Reinstatement of mandatory use?

Doctor Bob

loyatemu wrote: »

the other thing they could be doing is actively removing abandoned bikes - a significant number of slots outside the local Dart station are occupied by rusting junk-piles that have clearly been abandoned by their owners.

Greystones? Maybe it also happens elsewhere, but I've heard that commuter cyclists in Greystones leave an old rustbucket bike at the cycle parking in order to claim a spot, and then lock their daily commuter bike to the clunker that's locked to the stand. A neat if cheeky solution to over-subscribed parking.

Doctor Bob

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'm amazed the RSA don't have any cyclists working for them who are screaming at them about this.

I think it's safe to say that many government departments, state agencies, etc. have people working for them who disagree fundamentally with the publicly stated policy, whether that's in Transport, Housing, Agriculture, whatever.

I've been in the public sector for most of my working life and I've often had to write papers, PQ responses, submissions, etc. with my fingers crossed while holding my nose. (It can make typing very tricky.)

I think it's also safe to say, though, that the RSA top brass haven't a ****ing clue about cycling.

rubadub

Was there every any official reason for removing "cycling on footpaths" as an easily fineable offence along the others?

I had 2 reasons in mind at the time, first was the issue of forcing very young children onto the road and second was the fact that many cycletracks/ways are incorrectly signposted so I guess are technically footpaths. I am not fully aware of the laws but do they have to have signs, as in on poles, saying if a cycletrack has started and ended.

You can see here the lines are worn away on the driveways

https://goo.gl/maps/3EZMX1Jst2y

So technically are you supposed to get off the bike and walk over these, or if they do have to legally have a sign saying where it starts and/or stops can you stay on the road as there is no indication that the lines are cycle tracks at all.

Now I know fine well it is intended for cycling, but it could be argued in court or if pulled over. But there are places I am not certain about. e.g. on the left here
https://goo.gl/maps/ymHttaSv6so

magicbastarder

rubadub wrote: »

You can see here the lines are worn away on the driveways

https://goo.gl/maps/3EZMX1Jst2y

that's on my route to work. have been beeped at for using the road. a bit further back is a horrible example of that 'cycle path' design literally just being 'let's paint some paint on a footpath':
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2763715,-6.1879791,3a,75y,187.24h,60.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxLqtXUDxipfNqYu_AC5OzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

oflahero

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's on my route to work. have been beeped at for using the road. a bit further back is a horrible example of that 'cycle path' design literally just being 'let's paint some paint on a footpath':
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2763715,-6.1879791,3a,75y,187.24h,60.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxLqtXUDxipfNqYu_AC5OzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

That one's magnificent. Not only does it terminate in a lamppost squarely in the middle, it also encourages people to bump straight down and peg across the road when there might be a car turning left. Whereas it would've been much safer to have been on the road just going straight.

rubadub

oflahero wrote: »

it also encourages people to bump straight down and peg across the road when there might be a car turning left.

Thats what I do, I do not turn at all, just fly off the kerb -of course I check for cars but there is very rarely one turning at the time I am there. The cars coming out of the estate seem well aware that bikes do this and hold back from the corner a bit. I saw more close calls with people going the intended way

There is a weird hilly bit before it, if cars are far enough behind I go onto the road, avoid the hill and hop up on the kerb again

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's on my route to work. have been beeped at for using the road.

Yeah, I have seen them beeping, going up and down is annoying, and the dips are so big people walking often go on the cycletrack to avoid them. Then you have idiots with dogs on those extension leads let out about 10-15 foot and the dog in the path.

Some cars fly out of the driveway, most are good though, then you have delivery men, oil trucks, hedge trimmers all parked up. Next you encounter the mystery pedestrian crossing lights that seem to have a mind of their own, cars all stopped and not a sinner in sight, big confused head on drivers thinking its broken. The road reminds me of an old arcade game, paperboy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzPEtBTB1HY

Corca Baiscinn

tampopo wrote: »

Or maybe I misinterpreted your post...

Touché......ok may not as opposed to can not!

Chiparus

rubadub wrote: »

Was there every any official reason for removing "cycling on footpaths" as an easily fineable offence along the others?

I had 2 reasons in mind at the time, first was the issue of forcing very young children onto the road and second was the fact that many cycletracks/ways are incorrectly signposted so I guess are technically footpaths. I am not fully aware of the laws but do they have to have signs, as in on poles, saying if a cycletrack has started and ended.

