Console. Charity, Irish-style

gctest50

selastich2 wrote: »

t's a sympathy racket, master manipulators at work

Racket on a massive scale :

https://www.facebook.com/DonnellyforWicklow/videos/1318934644813214/


Mars Capital - the company that bought the mortgages of Irish families from IBRC at a 58% discount - is owned by a children's charity.


From Leaders Questions: "Last week I showed how a U.S. vulture fund structured its Irish subsidiary, Mars Capital, to avoid paying taxes in Ireland on its Irish profits.

I now believe that these vulture funds are about to pull off the largest avoidance of tax on Irish profits in the history of the State.

Irish charities are being used to play a key part in this tax avoidance.

Mars Capital is owned by a registered charity called the Matheson Foundation.
The stated mission of the charity is ‘helping Irish children to fulfil their potential.’
It contributes to causes including ISPCC, Barnardos and the Temple Street Children’s Hospital. The Charity does not mention its ownership of Mars Capital.

brooke 2

Discussing Console on Pat Kenny Newstalk at the moment. Fergus Finlay, CEO of Bernardo's, is on the board of the regulator, apparently. Is not this a conflict of interest? Karl Deeter also mentioned, in passing, that Bernardo's has received €15m from American philanthropies in the past. Going to stop in the future.

Edit: That sounded like a lot of money to me. Thought Deeter might have said this to get a reaction from Finlay,
but it was near the end of the item. IIRC, Finlay cut back on some services a few years ago, citing insufficient funds.

2RockMountain

brooke 2 wrote: »

Discussing Console on Pat Kenny Newstalk at the moment. Fergus Finlay, CEO of Bernardo's, is on the board of the regulator, apparently. Is not this a conflict of interest?

You could also ask the same question about the (former, I think) Rehab Group fundraiser on the board.

brooke 2 wrote: »

Karl Deeter also mentioned, in passing, that Bernardo's has received €15m from American philanthropies in the past. Going to stop in the future.

What is the significance of this point?

selastich2

finlays on the regulator?


jesus christ

Shint0

2RockMountain wrote: »

You could also ask the same question about the (former, I think) Rehab Group fundraiser on the board.


What is the significance of this point?

I think the point might be in relation to the article referred to on this page which suggests there is a link between the Matheson foundation which contributes to Barnardos and Mars Capital, a subsidary of a US vulture fund. Stephen Donnelly is suggesting there may be a potential for huge tax avoidance there and charities are possibly being used unwittingly for that purpose. That's my reading of it anyway.

corglass

There's a lot of talk recently about how charities are regulated but in the US they've developed a pretty neat and very transparent website that lists all national charities and details their overall score based on
Financial Performance Metrics
Accountability & Transparency Performance Metrics etc.


Surely something like this is needed in Ireland or does it already exist?


http://www.charitynavigator.org

brooke 2

brooke 2 wrote: »

Discussing Console on Pat Kenny Newstalk at the moment. Fergus Finlay, CEO of Bernardo's, is on the board of the regulator, apparently.

No, there's a difference between being on the board of an organisation, and carrying out an executive function.

It's common for non-executive board members of regulatory authorities to be chosen from the sector under regulation.

Take the UK's Pensions Regulator as an example. A few of their non-executive board members are pensions experts, or work in equities/ investing, and a few are consumer rights experts.

They have a role in guiding the overall direction of the organisation, but have no control over day-to-day regulation or executive decision-making.

brooke 2

selastich2 wrote: »

finlays on the regulator?


jesus christ

Not the only charity CEO on it, I've since discovered. How can the Charities Regulator effectively regulate organisations when the CEOs of those organisations are on the board?

brooke 2

2RockMountain wrote: »

You could also ask the same question about the (former, I think) Rehab Group fundraiser on the board.


What is the significance of this point?

