DB Pay Rises sought

_Kaiser_

Ultimately it comes down to this.. if you don't like your job, the wages, the hours, the conditions, the benefits etc.. certainly ask but if not forthcoming, leave and find something that will give you what you want!

The nonsensical idea that people should get wage increases "just cause", or because "them over there got more money" just smacks of ridiculous entitlement from a workforce that thinks it's special. It's bus driving not brain surgery. Sure there's the traffic and the antisocial element (both real concerns yes) but in the end, no-one is FORCING them to do the job either. They could try some of the private operators, maybe BE or the long distance companies, or maybe something completely different!

DB (in theory anyway) is there to provide a public city bus service at an affordable cost and at a dependable service level. It's not meant to be (and shouldn't be) some sort of job scheme. If they think LUAS drivers have a better deal then let them apply to be LUAS drivers. Threatening disruption if they don't get their way is like a child throwing a tantrum and it'll only alienate even more passengers (who are paying these wages) who will then find alternative transport themselves. In short it's a self-defeating exercise that won't win them any support (either from the public or Government).

ted1

lxflyer wrote: »

Why?

Just get a card and keep it in your wallet, and set up auto top up.

Ultimately if you want to be daft enough to pay a significantly higher cash fare, that's up to you, but a much cheaper option is available.

You can't have it both ways.

Any comparison of fares between times past and now should be with the current LEAP fare as that's the standard these days.

What about people in Dublin for a short while ? That 2.70 is more often 3 euro as they don't give change

LXFlyer

ted1 wrote: »

What about people in Dublin for a short while ? That 2.70 is more often 3 euro as they don't give change

Well they either buy a LEAP card, use it and claim the refundable deposit back, or use a visitor LEAP card, or they take the hit.

How do people cope in London where there is no cash on buses at all? Answer - they must get an Oyster card.

LXFlyer

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

all sunk costs which would be incurred by the poster anyway. fuel, parking and a very small maintenance per km is the only applicable cost for comparison

Not necessarily - I don't possess a car. I know quite a few people in the same boat. People don't always have a car by necessity.

Therefore all those items could well be an opportunity cost.

Fattes

lxflyer wrote: »

Not necessarily - I don't possess a car. I know quite a few people in the same boat. People don't always have a car by necessity.

Therefore all those items could well be an opportunity cost.

No opportunity cost if you have and need a car. A large % of the population do have private transport. Dublin is the only city I have lived where I feel I need private transport. Zurich, Boston, London, Berlin. I never needed or wanted a car.

LXFlyer

Fattes wrote: »

No opportunity cost if you have and need a car. A large % of the population do have private transport. Dublin is the only city I have lived where I feel I need private transport. Zurich, Boston, London, Berlin. I never needed or wanted a car.

I did clearly state that they were opportunity costs for anyone who did not need to have a car - and I happen to know quite a few people in that situation.

The other poster seemed to be making a blanket assumption that everyone needs to have a car in Dublin.

Fattes

lxflyer wrote: »

I did clearly state that they were opportunity costs for anyone who did not need to have a car - and I happen to know quite a few people in that situation.

The other poster seemed to be making a blanket assumption that everyone needs to have a car in Dublin.

No its based on the fact that the vast majority of people in Ireland, have access to a vehicle and ownership is highest in the Dublin area, & other transport options. How that impacts DB cost and the decisions people make when deciding, on options to travel in Dublin. Increased costs as a result of a high wage rise will lead to a number of scenarios. Those in the inner city between the canals where car ownership is lowest, are likely to avail of other forms of transport over Dublin bus if cost rise. Those in the suburbs where car ownership is higher are more likely to use that option if fares increase.