I believe the guards opposed it for the "children reason"

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cyclists-who-use-footpaths-will-not-be-fined-31342974.html.

monument

I'm not one to defend ministers all the time but...

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Leo certainly didn't care once he had moved out of Transport, but it is a different scenario now with him as Taoiseach. There is certainly an opportunity to raise a stir and embarrass him, given his speeches on the issue at the time. This would need to be done before the proposal goes too far (like now).

In fairness to Leo, he replied when asked questions. Which I think nudged the story on a bit.

Ross has never done so (beyond standard departmental statements). Despite repeated attempts to get comment via his personal advisor, not even a holding reply has been forthcoming.

Chiparus wrote: »

I believe the guards opposed it for the "children reason"

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/cyclists-who-use-footpaths-will-not-be-fined-31342974.html.

In fairness it seemed to be more from minister Donohoe. His public statements on it seemed to reflect this.

magicbastarder

i got a fairly constructive response from my local FG TD, noel rock, to my email expressing concern over the proposed change. i'm not going to quote the whole response here, as i think was intended as a reply to a constituent and not intended for public dissemination, but did include the comment 'With infrastructure so poor at the moment for cyclists, I would not be in favour of such changes to the legislation.'

he also cited Ciaran Cannon and Regina Doherty and their proposed legislation.

AndrewJRenko

monument wrote: »

I'm not one to defend ministers all the time but...



In fairness to Leo, he replied when asked questions. Which I think nudged the story on a bit.

I thought Leo's response was along the lines of "I don't remember, but all the records would be in Dept Transport, so ask them"

monument

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I thought Leo's response was along the lines of "I don't remember, but all the records would be in Dept Transport, so ask them"

He effectively confirmed it was not raised as an issue when he was in office and put the ball back in Ross's court.

Carawaystick

Ciaran Cannon has a very unequivocal view about cycle infrastructure and safety

He's probably the most Pro cycling TD going

Chuchote

oflahero wrote: »

That one's magnificent. Not only does it terminate in a lamppost squarely in the middle, it also encourages people to bump straight down and peg across the road when there might be a car turning left. Whereas it would've been much safer to have been on the road just going straight.

A neighbour has an ESB pole, one of the big metal ones, directly outside his driveway so he can't drive out. He asked to have it moved, and the council held out their hand for €5,000 to move it the two metres out of the way. It's still there.

loyatemu wrote: »

the other thing they could be doing is actively removing abandoned bikes - a significant number of slots outside the local Dart station are occupied by rusting junk-piles that have clearly been abandoned by their owners.

You can report abandoned bicycles to Dublin City Council here:

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-your-council/isupport?language=en

(Go to Proceed to Create a Service Request, choose Abandoned Bicycles or Trolleys, show it on the map and give a description, add a photo if you have one and that's it. Slow website, but efficient response.)

I don't know about Dublin County Council or Wicklow County Council but others may.

Incidentally, the Harold's Cross Ghost Bike was removed as an "abandoned bicycle", which I find really shocking. A monument to the dead isn't an abandoned bicycle.

http://irishcycle.com/2016/06/14/ghost-bike-removed-under-dublin-city-abandoned-bicycle-scheme/

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

that's on my route to work. have been beeped at for using the road. a bit further back is a horrible example of that 'cycle path' design literally just being 'let's paint some paint on a footpath':
https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.2763715,-6.1879791,3a,75y,187.24h,60.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sxLqtXUDxipfNqYu_AC5OzA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

i got blown at - and close passed - by a dunnes lorry on this road this morning, and ended up having an exchange of views with the driver. never a dignified activity, arguing with a person sitting several feet above you.

still, he was kind enough to point out that his views were based on concern for my safety. to which i really should have replied 'don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining', but i'm a master of l'esprit d'escalier.

Chuchote

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/13/college-green-cyclists-dismount-vote-passed-by-deciding-vote/

COLLEGE GREEN “CYCLISTS DISMOUNT” VOTE PASSED BY DECIDING VOTE
JUNE 13, 2017 CIAN GINTY NEWS 0

A vote to ban cycling on the planned College Green Plaza by Dublin City Council’s south east area committee of city councillors on April 10 was passed by the chairman’s vote, the council has confirmed.

