2 more police killings USA style

BoJack Horseman

This one, Baton Rouge in Louisiana

And this one where a woman facebook videos the killing of her boyfriend in Minnesota.

Viewer discretion is obviously advised etc & probably NSFW.

Quite incredible though....
At some point that nation needs to have a conversation about its policing.

suicide_circus

Pretty ****ed up, glad I don't live there

Timberrrrrrrr

Words fail me.

FTA69

Disgusting murder. Literally no justification for it whatsoever.

lertsnim

This is what happens when you give absolute ****wits a badge and a gun. Both those videos have cops losing their cool.

walshyn93

For the Baton Rouge one there is a second video which shows the cops removing a gun from his pocket after they shoot him. Clearly the one they alleged he was reaching for.

Also worth noting that the reason the cops were called is because he allegedly brandished his gun at a passerby and told them to get lost.

lertsnim

Guilty until proven innocent so.

Tabnabs

That woman is remarkably calm as her partner dies on the seat beside her. I don't doubt she's in shock, but I wouldn't be sitting there filming by OH's last moments with a running commentary. Very odd behaviour (and scummy policeman obviously).

walshyn93

Tabnabs wrote: »

That woman is remarkably calm as her partner dies on the seat beside her. I don't doubt she's in shock, but I wouldn't be sitting there filming by OH's last moments with a running commentary. Very odd behaviour (and scummy policeman obviously).

Tbf you don't know what you'd be doing in that situation.

It would appear that the video taken by the passenger was actually streamed live.

BoJack Horseman

walshyn93 wrote: »

For the Baton Rouge one there is a second video which shows the cops removing a gun from his pocket after they shoot him. Clearly the one they alleged he was reaching for.

The link I posted was that 2nd video.
We can see the officer take something from the victims right pocket.... But it seemed too small to be a gun (to my eyes at least).

In the subsequent news conference the local PD refused to say what was removed from the person's pocket.

wes

walshyn93 wrote: »

For the Baton Rouge one there is a second video which shows the cops removing a gun from his pocket after they shoot him. Clearly the one they alleged he was reaching for.

Him having a gun is a indication of nothing, due to high level of gun ownership in the US. As long as he owned the gun legally, and had the right to carry it via the relevant permits, then its no indication of criminal intent.

The US has a very different culture to us, where people carrying a gun are not necessarily up to no good.

ceadaoin.

wes wrote: »

Him having a gun is a indication of nothing, due to high level of gun ownership in the US. As long as he owned the gun legally, and had the right to carry it via the relevant permits, then its no indication of criminal intent.

The US has a very different culture to us, where people carrying a gun are not necessarily up to no good.

He was on probabtion at the time of his death so wasn't allowed to hold a firearm. He was also a sex offender with convictions for domestic violence so that would probably stop him getting a gun also. I know in my state a record of domestic violence stops you legally obtaining a gun.

the_syco

The cops at Baton Rouge were stupid. The other one, not sure. Seems he told the cop he had a gun, and then made stupid movements.

El_Duderino 09

I'll check out fox news for a laugh to see how they handle it.

The pro gun right ring characters usually trot out the line that carrying a gun makes people more safe. They must mean makes proper white people more safe because carrying a gun didn't work out great for those 2 fellas.

The guy who played Bunk Morland in The Wire spoke about his before. He said he keeps his wallet and driving licence on the dashboard so that when he's pulled over by a police officer he won't have to reach into his pocket and he can keep his hands visible to the police officer.

I know people get sick of hearing about race but that's a Scarry reality to live with.

Eramen

lertsnim wrote: »

Guilty until proven innocent so.

Both sensationalism and the ranty internet SJW collective have overtaken our traditional sense of justice. Let the facts be established before we ready our high horses.

walshyn93

wes wrote: »

Him having a gun is a indication of nothing, due to high level of gun ownership in the US. As long as he owned the gun legally, and had the right to carry it via the relevant permits, then its no indication of criminal intent.

The US has a very different culture to us, where people carrying a gun are not necessarily up to no good.

But he wasn't shot for having a gun. If him having a gun was the only relevant fact your post might carry some weight in the discussion, but alas, he (allegedly) pointed it at a passerby then (allegedly) reached for it while the cops were arresting him.

This case has all the hallmarks of suicide by cop.

Reports are also stating that he was a convicted sex offender and some saying it was a child sex offence so he probably didn't own it legally anyway.

kneemos

Are most of these police shootings in the south?Seems to be a trend.

The_Valeyard

One fecked up nation

walshyn93

the_syco wrote: »

The cops at Baton Rouge were stupid. The other one, not sure. Seems he told the cop he had a gun, and then made stupid movements.

I think it was the other way around.

