Reinstatement of mandatory use?

AndrewJRenko

tomasrojo wrote: »

Ross appears to be pretty complicit in this though. Pretty odd to be overturning a considered decision by the man who is now Taoiseach, but I doubt Varadkar cares about this stuff now.

The RSA and the Gardaí have been pretty determined in reinstating mandatory use. I think they really resented Varadkar ignoring their objections at the time.

Leo certainly didn't care once he had moved out of Transport, but it is a different scenario now with him as Taoiseach. There is certainly an opportunity to raise a stir and embarrass him, given his speeches on the issue at the time. This would need to be done before the proposal goes too far (like now).

magicbastarder wrote: »

i did send an email to the RSA months ago asking what advice they have for cyclists when faced with impossible cycle lane design - they said they'd get back to me but never did.

I finally got a response from Moyagh in RSA to the missive I sent to Chairperson Liz O'Donnell some months back (February I think) about their cycle safety strategy. You'll be reassured to know that they have full confidence in their current cycle safety strategy, as (wait for it) they have done some surveys and most people tell them they're great. The matter of increasing deaths of cyclists does not seem to have any relevance for them.

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I think cyclists should email them in photos or Google streetview links to unsuitable instances of these mandatory cycle lanes.

It's been happening for 2-3 years now - RSA ignore it.

https://twitter.com/search?f=images&vertical=default&q=%23freethecyclelanes&src=tyah&lang=en

HivemindXX

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the AAs playbook and say we are all in favour of this BUT it can't be done until every single cycle track meets or exceeds the guidelines.

Clearly it's essential to get rid of all those ridiculously narrow cycle lanes. And the confusing ones where there is some paint but no blue sign. And the ones which sort of peter out leaving you with no idea whether you are still on a cycle path, or the footpath and where you are supposed to go next. And the ones which are only 10m long. And the ones that give up priority for driveways in to houses. And the ones which force you to go down side roads and cross at a pedestrian crossing. And the ones which don't allow you make right turns. And the ones which position cyclists going straight on the inside of left turning cars. And the ones which have bollards or boulders in the middle of them. And the ones which require you to rejoin the road at a sharp angle. And the ones which are broken in to pieces by tree roots. And the ones which are covered in mulch and leaves for much of the year. And the ones where hedges or grass partially blocks them. And the ones which have poor separation between cyclists and pedestrians. And the ones that are habitually used as ersatz car parking.

So as soon as we have surveyed every cycle lane and either fixed or removed all the issues mandatory use will be welcomed.

Actually I'd be a lot happier to use random cycle lanes I come across if I could be confident they weren't terrible. I use ones I know are good (because why wouldn't I). I don't use ones I know exhibit one of the issues I list above. I rarely use ones I don't know to be good because I think it is very likely they wil have ones of the issues above.

tomasrojo

HivemindXX wrote: »

Actually I'd be a lot happier to use random cycle lanes I come across if I could be confident they weren't terrible. I use ones I know are good (because why wouldn't I). I don't use ones I know exhibit one of the issues I list above. I rarely use ones I don't know to be good because I think it is very likely they wil have ones of the issues above.

Yeah, I used the cycle track that goes from Stillorgan Park across the Stillorgan dual carriageway the other week ... except it doesn't go across the dual carriageway; it sends you off down the dual carriageway and there's no way (at least in a cargo bike, as I was) to get off it and onto the road to go straight ahead towards the shopping centre. I should have gone with my first instinct and got onto the road, where all options were available.

ED E

Any GIS heads on here with the time to make up an interactive lane map that we can document the flaws?

Step forward, but without effective towing/FCPNs it can have limited success.

Chuchote

HivemindXX wrote: »

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the AAs playbook and say we are all in favour of this BUT it can't be done until every single cycle track meets or exceeds the guidelines.

I'd go further and say I'd be delighted with mandatory lanes - but only if they're wide and protected with bollards or planters so they can't be parked in. And properly surfaced so they're safe to cycle in; no slithery manhole covers, no potholes.

We should also borrow the playbook of the gay activists who got out in such well-organised numbers, and pulled in straight friends and colleagues, to canvass for the marriage-for-all referendum. Cyclists are disproportionally well educated, articulate and politically savvy; if we got together to canvass for or against politicians who served our needs, this would give us a lot of asking power.

Chips Lovell

What on earth are the RSA thinking with this stunt?

It's worth noting that it's not just Varadkar's decision that led to the abolition. The law was changed in the aftermath of the publication the National Cycle Policy Framework in 2009, which recommended abolishing mandatory use because:

(i) it is clear that the cycling infrastructure that has been constructed to date is often of a poor standard and is poorly maintained, and cyclists are required to use it;
(ii) it can force cyclists to be on cycle tracks and (when they are planning on continuing straight ahead) to be on the inside of left-turning vehicles, including Heavy Goods Vehicles;
(iii) if a group of cyclists (on a weekend cycle for example) is using a road with an off-road cycle-track alongside it, then they are required to use it ? which is not practicable.

