Stop lines at junctions

Allinall

RustyNut wrote: »

But where does that leave the never enter a yellow box unless your exit is clear rule?

There are lots of yellow boxes designed specifically to facilitate vehicles to get into a line of traffic where otherwise they would be relying on the goodwill of other drivers to let them in.

Pinch Flat

People in Ireland drive with a lot of impatience, like their life depends on it. I'll regularly see motorists in front of me stop half way across the pedestrian crossing, or plonk right in the bike zone, even at quite roads. Then edge forward while waiting for their light, sometimes protruding right into the junction.

A combination of laziness, impatience and just a basic lack of pride in their driving.

degsie

RustyNut wrote: »

But where does that leave the never enter a yellow box unless your exit is clear rule?

GM228

RustyNut wrote: »

But where does that leave the never enter a yellow box unless your exit is clear rule?

Yellow box rules don't apply to vehicles turning right, (or a vehicle exiting a bus lane).

RustyNut

GM228 wrote: »

Yellow box rules don't apply to vehicles turning right, (or a vehicle exiting a bus lane).

I think you have that wrong. You can enter a box if you intend to turn right not after you turn right.

degsie

Berated a guy today who was straddled across the pedestrian lines at a set of lights. He didn't have a clue what I was on about when I mentioned the stop line. Unreal!

RustyNut

degsie wrote: »

Maybe you might elaborate on the face palm.

PirateShampoo

On the Walkinstown roundabout the general consensus seems to be that half way into the outside lane is where the stop line should be.

RustyNut

PirateShampoo wrote: »

On the Walkinstown roundabout the general consensus seems to be that half way into the outside lane is where the stop line should be.

The only rule at the walkinstown roundabout is that there are no rules. :pac:

GM228

RustyNut wrote: »

I think you have that wrong. You can enter a box if you intend to turn right not after you turn right.

No I'm correct, once you enter a yellow box to turn right or when entering from a bus lane there is no law requiring you to clear the yellow box.

There is however a law requiring you to stop at a red light!

RustyNut

GM228 wrote: »

No I'm correct, once you enter a yellow box to turn right or when entering from a bus lane there is no law requiring you to clear the yellow box.

There is however a law requiring you to stop at a red light!

In this case if the car coming from Merton dr enters the box then stops at the red light he/she is stopped in a yellow box where there is no right turn and possibly obstructing long vehicles turning right from Marlborough road onto Sandford road.

The bottom line is that it's just a very badly designed junction.

GM228

RustyNut wrote: »

In this case if the car coming from Merton dr enters the box then stops at the red light he/she is stopped in a yellow box where there is no right turn and possibly obstructing long vehicles turning right from Marlborough road onto Sandford road.

The bottom line is that it's just a very badly designed junction.

As I'm unsure of the roads you'll have to refer to them as left, right, straight ahead, behind the camera etc

RustyNut

GM228 wrote: »

As I'm unsure of the roads you'll have to refer to them as left, right, straight ahead, behind the camera etc

If the car in degsie's pic turns right then stops at the red light then they are stopped in a junction box with no right turn available and possibly obstructing long vehicles approaching from the road to their left as they sit in the box, from turning right, if that makes sense. Its getting late.:)

degsie

RustyNut wrote: »

Maybe you might elaborate on the face palm.

So in the scenario already discussed, two cars are waiting to turn right from Merton Dr. Lights are red on main road and yellow box is clear. 1st car turns right and stops at pedestrian crossing and is sitting in the yellow box, what does the 2nd car do?

xabi

At the lights in Cork by Mahon Point coming from Mahon we have the opposite problem, the road layout there was changed slightly last year and a new piece of asphalt was laid and the stop line pushed out by about 10 feet. Most drivers now stop at the end of the newly laid asphalt rather than going up to the line. It annoys me more than it should.

whiskeyman

There are many junctions that have the stop line back from the junction / traffic lights to allow for cars (especially buses) turning into that road, due to tight / narrow angles.
It annoying the heck out of me seeing cars cruse over the line and up to the junction, thus blocking the turning angle for cars turning in

xabi

whiskeyman wrote: »

There are many junctions that have the stop line back from the junction / traffic lights to allow for cars (especially buses) turning into that road, due to tight / narrow angles.
It annoying the heck out of me seeing cars cruse over the line and up to the junction, thus blocking the turning angle for cars turning in

That's not the case in my example

RustyNut

degsie wrote: »

So in the scenario already discussed, two cars are waiting to turn right from Merton Dr. Lights are red on main road and yellow box is clear. 1st car turns right and stops at pedestrian crossing and is sitting in the yellow box, what does the 2nd car do?

What makes it ok for the first car to stop in the box? His exit is not clear, he is not intending to turn right. By stopping in the box the car could be causing problems for large vehicles turning right from marlborough road onto sandford road.