Not sure how people aren't seeing what I'm seeing on the Baton Rouge video. They have reason to believe he has a gun based on the 911 call reporting him pointing it at a passerby. They tackle him to the ground. While wrestling with him the cop says he's got a gun, he's reaching for it, etc. Other cop tells him to stop. Apparently doesn't stop. bang bang. Cop pulls gun out of man's pocket.

So far the evidence is stacked in favour of the cops here. More will come out for sure, but this one doesn't fit the narrative of police brutality/racism as it stands.

The other one on the other hand seems a bit more suspicious. Worth nothing that the police officer was Asian before blaming white racism.

walshyn93

http://www.npr.org/2016/03/11/469974819/chicago-murder-rate-spikes-less-aggressive-policing-blamed

Here's an example of what outrage culture has done for black people lately.

selastich2

they wouldn't have been shot if they behaved themselves

ScumLord

the_syco wrote: »

The cops at Baton Rouge were stupid. The other one, not sure. Seems he told the cop he had a gun, and then made stupid movements.

He's kind of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't there. If he didn't tell he cop about the gun he'd probably be arrested.

This seems to be all too common in the states. I find it kind of hard to blame the cops. I wouldn't want to be an American police officer, they must live in fear themselves knowing they're probably surrounded at all times by armed people who hate them. It would make anyone jumpy. I can't say that if I was in the same position and seen anything resembling a gun that I wouldn't freak out and shot without thinking. It would take some serious levels of training to get rid of that fear.

But at the same time if I was a black guy living in America I'd probably be living in even more fear because I can get shot over nothing and the person that shot me could get nothing more than a pat on the back.

walshyn93

A homeless man made the 911 call that brought police to the convenience store where Alton Sterling was shot dead, a senior law enforcement official told CNN on Thursday.

Sterling was selling CDs early Tuesday outside the Triple S Food Mart in Baton Rouge, the official said, when the homeless man approached him and asked for money.
The man was persistent, and Sterling showed him his gun, the official said.
"I told you to leave me alone," Sterling told the man, according to the official.
The homeless man then used his cell phone to call 911, the official said.

Threatens homeless man with a gun. A real paragon of virtue there.

walshyn93

ScumLord wrote: »

He's kind of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't there. If he didn't tell he cop about the gun he'd probably be arrested.

This seems to be all too common in the states. I find it kind of hard to blame the cops. I wouldn't want to be an American police officer, they must live in fear themselves knowing they're probably surrounded at all times by armed people who hate them. It would make anyone jumpy. I can't say that if I was in the same position and seen anything resembling a gun that I wouldn't freak out and shot without thinking. It would take some serious levels of training to get rid of that fear.

But at the same time if I was a black guy living in America I'd probably be living in even more fear because I can get shot over nothing and the person that shot me could get nothing more than a pat on the back.

You're dead right. Some areas of America are like literal warzones. Gangsters drive around in convoys armed with AK47s carrying out hits. They're not even inconspicuous about it which sort of demonstrates the level of chaos.

Pic related

https://i.gyazo.com/c199ed2e4f8ae7b0bf124b30971828ba.png

I think these are colloquially known as 'rammers', they carry about 8 lads each all armed to the teeth.

Now try and tell me you wouldn't be a little jumpy as a cop in Chicago.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

ScumLord wrote: »

He's kind of damned if he does and damned if he doesn't there. If he didn't tell he cop about the gun he'd probably be arrested.

This seems to be all too common in the states. I find it kind of hard to blame the cops. I wouldn't want to be an American police officer, they must live in fear themselves knowing they're probably surrounded at all times by armed people who hate them. It would make anyone jumpy. I can't say that if I was in the same position and seen anything resembling a gun that I wouldn't freak out and shot without thinking. It would take some serious levels of training to get rid of that fear.

But at the same time if I was a black guy living in America I'd probably be living in even more fear because I can get shot over nothing and the person that shot me could get nothing more than a pat on the back.

Yeah, I saw someone describe the situation as a 'scrambled egg', which I thought was good. You can't unscramble an egg and "take away guns" is a stupidly simplistic take on the matter. It's so tied up with issues of race, poverty and inequality, gang culture and so on. The cops in most of the videos of these incidents are very obviously terrified, presumably the men who end up shot are too, and terrified people make terrible decisions.

walshyn93

Apparently this is the arrest record. None of this makes it okay, but it does help colour our imagination about what might have happened leading directly up to the shooting.