None of the above has changed since 2012, when the new statutory instrument was signed. Is the RSA even aware of why it was abolished in the first place? Surely its highly irresponsible to recommend reversion to the previous state of play?

Of course, there's also the supreme irony of the a body calling itself the Road Safety Authority recommending the above.

tomasrojo

My understanding is the RSA always opposed the rescinding of the mandatory-use legislation. Because they know everything about road safety.

magicbastarder

i'm still struggling to understand what sort of cloud cuckoo land the RSA live in which suggests to them that cycle lanes are always a feasible option for cyclists.

tomasrojo

None of them cycle, probably.

Judging by their published statistical analyses, they don't have any decent, objective, in-house statisticians either.

They do seem to function largely as a PR outfit for windshield-view road-safety orthodoxy.

magicbastarder

i emailed my local FG TD about it last night (i'm not an FGer, just figured it'd make more sense to email him than the non-FG TDs first); he was quite responsive when i emailed about the NMH controversy anyway.
also sent a follow up mail to the RSA enquiring about the process on advising cyclists how to deal with substandard bike lanes. i wonder if they lurk here?

Chiparus

https://www.buzz.ie/news/cycle-bike-241482

tomasrojo

Chiparus wrote: »

https://www.buzz.ie/news/cycle-bike-241482

Moya Murdoch again:

A report from the RSA to the Transport Minister, Shane Ross would have bikers exclusively using cycle lanes when possible. RSA head, Moya Murdoch believes that the law needs to be reviewed as the number of cyclists in Ireland continues to rise.
[...]
"It's got to the stage where there is congestion on some cycle lanes, such as the canals in Dublin.

The number of cyclists continues to rise, the cycle lanes are congested ... time to force ALL cyclists into the congested cycle lanes.


It's faintly amusing that they've completely dropped the "cycle lanes are still compulsory/missing comma" explanation for the review. Now it's congestion is the reason.
Looks as if the "congested" framing is coming entirely from the RSA. I suspect they're labouring under the delusion that cyclists are making congestion on the ROADS worse.

tomasrojo

Strange bit in that article:

As well as that the cycle lanes in Dublin are often occupied by vehicles and can be difficult to navigate at the best of times. Upwards of 12 people have already been killed on Irish roads this year which is much higher that in 2016.

Nine cyclists have been killed, I think.

Chiparus

tomasrojo wrote: »

Moya Murdoch again:


The number of cyclists continues to rise, the cycle lanes are congested ... time to force ALL cyclists into the congested cycle lanes.


It's faintly amusing that they've completely dropped the "cycle lanes are still compulsory/missing comma" explanation for the review. Now it's congestion is the reason.
Looks as if the "congested" framing is coming entirely from the RSA. I suspect they're labouring under the delusion that cyclists are making congestion on the ROADS worse.

They are saying the cycle lanes are congested, and perhaps demanding more grand canal type cycle lanes?
Clearly there is much confusion about cyclists, recently I complained about the Bird avenue upgrade which widened footpaths but had no provision for cyclists, so South county dublin painted some bikes on the road. No lane , just some painted bikes on the road. :rolleyes:

Chuchote

I'll just leave this here; this should be quoted in any correspondence with councillors in relation to the need for cycle lanes:




Over a quarter of Irish adults are already obese (look around you at the council table…); children are facing a future of early onset diabetes, heart trouble, joint problems. Infrastructure that makes it safe for children and adults to ride their bikes is the best - and really the only - way of tackling Ireland's epidemic of unfitness and fatness.

(Poles, Czechs, Lithuanians, British, Latvians, Turks are also Mr Blobbys - the countries that cycle most are slimmest, as far as I can see.)

AndrewJRenko

Chiparus wrote: »

recently I complained about the Bird avenue upgrade which widened footpaths but had no provision for cyclists, so South county dublin painted some bikes on the road. No lane , just some painted bikes on the road. :rolleyes:

Any response on this one? It is DLR CoCo, not South Dublin for Bird Ave.

Chiparus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Any response on this one? It is DLR CoCo, not South Dublin for Bird Ave.

My bad , yes I got a response, essentially not enough room for a cycle lane, but it is a major route for cyclists, recently on this roadI saw a cyclist stop suddenly when her phone fell on the ground , the landrover discovery luckily was able to avoid hitting her.