I edited the above remark.

brooke 2

Shint0 wrote: »

I think the point might be in relation to the article referred to on this page which suggests there is a link between the Matheson foundation which contributes to Barnardos and Mars Capital, a subsidary of a US vulture fund. Stephen Donnelly is suggesting there may be a potential for huge tax avoidance there and charities are possibly being used unwittingly for that purpose. That's my reading of it anyway.

Barnardos is only one of a number of charities to benefit from this exercise. Great work done by Stephen Donnelly.

Separately, it is really a farce to have the CEOs of so many charities on the board of the Charities Regulator. Such
blatant and shameless conflict of interest! I despair!!

Spanish Eyes

How is Paul Kelly now I wonder. Is he recovered yet, or does he need to stay in the psychiatric hospital until things are investigated properly? Great defence there. I was sick, I didn't know what I was doing la la la.

Angela Kerins of Rehab did exactly the same thing. Although she took a few smarties and a shedload of gin to "self harm" whilst sitting beside the phone waiting for her ex colleague from Rehab to rescue her from certain demise.

Honestly.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Angela Kerins of Rehab did exactly the same thing. Although she took a few smarties and a shedload of gin to "self harm" whilst sitting beside the phone waiting for her ex colleague from Rehab to rescue her from certain demise.

Have you no compassion?

We were all annoyed about the Rehab controversy, it was quite disgraceful. But nobody here has lost a night's sleep over it. We move on. There's no need to be so harsh to a woman who attempted to take her own life.

keith16

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Have you no compassion?

We were all annoyed about the Rehab controversy, it was quite disgraceful. But nobody here has lost a night's sleep over it. We move on. There's no need to be so harsh to a woman who attempted to take her own life.

I have no compassion for her people like her.

Mary63

I wonder was the ex colleague Frank Flannery.

I don't have much sympathy either,what was the problem with just answering the questions.The suicide attempt looked like looking for a sympathy card,she didn't get one because people are so sickened by the Kelly circus and Paul Kelly hiding out in a physchiatric ward that they took their anger out on Kerins too.

Plenty of people never sleep at night A Tyrant because of their disabilities and we all gave money in good faith because we realise how fortunate we are to have good health.We don't move on,we remember Rehab and the carry on and then we hear about Console which is even worse.

How are we supposed to move on when we know no one in Authority is taking action to prevent this happening again.

Mary63

Mary63 wrote: »

I don't have much sympathy either,what was the problem with just answering the questions.The suicide attempt looked like looking for a sympathy card,she didn't get one because people are so sickened by the Kelly circus and Paul Kelly hiding out in a physchiatric ward that they took their anger out on Kerins too.

There's no evidence that Paul Kelly is not genuinely ill.

For people who claim to be upset at deception and mismanagement in these charities, we're very quick to abuse people who have been admitted to psychiatric hospitals, including one person who has attempted suicide under the strain.

Next you'll be repeating the implication that it was a fake suicide attempt.

All the more ironic that such awful awful allegations are made in the supposed interests of mental health. You couldn't make it up.

Plenty of people never sleep at night A Tyrant because of their disabilities

Of course they do, but I'm quite sure that none of us here have lost sleep over the Rehab controversy or the Console controversy.

We're angry, yes, but we can still have some human compassion for someone who has attempted to take their own life. We can still be angry whilst we have compassion. We can walk & chew gum at the same time.

FalconGirl

I believe the failure of Ireland to tackle white collar crime over decades has indirectly been one of the factors in many suicides.

It sickens people so see such blatant wrongdoing which have significant impacts on peoples lives go unpunished.

Mary63

Paul Kellys illness came on him all of a sudden and he seemed to get out and about to restaurants fairly regularly for one so ill.

He was able to check out of the hospital for a night to sort out a few bits and bobs and then go back in.Most people who are in need of a bed
are literally falling apart and incapable of making any decisions.

Both Kelly and kerns managed to hold down CEOs positions for many a long year without any effect on their mental health,we know Kelly travelled the world and ate out constantly and yet when there were questions to be answered both checked out until the heat died down.