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

I did clearly state that they were opportunity costs for anyone who did not need to have a car - and I happen to know quite a few people in that situation.

and for that minority using the bus iss clearly the obvious option, though cycling would be a nicer and probably quicker option for most people too. I used to do Killiney to Donnybrook faster than the 7 or 7B could manage

lxflyer wrote: »

The other poster seemed to be making a blanket assumption that everyone needs to have a car in Dublin.

who, me? certainly not.

howiya

luckybag wrote: »

If unsatisfactory result Thursday, it will be followed by a work to rule.
Expect travel chaos, the public have no idea how much DB driver do above and beyond what they are supposed to do.
In fact a work to rule will be more problematic for the public than a strike, with a strike you know the bus is not running and can make plans, with a work to rule, any bus, any time might not run.

a work to rule must already be in place so. this is a regular occurrence on routes I use

Kyleboy

howiya wrote: »

a work to rule must already be in place so. this is a regular occurrence on routes I use

No work to rule on any routes yet, as soon as the pay offer is rejected the work to rule will begin

thomasj

The payrises may be last thing on the mind of a couple of broadstone drivers come tomorrow...

howiya

Kyleboy wrote: »

No work to rule on any routes yet, as soon as the pay offer is rejected the work to rule will begin

How will I notice the difference?

Kyleboy

howiya wrote: »

How will I notice the difference?

Your bus won't show up

howiya

Kyleboy wrote: »

Your bus won't show up

No difference really so

L1011

Vic_08 wrote: »

Ah, yes. The Magic car that was free to purchase, has a zero tax rate, free insurance and runs forever with no maintenance.

I'm from The Absolute Sticks - despite living in a commuter suburb, I own a car for the purpose of getting home occasionally. Bought new 8 years ago and coincidentally probably reached its bottom value about 2 years ago as its obscure enough to retain value; so only maintenance costs exist at all. Even if I take public transport to work every day as I have done in the recent past and currently do, the opportunity cost of the car is basically non-existent.

This creates a situation where, if I'm attending an event in the city that's less than a few hours (or any length at weekends when on-street parking is often free), its cheaper to drive in than take any form of public transport.

DB fares aren't the biggest problem, though. IR fares are obscene for the service they provide when compared to the baseline of Irish fares - comparing to UK commuter ones is inevitable done when this is mentioned but you find overcrowded half-hourly services at peak compared to 5 minute frequencies and so on.

Kyleboy

howiya wrote: »

No difference really so

If you say so.

punisher5112

L1011 wrote: »

I'm from The Absolute Sticks - despite living in a commuter suburb, I own a car for the purpose of getting home occasionally. Bought new 8 years ago and coincidentally probably reached its bottom value about 2 years ago as its obscure enough to retain value; so only maintenance costs exist at all. Even if I take public transport to work every day as I have done in the recent past and currently do, the opportunity cost of the car is basically non-existent.

This creates a situation where, if I'm attending an event in the city that's less than a few hours (or any length at weekends when on-street parking is often free), its cheaper to drive in than take any form of public transport.

DB fares aren't the biggest problem, though. IR fares are obscene for the service they provide when compared to the baseline of Irish fares - comparing to UK commuter ones is inevitable done when this is mentioned but you find overcrowded half-hourly services at peak compared to 5 minute frequencies and so on.

How are you running a car free?

Cost of fuel, tax, insurance,nct and maintenance tyres etc.

Bus travel isn't at outrages prices and I'm not really getting the ir argument as train fares are very high in the UK

L1011

punisher5112 wrote: »

How are you running a car free?

Cost of fuel, tax, insurance,nct and maintenance tyres etc.

Bus travel isn't at outrages prices and I'm not really getting the ir argument as train fares are very high in the UK

Tax/insurance/nct are fully covered by owning the damn thing for other purposes, as I explained if you read my post properly which you clearly didn't.

All that is used is fuel use and marginal maintenance costs. Still cheaper than PT fares; and if I have passengers the calculation gets even more ridiculous.

I also said - if you'd read my post properly, which you clearly didn't - that comparing the utter crap we're served here to far superior UK services is not valid.

Please read posts properly before bashing out replies.

lxflyer wrote: »

How do people cope in London where there is no cash on buses at all? Answer - they must get an Oyster card.

No, they can use a contactless debit card which basically everyone bar Americans already have. A proper system was brought in rather than the fudge here.

howiya

Kyleboy wrote: »

If you say so.

You've said buses won't turn up if there is a work to rule. I've pointed out that buses not turning up is a regular occurrence anyway. Another poster has started a thread about the unreliability of buses today. The Dublin Bus Twitter account is full of tweets responding to people looking for missing buses.