9/09/96 aggravated battery
10/31/97 2nd degree battery
1/06/98 simple battery
5/04/00 public intimidation
9/20/00 carnal knowledge of a juvenile
9/04/01 domestic violence
5/24/05 burglary of an inhabited dwelling place
7/11/05 receiving stolen things
9/12/05 burglary of inhabited dwelling place
3/17/06 simple criminal damage to property, simple robbery, simple theft, drug possession, misrepresentation during booking, simple battery, aggravated battery
4/12/06 aggravated battery, simple criminal damage to property, disturbing the peace, unauthorized entry
4/04/08 domestic abuse battery
6/03/09 resisting an officer, drug possession, receiving stolen things, possession of stolen firearm, illegal carrying of a weapon with CDs, sound reproduct without consent
10/12/09 illegal carrying of weapon, marijuana possession
8/13/15 failure to register as a sex offender
4/08/16 failure to register as a sex offender
6/14/16 ecstacy and marijuana possession

Its dead Jim

walshyn93 wrote: »

Threatens homeless man with a gun. A real paragon of virtue there.

Luckily the police turned up to issue him with the death penalty. Why bother with court at all.

walshyn93

Its dead Jim wrote: »

Luckily the police turned up to issue him with the death penalty. Why bother with court at all.

Yeah, they strapped him to the chair then and there.

PucaMama

One was a pedophile, his death is hardly something to lose sleep over

Its dead Jim

walshyn93 wrote: »

Yeah, they strapped him to the chair then and there.

No, they shot them. With all the research you were doing trying to excuse the cops did that not come up anywhere?

ceadaoin.

PucaMama wrote: »

One was a pedophile, his death is hardly something to lose sleep over

He shouldn't have been shot based on what we've seen. A full investigation should be conducted and the officers held responsible. I'm not going to pretend that the death of violent child rapist is a loss to society though. I've seen articles trying to pull on the heartstrings painting him as a good person and father. No mention that he has a long history of violence and impregnated an underage girl

Rothmans

ceadaoin. wrote: »

He shouldn't have been shot based on what we've seen. A full investigation should be conducted and the officers held responsible. I'm not going to pretend that the death of violent child rapist is a loss to society though. I've seen articles trying to pull on the heartstrings painting him as a good person and father. No mention that he has a long history of violence and impregnated an underage girl

A known violent criminal reaches for his gun when told not to. What else could the police officer have done?

walshyn93

Its dead Jim wrote: »

No, they shot them. With all the research you were doing trying to excuse the cops did that not come up anywhere?

Just pointing out how ridiculous it is to conflate a defensive use of lethal force with the death penalty is all.

Its dead Jim

walshyn93 wrote: »

Just pointing out how ridiculous it is to conflate a defensive use of lethal force with the death penalty is all.

Then what do previous convictions have to do with it?

In one of the cases the man was told to reach for something, then got shot when he did. How was that defensive use of lethal force?

LightsStillOn

Philando Castile was shot and killed while his daughter was in the backseat of the car. The officer who did that is absolute scum, there is something seriously wrong with the police over there.

Hans Bricks

walshyn93 wrote: »

Apparently this is the arrest record. None of this makes it okay, but it does help colour our imagination about what might have happened leading directly up to the shooting.

The #BLM brigade really know how to pick their martyrs sometimes eh ?

kneemos

LightsStillOn wrote: »

Philando Castile was shot and killed while his daughter was in the backseat of the car. The officer who did that is absolute scum, there is something seriously wrong with the police over there.

Publicly executed for not doing what your told bascially.

walshyn93

Its dead Jim wrote: »

Then what do previous convictions have to do with it?

In one of the cases the man was told to reach for something, then got shot when he did. How was that defensive use of lethal force?

I'm obviously not talking about that case. Try to stay on topic and don't move the goalposts whenever it suits. Previous convictions might be of interests to people looking at the case. I already said it has no bearing on the legality of the polices' actions. That much is obvious to any honest person reading my posts.

wes

ceadaoin. wrote: »

He was on probabtion at the time of his death so wasn't allowed to hold a firearm. He was also a sex offender with convictions for domestic violence so that would probably stop him getting a gun also. I know in my state a record of domestic violence stops you legally obtaining a gun.

If the gun was being held illegally, then surely there should be a police statement to that effect.

LightsStillOn

kneemos wrote: »

Publicly executed for not doing what your told bascially.

The ironic thing being, from what I've read about it, he was reaching for his drivers license as instructed by the cop. Boggles the mind.

walshyn93

wes wrote: »

If the gun was being held illegally, then surely there should be a police statement to that effect.

Why would there have to be a police statement to that effect and how do you know there isn't one?

wes

walshyn93 wrote: »

Why would there have to be a police statement to that effect and how do you know there isn't one?

Surely, if the police shot a man, and the firearm was illegally obtained, it would be a pertinent point of information to present to the public. Secondly, people are saying that due to his record, he probably didn't legally obtain the firearm. Which may very well be true, but US gun laws vary a great deal. So I was wondering was there information that shows that to be the case, and I would expect a police report into the matter to have such information as it would be a pertinent detail surely

racso1975

Can I ask a question and there is no hidden agenda here. Well just that i am too lazy to research it more.

