would not be able to insure that car. They are quite likely be suspicious.

p.s. If someone else proposed for cover on the AE86 (doesn't really matter whom) then they'd be asked were they the owner and main driver. Answering this deliberately incorrectly could/would make that policies status and cover very shaky.

Quite easily to clock the car if required to bring milage back down

peteb2

Johnoae86 wrote: »

Quite easily to clock the car if required to bring milage back down

And BOOM! now you know why people of your age cant insure their dream cars!

Henry Ford III

Johnoae86 wrote:

Quite easily to clock the car if required to bring milage back down

Deception after deception.

shietpilot

Anyone who thinks they can beat an insurance company has obviously never dealt with an insurance company during a claim. Good luck.

Arcade_Tryer

shietpilot wrote: »

Anyone who thinks they can beat an insurance company has obviously never dealt with an insurance company during a claim. Good luck.

Easy solution to that.

Drive carefully and don't make any claims or have any made against you. Many people have managed to do it their whole lives.