I don't have any compassion at all for either,they have destroyed the good name of the charity sector and now no one is donating,this means the weak and the vulnerable are going to suffer even more.Shame on both of them.

Shint0

In any event it will be interesting to see the outcome of the High Court action and what implications it might have for how the PAC conducts an investigation should the action be successful.

Lady is a tramp

Mary63 wrote: »

Paul Kellys illness came on him all of a sudden and he seemed to get out and about to restaurants fairly regularly for one so ill.

He was able to check out of the hospital for a night to sort out a few bits and bobs and then go back in.Most people who are in need of a bed
are literally falling apart and incapable of making any decisions.

Both Kelly and kerns managed to hold down CEOs positions for many a long year without any effect on their mental health,we know Kelly travelled the world and ate out constantly and yet when there were questions to be answered both checked out until the heat died down.

I don't have any compassion at all for either,they have destroyed the good name of the charity sector and now no one is donating,this means the weak and the vulnerable are going to suffer even more.Shame on both of them.

Ah here.

I'd be the first to say that anyone (with a mental condition) can/will check into a private psychiatric hospital quite easliy.

Leave is encouraged - it's all about building the person up to the demands they face outside. Because (unfortunately!) they'll always be there, no matter how sick you are.

I do know from experience. I wish I didn't ... but, fact is, the way I've felt at my worst, I wouldn't EVER wish on my worst enemy at his worst moments.

I'm sorry but at the risk of a ban, I'm with the majority here.
These people are eating in 5 star restaurants, going on long haul trips and buying flash clothes etc, sneering up their sleeves at your average Joe punchclock!!

You can see them hosting and toasting each other at the expense of tax payer and people in dire straits alike

"oh dear, those bankers have really come a cropper, I say ol bean, hows the charity sector for regulation???.. Why it's as easy as bootlegging my dear chap!!! oh aren't we quite the pair, it seems so easy, it's dare we say....criminal???? tut tut, pour the brandy and I'll open the cubans!!!!

ZERO sympathy, the world is better off without them to be fair. How ironic that he's close to suicide, the very state of mind he's been exploiting. And that other yoke may need rehab after of all her TRAUMA, if these ****ers are to be believed...

just part of the Ivor callely, fingers fingleton, Brendan drum, class of 71!!!
The likes of these scumbags, sold apartments that were fire hazards, financed by bailed out bankers, who chased the poor little guy for payments on a mortgage covering a demolished property!! the family have no house, the kids have no father (killed himself with stress and maybe cos he thought the insurance was the only way out) while the developer opens up shop across the road, the bank has its money, (thank you insurance) and they all move on.

I know the latter is unrelated but we all see the pattern...point being, white collars never get dirty it seems, while they can get someone to hide the stains!! it's all coming out in the wash now and poor Kelly and kearns can't stand the smell of their own filth!!!
In fact its so toxic, it's making them literally ILL!!!!

suicide_circus

^^^^ and do you know what? It's the dissatisfaction of ordinary people with the inequity of the way society is run for the benefit of a small cabal of elites and their ilk that cause people to vote brexit, Donny Trump, independents/AAA/PBP etc etc.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades!

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

There's no evidence that Paul Kelly is not genuinely ill.

It seems very opportune but if that's what his medical experts say, well in fairness health really comes first. And obviously very serious accusations will cause stress.

Hopefully in a few weeks he will be well enough to face all the questions that must come his way as soon as he is discharged.

Shint0

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems very opportune but if that's what his medical experts say, well in fairness health really comes first. And obviously very serious accusations will cause stress.

Hopefully in a few weeks he will be well enough to face all the questions that must come his way as soon as he is discharged.

There is always the famous Rosenhan Experiment where psychiatric care facilities assessed and diagnosed patients based on symptoms presented and behavioral signs observed.

The 'patients' were researchers posing as individuals experiencing mental health difficulties as part of an investigation to determine if it is possible to fake psychiatric symptoms and receive a diagnosis. The findings seem to suggest this can happen.