The non-binding motion has already been overtaken by the council’s design for a low-visibility cycle route for the College Green Plaza, which will allow for cycling to one side and of the plaza. However, the symbolic vote will be seen by many as a sign of the unstable political commitment to cycling.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

http://irishcycle.com/2017/06/13/college-green-cyclists-dismount-vote-passed-by-deciding-vote/

Hah! I was told fairly recently not to "get my knickers in a twist" over the possibility that there would be no cycling allowed on that since there was clearly a grey on grey cycle lane in the artists impression. Particularly ironic since I don't actually mind if you can't cycle there.

My issue is that if this is to be a no cycling area then it shouldn't be on a cycle route. There shouldn't be red tarmac leading right up to this and then a cyclists dismount sign, with more red tarmac you can see 100m away. This will annoy cyclists unfamiliar with the area who thought they were following a cycle route, not a cycle/walk route and will result in a lot of them (wrongly) cycling across anyway. The marked cycle lane should go clearly go around the plaza, presumably on Suffolk Street, not just dead end.

There are plenty of other pedestrian only areas which would be handy to cycle down and everyone (well most people) still manage ok. Grafton Street is right there for example.

Even if this non-binding motion doesn't mean anything, which seems likely, the cycle lane across the plaza is very likely to be a mess anyway. I think the separation of cyclists and pedestrians is going to be problematic even with the best design and the, presumably architect driven, grey on grey paving design is NOT the best to facilitate separation.

I love Sean nos

Chuchote wrote: »

a low-visibility cycle route

Are they going to install dry ice machines along the path or how does this work?

magicbastarder

to be fair, it's seems to be a climbdown from the 'hi vis to do with anything related to cycling' stance most government bodies adopt.

cython

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Are they going to install dry ice machines along the path or how does this work?

I think the low-visibility part is in reference to the track/route being discreet and not sticking out like a sore thumb, which will inevitably result in pedestrians meandering along it like the rest of the plaza, so a token offering to cyclists that will probably turn out to be less than useless in practice.

nomdeboardie

Speaking of 'low-visibility cycle tracks' – have any Dublin-dwellers seen the new paths accessing Carrickmines retail park? I cycled there a few weeks ago and noticed wide new paths with tiny discreet bike logos embedded at intervals on one side. So cyclists lose priority at the junctions/roundabouts and negotiate walkers (albeit few) oblivious that they have a ‘side’ they should stay on! :P Then again, maybe motor traffic won't realise they're there and will not bully cyclists if they stay on-road? Can't remember if there were previously on-road cycle lanes there.

(ETA: And God forbid there would be any cycle parking stands that I could find...)

I love Sean nos

cython wrote: »

I think the low-visibility part is in reference to the track/route being discreet and not sticking out like a sore thumb, which will inevitably result in pedestrians meandering along it like the rest of the plaza, so a token offering to cyclists that will probably turn out to be less than useless in practice.

That's boring.

I like my idea better.

check_six

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Speaking of 'low-visibility cycle tracks' ? have any Dublin-dwellers seen the new paths accessing Carrickmines retail park?

(ETA: And God forbid there would be any cycle parking stands that I could find...)

Bike racks are outside Woodies. The paths are very subtle and obviously you lose priority over everyone everywhere. The bigger problem I found getting up there is the roundabout on the other side of the N11.

One time I went up that way I came out of the back of the Leopardstown Racecourse/Gym place and arrived at the roundabout. There is a cycletrack as you arrive at the roundabout, and I foolishly decided to try it out. I travelled as far as the first exit (to go to Cornelscourt) and then realised I was trapped. I was off the road, I was pulling a trailer, and I had no way of crossing to the next leg of the roundabout unless the traffic on all four legs of the roundabout ceased simultaneously as I had lost priority on everyone.

Inevitably, this did not happen for the guts of 10 minutes, which feels a *hell* of a lot longer when you are standing there feeling stupid for ever even contemplating taking to the cycle lane. I also had just negotiated that sh*tshow of a cycle track on Leopardstown Road which was mentioned here in the last few posts. *And* I had got stuck earlier on the N11 cycle track because I couldn't fit past a fellow rolling along and didn't fancy dropping into the buslane with a sleeping youngfella in the trailer.

Suffice to say I would challenge any reinstatement boosters to replicate my journey and see how they feel afterwards. I'd hazard a guess that they would be less well disposed to their crazy idea in the aftermath.

check_six

cython wrote: »

I think the low-visibility part is in reference to the track/route being discreet and not sticking out like a sore thumb, which will inevitably result in pedestrians meandering along it like the rest of the plaza, so a token offering to cyclists that will probably turn out to be less than useless in practice.