My view is that cars turning right from Merton drive should follow the basic rules of the road. In the first instance obey the yield sign when joining the main road followed by don't enter the yellow box unless you can clear it without stopping.

Yellow box rules.

GM228

RustyNut wrote: »

What makes it ok for the first car to stop in the box? His exit is not clear, he is not intending to turn right. By stopping in the box the car could be causing problems for large vehicles turning right from marlborough road onto sandford road.

My view is that cars turning right from Merton drive should follow the basic rules of the road. In the first instance obey the yield sign when joining the main road followed by don't enter the yellow box unless you can clear it without stopping.

Yellow box rules.

And what makes it ok to ignore a red light? That's part of the basic rules of the road also!

Thing is contrary to what people think it isn't illegal to stop in a yellow box!

It's illegal to enter a yellow box which you can't exit and a vehicle turning right is exempt from that rule, the vehicle in the picture enters that yellow box to turn right so it's exempt from the exit requirements, as I said it's not illegal to stop in a yellow box, but it is illegal to break a red light!

RustyNut

GM228 wrote: »

And what makes it ok to ignore a red light?

I never said its ok to pass a red light. Im saying that they should not enter the box if there is a red light.

GM228 wrote: »

It's illegal to enter a yellow box which you can't exit and a vehicle turning right is exempt from that rule,

Can you link to something to back this up? The RSA site would suggest the exact opposite to what you say, in fact their DON'T
example is just what you suggest is ok.

Charles Babbage

RustyNut wrote: »

What makes it ok for the first car to stop in the box? His exit is not clear, he is not intending to turn right. By stopping in the box the car could be causing problems for large vehicles turning right from marlborough road onto sandford road.

My view is that cars turning right from Merton drive should follow the basic rules of the road. In the first instance obey the yield sign when joining the main road followed by don't enter the yellow box unless you can clear it without stopping.

Yellow box rules.

Perhaps this yellow box should be a "keep Clear". But it is a yellow box before a junction, which can be distinguished from one in a junction. It has nothing to do with blocking vehicles turning from Marlborough Road, which as a 3t limit away, as it is before the Marlborough Road junction.

RustyNut

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Perhaps this yellow box should be a "keep Clear". But it is a yellow box before a junction, which can be distinguished from one in a junction. It has nothing to do with blocking vehicles turning from Marlborough Road, which as a 3t limit away, as it is before the Marlborough Road junction.

Not that it would make any difference to the rules but it is in the junction of Merton drive and Sandford road.

degsie

RustyNut wrote: »

What makes it ok for the first car to stop in the box? His exit is not clear, he is not intending to turn right. By stopping in the box the car could be causing problems for large vehicles turning right from marlborough road onto sandford road.

My view is that cars turning right from Merton drive should follow the basic rules of the road. In the first instance obey the yield sign when joining the main road followed by don't enter the yellow box unless you can clear it without stopping.

How in God's earth would cars (turning right) be able to clear Merton Dr in busy periods using your logic?

Edit: assuming they use the stop at red light rule

peneau

RustyNut wrote: »

I never said its ok to pass a red light. Im saying that they should not enter the box if there is a red light.



Can you link to something to back this up? The RSA site would suggest the exact opposite to what you say, in fact their DON'T
example is just what you suggest is ok.

The RSA Site. The exception example depicts the "Do" car turning right and the "Dont" car turning left.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/yellow-box-junctions.html

RustyNut

degsie wrote: »

How in God's earth would cars (turning right) be able to clear Merton Dr in busy periods using your logic?

By following the rules of the road. How long does the wait have to be before the rules dont apply? There should be a light feeding traffic into the junction but there isn't therefor the rules for yield signs and yellow box apply.

degsie

RustyNut wrote: »

By following the rules of the road. How long does the wait have to be before the rules dont apply? There should be a light feeding traffic into the junction but there isn't therefor the rules for yield signs and yellow box apply.

Fortunately most drivers use common sense and would enter the yellow box.

RustyNut

peneau wrote: »

The RSA Site. The exception example depicts the "Do" car turning right and the "Dont" car turning left.

http://www.rulesoftheroad.ie/rules-for-driving/junctions-roundabouts/yellow-box-junctions.html

The do example shows someone entering the box intending to turn right when oncoming traffic allows.

The don't example shows a car after turning right into a box that they can't clear without stopping.

Allinall

The yellow box at that junction is solely to facilitate cars exiting from Merton Drive.

What other possible reason is there for it's existence?

peneau

RustyNut wrote: »

The do example shows someone entering the box intending to turn right when oncoming traffic allows.

The don't example shows a car after turning right into a box that they can't clear without stopping.

So it does apologies for that however.

From the RSA site:

"An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don't enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way."

endagibson

One I've noticed is that the first car at the light doesn't have the brakes on or something and continues to roll forward very slowly until the green light shows. FFS, take control of your vehicle.