So it's not just if I say so

Kyleboy

howiya wrote: »

You've said buses won't turn up if there is a work to rule. I've pointed out that buses not turning up is a regular occurrence anyway. Another poster has started a thread about the unreliability of buses today. The Dublin Bus Twitter account is full of tweets responding to people looking for missing buses.

So it's not just if I say so

OK sorry, you and your mates so.

howiya

Kyleboy wrote: »

OK sorry, you and your mates so.

Great argument

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

No, they can use a contactless debit card which basically everyone bar Americans already have. A proper system was brought in rather than the fudge here.

For that to happen here, contactless cards would have to be the norm.

At least one major bank has yet to roll them out in Ireland.

Non-UK visitors to London using contactless cards face additional charges for every day that they use them, that can be avoided by using an Oyster card.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

For that to happen here, contactless cards would have to be the norm.

At least one major bank has yet to roll them out in Ireland.

Non-UK visitors to London using contactless cards face additional charges for every day that they use them, that can be avoided by using an Oyster card.

Still means your "must" was inaccurate

Kyleboy

howiya wrote: »

Great argument

Thanks

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

Still means your "must" was inaccurate

Well if we are getting into point scoring semantics, then I humbly apologise. They "should" get an Oyster card.

Using a foreign based contactless bank card would, as I mentioned above, incur extra unnecessary bank charges per day.

The ability to use contactless bank cards in London was introduced long after Oyster had successfully bedded in, and the buses only went cashless after the contactless bank card facilty was rolled out successfully.

We're only getting to the point where LEAP is becoming the norm now - we've still some way to go.

The NTA have already indicated that they plan to go down the contactless bank card route, but as I already mentioned, it won't become the norm for anytime yet due to contactless cards not even started to be rolled out by one of the three major clearing banks.

L1011

lxflyer wrote: »

Well if we are getting into point scoring semantics, then I humbly apologise. They "should" get an Oyster card.

Correcting a clanging error is not "points scoring". You made a completely untrue claim.

Every feature of Leap including the introduction of the card itself has been unacceptably late. Trying to blame the banks for the decision to write a system from scratch rather than buying a mature off the shelf one doesn't wash.

LXFlyer

L1011 wrote: »

Correcting a clanging error is not "points scoring". You made a completely untrue claim.

Every feature of Leap including the introduction of the card itself has been unacceptably late. Trying to blame the banks for the decision to write a system from scratch rather than buying a mature off the shelf one doesn't wash.

Ok, I should have used "should", it was an unintended mistake on my part, rather a deliberate clanging error/completely untrue claim. There's no need to be so agressive about it. I am human!

However, I don't think that the actual rollout has been late - once contracts were awarded it has been rolled out in a phased basis pretty much as the NTA planned it.

Prior to the contracts being awarded I'd agree, there were indeed all sorts of unnacceptable delays due to arguments over funding primarily that was down to politics and turf wars.

I'm not blaming the banks for anything - I'm just saying that the introduction of contactless cards here is less practical due to the fact that at least one bank hasn't even started rolling them out!

Cookie_Monster

lxflyer wrote: »

The NTA have already indicated that they plan to go down the contactless bank card route, but as I already mentioned, it won't become the norm for anytime yet due to contactless cards not even started to be rolled out by one of the three major clearing banks.

OT but I find that ridiculous, contact less is already old hat and being replaced by your smart phone being bank card enabled over here!
Get with the times already banks.

galwaytt

punisher5112 wrote: »

How are you running a car free?

Cost of fuel, tax, insurance,nct and maintenance tyres etc.

Bus travel isn't at outrages prices and I'm not really getting the ir argument as train fares are very high in the UK

I live between two rural stations: Craughwell and Athenry. Both go right into Eyre Square where my S.O. works, and it would be ideal.

However, IR fares are ridiculous. It costs less to run a car into town every day, pay for contract parking, including diesel etc, than to buy an IR train ticket. It's just bananas.

Similiarly, I have occasion to take the family to Dublin, and my sister is bringing hers. With 2 families of 4, it is still cheaper to drive 2 cars to Dublin, park them, and drive back, than to take the train.

Zero incentive to use rail.

Stephen15

Seriously when the luas went people who were fortunate to live near a luas was acting like it was armaeggoden but when the last bus strike was on nobody really cared that much. Even though buses serve far more people than the luas.