They are leaving access to the plaza vague enough that people cycle across it anyway and have people complaining from both points of view anyway. It can only sow division and discord. Everyone using the plaza will be upset and we'll have more nonsense on the airwaves. Terrific!

AndrewJRenko

I reported a classic 'road to nowhere' cycle lane on the far side of Glenamuck Road, alongside the apartments a couple of weeks back via fixmystreet. It just stops at a high kerb with no way down on to the road. Has anyone noticed if they have done anything to improve it yet?

nomdeboardie

check_six wrote: »

Bike racks are outside Woodies. ...

Ah, thanks – I was on the other side, (been over on the Woodies side many times, but from a car, so didn’t notice them).

... The bigger problem I found getting up there is the roundabout on the other side of the N11. . ...

Don’t get me started!!! The partially-implemented path and bike track system there is a joke for both cyclists and pedestrians. I think I mentioned it in a detailed letter to the council years ago, but my main focus was on Leopardstown road in that one. Intend to write to them asking for the recommended way to navigate it... Meanwhile I suppose I’ll grit my teeth and stick to the road

... *And* I had got stuck earlier on the N11 cycle track because I couldn't fit past a fellow rolling along and didn't fancy dropping into the buslane with a sleeping youngfella in the trailer. ...

As I keep saying, the issue of passing on off-road cycle tracks is a real one.

tomasrojo

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Speaking of 'low-visibility cycle tracks' – have any Dublin-dwellers seen the new paths accessing Carrickmines retail park? I cycled there a few weeks ago and noticed wide new paths with tiny discreet bike logos embedded at intervals on one side.

Yeah, I was there the weekend before last, going to Smyth's. I did try them out, and pedestrians had no idea they were on a cycle lane, but they did get out of my way, funnily enough.

jimmycrackcorm

AndrewJRenko wrote:

I reported a classic 'road to nowhere' cycle lane on the far side of Glenamuck Road, alongside the apartments a couple of weeks back via fixmystreet. It just stops at a high kerb with no way down on to the road. Has anyone noticed if they have done anything to improve it yet?

I reported glass on a path on my route. I even mentioned that there was a council worker who is out sweeping the road and path every week. Still the same and I even saw him sweeping only metres away.

Chuchote

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I reported glass on a path on my route. I even mentioned that there was a council worker who is out sweeping the road and path every week. Still the same and I even saw him sweeping only metres away.

I reported several patches of broken glass on the Grand Canal cycle path (clearly deliberately broken in the centre of the track in two places, near the Barge and further towards Rathmines, though I didn't say this) using this site

http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-roads-and-traffic-road-maintenance-and-street-repair/repair-road-or-footpath

and it was swept away next time I passed.

That Glenamucky cycle track is mad, Ted. I also came across a nice one somewhere around Taney the other day with lampposts in the middle of the track, so you either have to cycle left onto the pedestrian part or risk being knocked off into the road.

Chuchote

Perhaps Dublin City Council could achieve the same effect by doing as Oslo is doing, and removing parking in the city centre, replacing it with cycle lanes

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/13/oslo-ban-cars-backlash-parking

When a progressive political alliance took power over Oslo’s city council in October 2015, they had made one of their first priorities a greener and more liveable environment in the city. With an almost 30% increase in population expected by 2040, the Norwegian capital was worried about its carbon footprint.

It wasted no time, selling off its coal investments, creating a renewable district heating system and firmly committing to slashing greenhouse gas emissions (to 95% of 1990 levels) by 2030.

The biggest bugbear, however, was transport, which accounts for 61% of the city’s CO2 emissions – a full 39% of it coming from private cars.


The council’s clever solution? Rather than banning cars, it would ban parking – all 650 on-street parking spots. In their place, “we’ll put up installations and create public spaces,” says Berg, referring to six pilot areas. “Some will be playgrounds or cultural events, or [contain] benches or bike parking – or other things you can fill the space with when you don’t have 1,200 kilograms of glass and steel.”



For those put off by Oslo’s hills, the council released 5 million Norwegian krone (£465,000) to help citizens purchase electic bikes. This year, they’re targeting families with another money pot for cargo bikes.


Bicycles will also replace delivery vans in a new pilot project: starting this month, a container in the Aker Brygge neighbourhood will function as a micro-terminal for freight transport – the first of its kind in Norway. Goods will be dropped at the terminal, and distributed throughout the city by electric bicycle. The plan is a collaboration between the public roads administration, Oslo municipality and DHL.