I am not suggesting this in relation to any of the individuals referred to in recent posts here but it is a famous study.

Two Tone

CatFromHue wrote: »

yeah I wondered that too.

Obsession with saying "Ireland is worse for everything" here I suppose.

CMOTDibbler

Shint0 wrote: »

There is always the famous Rosenhan Experiment where psychiatric care facilities assessed and diagnosed patients based on symptoms presented and behavioral signs observed.

The 'patients' were researchers posing as individuals experiencing mental health difficulties as part of an investigation to determine if it is possible to fake psychiatric symptoms and receive a diagnosis. The findings seem to suggest this can happen.

I am not suggesting this in relation to any of the individuals referred to in recent posts here but it is a famous study.

Researchers would know the symptoms to fake and how to manipulate the diagnosis. That would not be the same for an ordinary person without the requisite training.

Two Tone

rusty cole wrote: »

How ironic that he's close to suicide, the very state of mind he's been exploiting. And that other yoke may need rehab after of all her TRAUMA, if these ****ers are to be believed

Stuff like this is enraging. Funnily enough, suicidal or traumatised *after* they get caught. So it is the "getting caught" that has them traumatised, the "getting caught" doing what they should not have been doing, but they chose to... so it is their own fault that they are feeling "suicidal" and "traumatised".

How dare they try to deflect from what they have done, and manipulate people into feeling sorry for them, by pretending they are suddenly in the same category as desperate, traumatised people living in despair, due to *actual* trauma that was not of their doing.

Simon2015

Shint0 wrote: »

There is always the famous Rosenhan Experiment where psychiatric care facilities assessed and diagnosed patients based on symptoms presented and behavioral signs observed.

The 'patients' were researchers posing as individuals experiencing mental health difficulties as part of an investigation to determine if it is possible to fake psychiatric symptoms and receive a diagnosis. The findings seem to suggest this can happen.

I am not suggesting this in relation to any of the individuals referred to in recent posts here but it is a famous study.

It's easy to fake a psychiatric illness many criminals have done it to avoid jail.

The problem is once someone is diagnosed as insane it can be very hard to prove they are sane even if they were just making the whole thing up.

Mary63

The beds in the private hospitals cost a lot of money and they need to be filled.

Its probably easy enough to get one if you hang around Dunlaoghaire pier long enough.

If Paul Kelly hadn't private medical insurance he wouldn't be in John of Gods.He can stay there until his VHI cover runs out.The VHI will pay for about 180 nights,after that Kelly will have to pay himself.

He won't be diagnosed insane,its just the Gardai can't get at him while he is under the care of the hospital.

Two Tone

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

For people who claim to be upset at deception and mismanagement in these charities, we're very quick to abuse people who have been admitted to psychiatric hospitals, including one person who has attempted suicide under the strain.

What do you mean "claim" to be upset, who's the "we" and who are the other "people" besides Paul Kelly that "we" are very quick to abuse who have been admitted to psychiatric hospital?

Next you'll be repeating the implication that it was a fake suicide attempt.

Well he has been known to fake stuff.

All the more ironic that such awful awful allegations are made in the supposed interests of mental health. You couldn't make it up

You could really, and it's not that shocking now is it? Other depressed, anxious people who are suicidal have not done what he did. How come he wasn't suicidal before he was caught? He was OK with his shady carry-on before he got caught - now he has been caught he cannot face the music. If he has fallen apart, it's not nice for him and I hope he doesn't do such a thing, but it is entirely his own doing.

I'm sure we all know at least one person who is narcissistic enough to think that when justified criticism of them is based on their own doings, people are just being mean to them, and ok they did wrong but now they're caught and being made to feel bad about it, so they're really the victim so time to deflect. This seems like an example of same.

YFlyer

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

Researchers would know the symptoms to fake and how to manipulate the diagnosis. That would not be the same for an ordinary person without the requisite training.

Well he was a doctor for a brief period.