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https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Stop lines at junctions
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I never said its ok to pass a red light. Im saying that they should not enter the box if there is a red light.
You may say that, but the law doesn't.The RSA site would suggest the exact opposite to what you say, in fact their DON'T example is just what you suggest is ok.
No their "don't" example is not what I'm saying, re-read their don't example, it's in relation to blocking cars which may have a right of way (as in the outside lane as per the example), rights of way and yellow box's are separate issues.
If you read the text you will see that they quite rightly say you can't enter a yellow box unless you can exit it, and then they say the "exception" to the rule is when turning right.You must not enter the yellow box junction unless you can clear it without stopping. An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don't enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way.The do example shows someone entering the box intending to turn right when oncoming traffic allows.
The don't example shows a car after turning right into a box that they can't clear without stopping.
Again the example is not about not being able to clear the box, it's about right of way.The exception applies when you want to turn right from the box not into the box.
No the exemption applies to a vehicle which enters the box to turn right, not turning right from within the box, think about it, how can you turn right from the box if you can't enter it in the first place?
The ROR are saying it. Its an offence that carries a fixed charge penalty of 60 euros.
Im open to being convinced that I'm wrong. Have you any links that say its ok?
Forget what the RSA/ROR says, the Gardaí don't prosecute you based on what a guide book says, they prosecute you on the law, the RSA/ROR is not a source of law and it's been shown in the past that the RSA/ROR don't always get everything right or give prime examples of the situations they are explaining.
What people need to realise first is this:-- It is not illegal to stop in a yellow box (exception being railway crossings)
- It is not illegal not to exit a yellow box
- It is illegal to enter a yellow box which you can't clear without stopping, but there is an exemption to that rule for vehicles turning right.
And here's the actual law as per Section 29 of the Road Traffic (Traffic & Parking) Regulations 1997 as amended by the Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2012
Box Junctions
29. (1) Subject to sub-article (2), where traffic sign number RRM 020 (yellow box) is provided on a public road or at a junction between one or more roads or at a junction between one or more roads and a light railway (whether the junctions are controlled by traffic sign number RTS 001, RTS 002, RTS 004 or RTS 013 (traffic lights), or otherwise) and notwithstanding any indication to the contrary that may be given by such traffic signs, a driver of a vehicle shall not enter, either partly or wholly, the cross-hatched area unless the vehicle can clear the area without stopping.
(2) Sub-article (1) does not apply where the driver of a vehicle intending to make a right hand turn at a junction enters the cross-hatched area for that purpose
Yellow box laws are based on entry, not presence of, stopping within or exiting the yellow box, a vehicle intending to turn right which enters a yellow box for the purpose of turning right is exempt.
The vehicle in the picture is entering the yellow box for the purpose of turning right as opposed to left or straight on etc, therefore it is exempt.
As per the law if you legally enter the yellow box for the purpose of turning right you are exempt from the "do not enter unless the exit is clear" rules so you can do so subject to any other rules, namely you must then stop at the red light.0 -
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