There appears to be more white people shot by cops in America. There is also a significant amount of Hispanics and Native Americans shot, yet it appears to me the black people being murdered receives a lot more publicity.

Is this because:

a)in a lot of cases they are shot by white cops?
b) More likey to be wrongfully shot?
c) Have a very vocal rights groups that hop on it?

Its dead Jim

walshyn93 wrote: »

I'm obviously not talking about that case. Try to stay on topic and don't move the goalposts whenever it suits. Previous convictions might be of interests to people looking at the case. I already said it has no bearing on the legality of the polices' actions. That much is obvious to any honest person reading my posts.

I am on topic, it's in the OP. Just because you can't find any excuses for it being his own fault doesn't mean it's off topic.

walshyn93

Its dead Jim wrote: »

I am on topic, it's in the OP. Just because you can't find any excuses for it being his own fault doesn't mean it's off topic.

I never said the man shot with his wife and daughter was justified. I don't think it was based on what I've seen so far. It's possible to think one was justified and one was not. It's not a package deal. The ability to treat different cases as separate issues seems lost on some.

walshyn93

racso1975 wrote: »

Can I ask a question and there is no hidden agenda here. Well just that i am too lazy to research it more.

There appears to be more white people shot by cops in America. There is also a significant amount of Hispanics and Native Americans shot, yet it appears to me the black people being murdered receives a lot more publicity.

Is this because:

a)in a lot of cases they are shot by white cops?
b) More likey to be wrongfully shot?
c) Have a very vocal rights groups that hop on it?

There was a white kid shot for driving away after being caught buying weed recently. It was caught on video, it made a little bit of news, the cop got away with it and there were no protests. Some people just hate cops over there and want to keep the flame of white racism alive to increase their political capital. If it weren't for the preponderance of black men electing to commit suicide by cop a good many of them would be out of a job or have nothing to do with themselves.

walshyn93

walshyn93 wrote: »

If it weren't for the preponderance of black men electing to commit suicide by cop a good many of them would be out of a job or have nothing to do with themselves.

Any stats to back up this claim of a "preponderance of black men to commit 'suicide by cop'"?

Muir

racso1975 wrote: »

Can I ask a question and there is no hidden agenda here. Well just that i am too lazy to research it more.

There appears to be more white people shot by cops in America. There is also a significant amount of Hispanics and Native Americans shot, yet it appears to me the black people being murdered receives a lot more publicity.

Is this because:

a)in a lot of cases they are shot by white cops?
b) More likey to be wrongfully shot?
c) Have a very vocal rights groups that hop on it?

When you take into consideration the population sizes black men are more likely to be shot by police than white men.

Potential-Monke

The Baton Rouge video, I believe, does not show the full picture. I'm pretty sure that as someone else said, he reached for his gun and that's why he was shot. Granted, he was already on the ground, but people can still shoot while being subdued. A single shot is all it takes to end the life of an officer, so, in my opinion, if this was the case, it's justified. It's simple mathematics, 2 cops vs 1 pos (person of suspect), if one of the cops thinks he or his partner is going to be shot, they will take approtriate action. This doesn't mean lethal, but when you shoot for the largest mass, it's usually a by product.

Second video, I think needs more clarification. So far, we have the wife of the man who was shot live streaming a video. This is one side, one perspective, which can legally be argued is biased. Until we see more footage, preferably the cops chest cam, I can't make a call on it. Remember, people who make videos usually have an agenda. Not saying this lady had, but without more evidence stating that the cop was in the wrong is guilty until proven innocent. That's not how it works. The cop did sound genuinely shocked that he shot someone though.

I like reading articles like these. I like to get all the facts and then make a judgement, but so many people jump to conclusions without all the evidence. I read a good article by an retired cop in America. He basically stated that modern technology, that is CCTV, mobile cameras and chest cams, are going to help the cops in the long rung, but noted that it should not be the only evidence a defence or prosection relies on. Sometimes, the cop sees something that no one else did, as it could happen in a split second, and may not be caught on camera. Call it a cop-out (pun not intended), but in my experience, that can be the case.

So, I believe the Baton Rouge incident was justified, and until we get more evidence from the second video, i'll reserve my judgement.

wakka12

walshyn93 wrote: »

Tbf you don't know what you'd be doing in that situation.

I don't care how high horsey I sound but I can 100% guarantee I wouldnt do nothing to try and stop my loved one from dying no matter what the situation, like what even the ****, I don't care what the circumstances or how little she can do to help him or how shocked she is her behaviour is completely ****ed up