AndrewJRenko

Chiparus wrote: »

My bad , yes I got a response, essentially not enough room for a cycle lane, but it is a major route for cyclists, recently on this roadI saw a cyclist stop suddenly when her phone fell on the ground , the landrover discovery luckily was able to avoid hitting her.

In fairness, they're probably right, unless they were either to make it a one-way street, or to ban parking on one or both sides - either of which would certainly result in a bit of an uproar from the burghers of south Dublin.

I thought it was a reasonable job that they did, with the bike markings to remind drivers that bikes will be on the road.

Chiparus

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

In fairness, they're probably right, unless they were either to make it a one-way street, or to ban parking on one or both sides - either of which would certainly result in a bit of an uproar from the burghers of south Dublin.

I thought it was a reasonable job that they did, with the bike markings to remind drivers that bikes will be on the road.

?? - because there are no bikes on unmarked roads?:rolleyes:

radia

There may be some value in making sure these politicians in particular are well-versed in the arguments from a cyclist's perspective and have all the necessary statistics to hand, so they can present them in the Dáil/Seanad: Ivana Bacik, Ciaran Cannon, Gerry Horkan, Kevin Humphreys, Alice Higgins, Grace O'Sullivan. They're the most likely ones to do so.
Oireachtas All-Party Cyclists Group
Seems to be a relaunch of a group first started in 2012, with Ivana Bacik being a key participant in each case. Also mentioned in 2012 were Alex White, Aodhan O Riordain, Sean Kenny, Alan Kelly and Katherine Zappone.

tampopo

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

After all a pedestrian can't run out on the road or a motorist drive on the footpath to avoid congestion.

you mean not like this?

tampopo

Or maybe I misinterpreted your post...

AndrewJRenko

tampopo wrote: »

you mean not like this?

Album private?

ED E

Wow photobucket have gone to shiiiiite. Wont load with adblocker, without popups out the nose. tampopo try Imgur next time.

Chuchote

If the Chinese come in, it'll change the whole ball game. Starting in Manchester, they aim to take on many countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/12/uber-bikes-manchester-mobike-china-global-ofo

(Quote includes snippets from piece)

'Uber for bikes': Chinese firm eyes global dominion with launch in Manchester
Mobike to open ‘dockless’ bike share scheme in Manchester with initial 1,000 bikes as Chinese companies take aggressive battle for market share to the west


Unlike in most western schemes, where shared bikes are rented from docks, in China many urban residents instead find available bikes via GPS and an app, and then unlock it with their phone.

While “Boris bikes” were instrumental in increasing the profile of cycling in Britain, Seal-Driver said the system had serious limitations, such as limited geographic reach, slow expansion and bulky docking stations.

Users download an app that displays a map with the locations of the GPS-enabled bikes, then use their phones to unlock the cycle. When a rider reaches their destination, they are free to park the bike wherever they want, with no need to return it to a fixed docking point.

I'd also like to know what their GPS tracking model is, and if it could be used on private bikes.

HivemindXX

Chuchote wrote: »

If the Chinese come in, it'll change the whole ball game. Starting in Manchester, they aim to take on many countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/jun/12/uber-bikes-manchester-mobike-china-global-ofo

(Quote includes snippets from piece)

I'd also like to know what their GPS tracking model is, and if it could be used on private bikes.

This system seems problematic to me and it appears that it does cause huge problems in some cities in China (but works ok in others).

Since there are no docks people just leave the bikes anywhere and everywhere. Train stations have big piles of them outside, one locked to the other. There is no incentive to put them somewhere reasonable and so people leave them where ever is most convenient for them. I would want to see what measures would ensure that doesn't happen here before I'd support any such system.

loyatemu

they'd have to increase the amount of proper bike parking around the city, but the council should be doing this anyway.

HivemindXX

loyatemu wrote: »

they'd have to increase the amount of proper bike parking around the city, but the council should be doing this anyway.

Off topic, but on this, I noticed the other day they had taken away most, or all, of the bike stands from Stephen's Green / Grafton street corner. This may be because of the Luas but I can't really see how the ones to the right of the main entrance of the shopping centre would have needed to be removed for that. I hope they are planning on putting these back because there's a lot of demand around there and it was already a short supply before they removed 10-20 stands.

loyatemu

HivemindXX wrote: »

Off topic, but on this, I noticed the other day they had taken away most, or all, of the bike stands from Stephen's Green / Grafton street corner. This may be because of the Luas but I can't really see how the ones to the right of the main entrance of the shopping centre would have needed to be removed for that. I hope they are planning on putting these back because there's a lot of demand around there and it was already a short supply before they removed 10-20 stands.

the other thing they could be doing is actively removing abandoned bikes - a significant number of slots outside the local Dart station are occupied by rusting junk-piles that have clearly been abandoned by their owners.

ED E

Mobike:

Dublin Bikes: