Season 7 - Speculation Thread - "Book readers"

awec

The only people who knew about LF betraying Ned were Ned Stark, LF, Janos Slynt and Cersei. Varys presumably knows.

I don't think Tyrion knows, he wasn't in Kings Landing when it happened. Nor was Jaime.

NewCorkLad

awec wrote: »

The only people who knew about LF betraying Ned were Ned Stark, LF, Janos Slynt and Cersei. Varys presumably knows.

I don't think Tyrion knows, he wasn't in Kings Landing when it happened. Nor was Jaime.

But Tyrion knows that Littlefinger lied about the dagger which led to Tyrion being imprisioned and kicked off the whole war between the Starks and Lannisters.

Ben Gadot

awec wrote: »

The only people who knew about LF betraying Ned were Ned Stark, LF, Janos Slynt and Cersei. Varys presumably knows.

I don't think Tyrion knows, he wasn't in Kings Landing when it happened. Nor was Jaime.

Tyrion was acting hand in the immediate aftermath, and banished Janos Slynt to the wall for his betrayal of the previous hand (Ned).

So you'd have to assume Tyrion is aware of the full picture including Baelish's involvement. Baelish was just in a more untouchable position than Slynt.

Hyzepher

it struck me that the whole Game of Thrones centres not around the Lannisters, Starks or Targaryens but around Varys and Little Finger. it is their game and i suspect the series will end with the ultimate winner being one of those two OR intervention from Sam who will save the realm from both of them.

That's why it was important for Varys to be seen on Danys ship at the end. It is he who is returning with an army. Varys on one side and Little Finger on the other. Everyone else is but a mere pawn in their little game.

Sam is the only one with the potential to see it and stop it. The White Walkers are a red herring.

D0NNELLY

Show ends with little finger losing the bet and giving varys one gold dragon.

intheclouds

Hyzepher wrote: »

it struck me that the whole Game of Thrones centres not around the Lannisters, Starks or Targaryens but around Varys and Little Finger. it is their game and i suspect the series will end with the ultimate winner being one of those two OR intervention from Sam who will save the realm from both of them.

That's why it was important for Varys to be seen on Danys ship at the end. It is he who is returning with an army. Varys on one side and Little Finger on the other. Everyone else is but a mere pawn in their little game.

Sam is the only one with the potential to see it and stop it. The White Walkers are a red herring.

Couldnt agree more, its Varys Vs Littlefinger since the beginning.

wp_rathead

Agree, Littlefinger started the War of the 5 Kings while Varys was involved with plot of getting the Targs back on Iron Throne (sorta)

With Littlefinger basically being in charge of Knights of the Vale, while Jon will probably want peace with Dany to focus on the White Walkers I can see Littlefinger stoking another war within Westeros. He will probably strike for Riverlands first seen as Freys been killed...

Shall be interesting, although with only 7 episodes next season be a lot to fit in

Paddy Cow

wp_rathead wrote: »

Agree, Littlefinger started the War of the 5 Kings while Varys was involved with plot of getting the Targs back on Iron Throne (sorta)

With Littlefinger basically being in charge of Knights of the Vale, while Jon will probably want peace with Dany to focus on the White Walkers I can see Littlefinger stoking another war within Westeros. He will probably strike for Riverlands first seen as Freys been killed...

Shall be interesting, although with only 7 episodes next season be a lot to fit in

I don't have a clue what Vary's end game is. He says he wants peace in the realm but that is at odds with putting a Targ on the throne. The last King was mad and madness is well known to run in the Targ family. Hardly the most stable people to be in charge! Plus Vary's isn't even from the seven Kingdoms. He's a foreigner and has never really been accepted as was seen at Joffrey's wedding when he told Tyrion he wasn't able to sit in the best seats as he's still considered a foreigner. He makes for a far more interesting character than LF who is simply driven by ego and a need to Lord it over all the elite who looked down on him in his youth.

I would love to see Sweet Robin throw him out of the moon door. Sansa knows that LF killed his mother and she could use it against LF. We might see LF trying to get rid of Sansa. She knows too much about him now and that makes her dangerous to him, especially after she rejected him. Catelyn rejected him and in return LF betrayed both her and Ned. I don't see LF letting affection get in the way of ambition.

wp_rathead

Ya I'm just going by Show Varys
Book Varys is an even bigger enigma

There is a theory he is a Blackfyre which might go someway to explain some of his motives and action's

GerB40

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ya I'm just going by Show Varys
Book Varys is an even bigger enigma

There is a theory he is a Blackfyre which might go someway to explain some of his motives and action's

Plus there was around 60 years between the first

Blackfyre Rebellion

and the latest one so they're clearly a patient bunch. Patience seems to be something Varys has plenty of..

Paddy Cow

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ya I'm just going by Show Varys
Book Varys is an even bigger enigma

There is a theory he is a Blackfyre which might go someway to explain some of his motives and action's

I'm not using spoilers because this is a book readers thread

I'm a bit rusty on the finer details but what is the significance of him being a Blackfyre? I don't even remember who the Blackfyre's are

GerB40

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I'm not using spoilers because this is a book readers thread

I'm a bit rusty on the finer details but what is the significance of him being a Blackfyre? I don't even remember who the Blackfyre's are

There's a fairly good explanation of The Blackfyre's and their significance in this video https://youtu.be/pH6E6jyUSBc

CMOTDibbler

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I don't have a clue what Vary's end game is. He says he wants peace in the realm but that is at odds with putting a Targ on the throne. The last King was mad and madness is well known to run in the Targ family. Hardly the most stable people to be in charge! Plus Vary's isn't even from the seven Kingdoms. He's a foreigner and has never really been accepted as was seen at Joffrey's wedding when he told Tyrion he wasn't able to sit in the best seats as he's still considered a foreigner. He makes for a far more interesting character than LF who is simply driven by ego and a need to Lord it over all the elite who looked down on him in his youth.

Another quote from Varys is about how the poor people suffer when the nobles play their game of thrones. Yet he's in the thick of the game and manipulating everyone he can. I don't see Aerys as being the blueprint for all Targaryens anyway. His madness came as a result of his betrayal and imprisonment and just grew from extreme paranoia. Varys supporting (f)Aegon and Danaerys would suggest that he believes Targaryens are best suited to rule Westeros.

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I would love to see Sweet Robin throw him out of the moon door. Sansa knows that LF killed his mother and she could use it against LF. We might see LF trying to get rid of Sansa. She knows too much about him now and that makes her dangerous to him, especially after she rejected him. Catelyn rejected him and in return LF betrayed both her and Ned. I don't see LF letting affection get in the way of ambition.

For all the talk of Jon not trusting Sansa, she's still holding information back from him about Littlefinger. The above being a case in point.

bnt

I agree with pinkypinky, back on page 1, that Howland Reed has to make an appearance at some point. He's the last living person who knows what happened at the Tower of Joy, and is Meera's father. As I understand the situation from the books, he's most recently been fighting to regain Moat Cailin from the Bolton/Frey alliance - and recent events on the show have basically ended that alliance (no more Boltons and Frey Sr. is no more). So, if Bran and Meera can make it back to Winterfell, it's then south to Moat Cailin and then perhaps Greywater Watch, which we haven't seen on the show yet. Assuming they can find it - it's Howland's Moving Castle. :cool:

Interestingly, actor Brian Cox was recently quoted as saying he regrets passing up a role in the show early on, and would be more open to a part now. Some speculation that he'd be good as Archmaester Marwyn at the Citadel, but now I'm wondering about Howland too.

Tenger

Paddy Cow wrote: »

I'm a bit rusty on the finer details but what is the significance of him being a Blackfyre? I don't even remember who the Blackfyre's are

Blackfyre'e are essentially rogue Targs who lost a civil war a long time ago and were forced to chose exile to Essos.
They maintained their Westerosi traditions and fought as the Golden Company mercenary band.

The Blackfyres have maintained the martial traditions of the original House Targarygen and not succumbed to decadence and weakness as happened to the direct line of kings.

Varys wants a strong throne to rule the 7 kingdoms, thus the people shall not suffer at the whims of nobles.


Might be time for a re-read of the books...get me up to speed in time for the release of next book. At the rate I read these days it might take me 6 months to read them all......

GerB40

bnt wrote: »

I agree with pinkypinky, back on page 1, that Howland Reed has to make an appearance at some point. He's the last living person who knows what happened at the Tower of Joy, and is Meera's father. As I understand the situation from the books, he's most recently been fighting to regain Moat Cailin from the Bolton/Frey alliance - and recent events on the show have basically ended that alliance (no more Boltons and Frey Sr. is no more). So, if Bran and Meera can make it back to Winterfell, it's then south to Moat Cailin and then perhaps Greywater Watch, which we haven't seen on the show yet. Assuming they can find it - it's Howland's Moving Castle. :cool:

Interestingly, actor Brian Cox was recently quoted as saying he regrets passing up a role in the show early on, and would be more open to a part now. Some speculation that he'd be good as Archmaester Marwyn at the Citadel, but now I'm wondering about Howland too.

After watching video from Rawrist, ctrl x (or whatever his name is), and Preston Jacobs I'm seriously excited to see Archmaester Marwen. In the books he was fairly interesting but now I'm fully hyped. He could be one of the most interesting characters in the later books. Glass candles, his "who do you think brought down the dragons" line and that was only from one interaction with Sam. Marwen is goin to have a major role in the story to come, mark my words..

ItsChecoTime

Frank O. Pinion wrote: »

Aegon's absence is really noticeable now:
http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/142069-aegons-absence-is-really-noticeable-now/&page=1

Anyone agree with the above opinion? I do. End of the TV series seems very predictable, with Daenerys overpowered, and Jon Snow's bloodline being revealed. Without Aegon VI, there's not as many twists and turns.

I think they could use Gendry in (f)Aegon's role as he is a similar character and could come in with a twist of him having a claim for the throne (he could potentially be Robert + Cersei's son)

Paddy Cow

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

I think they could use Gendry in (f)Aegon's role as he is a similar character and could come in with a twist of him having a claim for the throne (he could potentially be Robert + Cersei's son)

No offence but that is the most bizarre theory I've read and it's not going to happen :P

duploelabs

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

(he could potentially be Robert + Cersei's son)

The only child born to them two was still born as far as I remember

ItsChecoTime

duploelabs wrote: »

The only child born to them two was still born as far as I remember

Well in the show she speaks of the child being taken away from her after giving birth and she never saw it again. Kind of like how Aegon was taken away in the books.

I know it's a longshot and no offence taken about it's farfetched nature but I think it would be a good twist if we could see what really happened through Bran and for Gendry to make a Aegon-like campaign for the Iron throne.

Witcher

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Well in the show she speaks of the child being taken away from her after giving birth and she never saw it again. Kind of like how Aegon was taken away in the books.

No she doesn't, he died;

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Cersei's_black-haired_son

PopePalpatine

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Well in the show she speaks of the child being taken away from her after giving birth and she never saw it again. Kind of like how Aegon was taken away in the books.

I know it's a longshot and no offence taken about it's farfetched nature but I think it would be a good twist if we could see what really happened through Bran and for Gendry to make a Aegon-like campaign for the Iron throne.

The only way that can happen is if Gendry rowed all the way to Braavos and worked his way up through the Iron Bank, slowly biding his time for revenge. :pac:

ItsChecoTime

Strider wrote: »

No she doesn't, he died;

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Cersei's_black-haired_son

Allegedly died, if you scroll down on that link there's a quote where she says they took him away and she never saw him again, no funeral or anything for it. I'm on to something here I'm telling you's!

Paddy Cow

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Well in the show she speaks of the child being taken away from her after giving birth and she never saw it again. Kind of like how Aegon was taken away in the books.

I know it's a longshot and no offence taken about it's farfetched nature but I think it would be a good twist if we could see what really happened through Bran and for Gendry to make a Aegon-like campaign for the Iron throne.

In the show she talked about a black haired baby that died of a fever and I get the impression she poisoned it because it was a Baratheon and not an incest Lannister baby.

CMOTDibbler

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Allegedly died, if you scroll down on that link there's a quote where she says they took him away and she never saw him again, no funeral or anything for it. I'm on to something here I'm telling you's!

Took his body away:

"Such a little thing. A bird without feathers. They came to take his body away and Robert held me. I screamed and I battled, but he held me. That little bundle. They took him away and I never saw him again."

Mwnger3

Predictions for Season 7:


Sansa will outmaneuver Littlefinger somehow, probably by marrying Robin Arryn. With Jon backing Sansa up, LF will beat a hasty retreat and possibly end up allying with Cercei (again).

Varys will show more of his hand, and we'll see how much he's playing both Dany and Tyrion. To the extent that he's essentially arranged this invasion of Westeros. I also think it's possible that he's wearing a glamour, and that he's a lot older than we realise, Melissandra-style. What's his real identity?

Dany will definitely not cruise her way to the Iron Throne. Cercei will be a match for her, particularly with Qyburn, and later Littlefinger, backing her up. I think one of the dragons will die during an attack on King's Landing. Thanks to Qyburn probably.

Bran will struggle to get in contact with his siblings, particularly Jon, given what he knows about his heritage. Jon's lineage will become of utmost importance and Howland Reed will be a sought after man.

Arya will go on a one (faceless) man mission of revenge against the Lannisters. I think she has to be second fav after the Hound for the character who'll eventually take down the Mountain. But whether she succeeds in taking down Cercei and Jamie is another question.

The Wall will come down.


Predictions for Season 8 and series in general:


Jon and his allies will flee from the host of the dead, probably to the Vale if Sansa's there. If Bran is to regain contact with them, it could be telepathically through Robin Arryn.

Naturally Jon and Dany will have to unite against the WW. And possibly against Cercei too. Brokered by Tyrion. But it won't last. Dany will find out his real background. Littlefinger probably the one to spill the beans - given his love of chaos and stuff.

Dany will be corrupted by power, using her remaining dragons to destroy anyone who disagrees with her (the Greyjoys?), innocent or not. Tyrion will turn against her due to these excesses. This final betrayal by her Hand will push her off the deep end. Hence Tyrion will become the new Tywin and Dany the new Aerys.

If Jamie or Tyrion don't take down Cercei, it'll be Arya. Then she'll go after Dany. I'm guessing she may kill one of her allies (Ellaria Sand?) and take her face to get near Dany to assassinate her.

Or else Jorah will kill Dany.

But definitely not Jon.

Jon's destiny is as a peacemaker, not a warmonger. Just like with the Wildlings and the Night's Watch, he'll unite former enemies for the greater good. Starks and Lannisters this time?

Bran will warg into a dragon.

The White Walkers will reach King's Landing and reanimate the dead dragon there.

Sansa is still my favourite to be on the Iron Throne by the series end.

Hyzepher wrote: »

it struck me that the whole Game of Thrones centres not around the Lannisters, Starks or Targaryens but around Varys and Little Finger. it is their game and i suspect the series will end with the ultimate winner being one of those two OR intervention from Sam who will save the realm from both of them.

That's why it was important for Varys to be seen on Danys ship at the end. It is he who is returning with an army. Varys on one side and Little Finger on the other. Everyone else is but a mere pawn in their little game.

Sam is the only one with the potential to see it and stop it. The White Walkers are a red herring.

Totally agree with the above. Sam will end up being Queen Sansa's Hand, using science/empiricism to get the better of Varys and Littlefinger (who are essentially spooks - using deceit and lies to manipulate events).

This would tie in with the idea of Sansa being an Elizabeth I-style figure, moving the Seven Kingdoms out of medievalism and into an Early Modern era. In this world, men (and women) of learning and education, like Tyrion and Sam, will dominate.

And that's it (I think).

Ben Gadot

The SDCC panel gave two interesting tidbits, the first being Turner reinforcing the possibility of Sansa turning against Jon.

The other being Conleth Hill avoiding a question asked to the whole panel. Question was who will sit on the IT in the end. He was the only one not to answer because he apparently knows who will. He could be taking the piss of course.

Paddy Cow

Ben Gadot wrote: »

The SDCC panel gave two interesting tidbits, the first being Turner reinforcing the possibility of Sansa turning against Jon.

The other being Conleth Hill avoiding a question asked to the whole panel. Question was who will sit on the IT in the end. He was the only one not to answer because he apparently knows who will. He could be taking the piss of course.

Maybe there won't be an Iron Throne at the end. The North want their own King, Yara made a deal to be Queen of the Iron Islands, Dorne still have a monarchy. Perhaps the 7 Kindgoms will each have a ruler. I really hope Dany doesn't get it and would be ok with her getting killed.

CMOTDibbler

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Maybe there won't be an Iron Throne at the end. The North want their own King, Yara made a deal to be Queen of the Iron Islands, Dorne still have a monarchy. Perhaps the 7 Kindgoms will each have a ruler. I really hope Dany doesn't get it and would be ok with her getting killed.

It doesn't necessarily mean her death. She could establish the Seven Kingdoms as an alliance rather than an 'empire' with her taking one of the vacant thrones. Casterly Rock looks like a winner

Ben Gadot

I know people are going to have expectations with this bump so apologies in advance.

It's now July before we'll see the season seemingly, but I would have thought we'd have gotten at least a teaser by now.