Off Topic Thread 3.0

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Just looking at hoe successful GB continues to be in cycling and rowing and I'm wondering why Ireland doesn't do the same?

My understanding of their track and rowing programmes is they pumped a lot of money into them, targeted athletes from other sports and brought them over and had a very singular focus on winning medals.

Now, I'm not suggesting we could do it to the same extent, but as far as talent spotting goes I was thinking about the recent U20s rugby tournament. From a few things I've read since it seems like a couple of those players might get a provincial contract but most of them will end up playing club rugby or maybe even drifting away from the sport when college ends and careers take over.

I can't imagine Academy players are on that much money and they get their time in the Academy but after that there's no guarantee they'll get professional contracts. So even at that point there's a pool of talented and committed athletes that could be plucked and put into other sports.

So, say we focus on the 2 man rowing, and target having 2 crews make the Olympics. That's 4 athletes. Set up some kind of academy system where they get financial support and help with college or whatever they're doing. They're already fit, they've already committed a large part of their lives to sport so you don't have to worry about them not having what it takes in that way.

I'm just kind of spit balling here but it seems surprising that this isn't something that we do. There are considerable pools of talented and fit athletes out there who maybe don't quite have what it takes to turn pro in their chosen sport but would possibly be perfect for lifting them into other sports.

wp_rathead

Taylor out.. well bollocks...
fair fncks to the Fin woman though

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Irish boxing is having a terrible Olympics. USA boxing is having a great time. Purely coincidental, I'm sure.

wp_rathead

Well Billy Walsh didn't work with Katie, was more to do with whatever happened between her and her dad not being the coach anymore..

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

wp_rathead wrote: »

Well Billy Walsh didn't work with Katie, was more to do with whatever happened between her and her dad not being the coach anymore..

I heard Andy Lee on Second Captains last week saying the same thing. He also said that Zaur Antia was more involved with most of the boxers and more important to them than Walsh was.

It's hard to think Walsh's departure has nothing to do with it though. Even if it's not his physical presence that matters. Lee also suggested, in a round about way, that it's possible the talent pool in Ireland is not what it was and Walsh could see what was coming so got out while the offer was there.

Just seeing a headline there while googling Zaur Antia that suggests he's looking at a move to Canada.

irishbucsfan

She was robbed but it's been such a difficult year for her that I'd question whether or not a medal was likely anyway. Devastated for her.

Podge_irl

irishbucsfan wrote: »

She was robbed but it's been such a difficult year for her that I'd question whether or not a medal was likely anyway. Devastated for her.

Guaranteed bronze if she won that fight right?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Podge_irl wrote: »

Guaranteed bronze if she won that fight right?

Pretty sure that's right.

irishbucsfan

Podge_irl wrote: »

Guaranteed bronze if she won that fight right?

Yes you're right, I should have said won the gold.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just looking at hoe successful GB continues to be in cycling and rowing and I'm wondering why Ireland doesn't do the same?

My understanding of their track and rowing programmes is they pumped a lot of money into them, targeted athletes from other sports and brought them over and had a very singular focus on winning medals.

Now, I'm not suggesting we could do it to the same extent, but as far as talent spotting goes I was thinking about the recent U20s rugby tournament. From a few things I've read since it seems like a couple of those players might get a provincial contract but most of them will end up playing club rugby or maybe even drifting away from the sport when college ends and careers take over.

I can't imagine Academy players are on that much money and they get their time in the Academy but after that there's no guarantee they'll get professional contracts. So even at that point there's a pool of talented and committed athletes that could be plucked and put into other sports.

So, say we focus on the 2 man rowing, and target having 2 crews make the Olympics. That's 4 athletes. Set up some kind of academy system where they get financial support and help with college or whatever they're doing. They're already fit, they've already committed a large part of their lives to sport so you don't have to worry about them not having what it takes in that way.

I'm just kind of spit balling here but it seems surprising that this isn't something that we do. There are considerable pools of talented and fit athletes out there who maybe don't quite have what it takes to turn pro in their chosen sport but would possibly be perfect for lifting them into other sports.

The British lotto has a lot to do with it. There is huge funding for sports from that. It started in the mid 90s and GB started being really successful in Beijing i 2008 so the timeline adds up. Obviously it's only part of the issue but increased funding in Irish sport, from whatever source, would help a lot.

Is it really a surprise that Irish rugby got it's s**** together when the game went professional? Yeah we had a "golden generation" but the money has helped the provinces beyond anyone's imagination from back in 1995.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

bilston wrote: »

The British lotto has a lot to do with it. There is huge funding for sports from that. It started in the mid 90s and GB started being really successful in Beijing i 2008 so the timeline adds up. Obviously it's only part of the issue but increased funding in Irish sport, from whatever source, would help a lot.

Is it really a surprise that Irish rugby got it's s**** together when the game went professional? Yeah we had a "golden generation" but the money has helped the provinces beyond anyone's imagination from back in 1995.

Oh I know funding is an issue and the already successful sports get a lot of the funding that is available. It just seems like there's certain sports that nearly anyone who is physically fit could do well in, given the backing, and it's a wonder we're not seeing more investment in these sports.

There's also the question of what the people at the top are doing with the money they do get. I don't follow soccer that much but from bits and pieces I see on twitter the FAI seem to be a complete shambles and this ongoing issue with the Irish Olympics team and Olympic tickets makes you wonder about them too.

bilston

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

The British lotto has a lot to do with it. There is huge funding for sports from that. It started in the mid 90s and GB started being really successful in Beijing i 2008 so the timeline adds up. Obviously it's only part of the issue but increased funding in Irish sport, from whatever source, would help a lot.

Is it really a surprise that Irish rugby got it's s**** together when the game went professional? Yeah we had a "golden generation" but the money has helped the provinces beyond anyone's imagination from back in 1995.

Oh I know funding is an issue and the already successful sports get a lot of the funding that is available. It just seems like there's certain sports that nearly anyone who is physically fit could do well in, given the backing, and it's a wonder we're not seeing more investment in these sports.

There's also the question of what the people at the top are doing with the money they do get. I don't follow soccer that much but from bits and pieces I see on twitter the FAI seem to be a complete shambles and this ongoing issue with the Irish Olympics team and Olympic tickets makes you wonder about them too.

The administration of sport in general in Ireland (I include the IFA in Northern Ireland as well) is questionable. As much as we criticise them for one reason or another the IRFU are excellently run in comparison.

stephen_n

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Irish boxing is having a terrible Olympics. USA boxing is having a great time. Purely coincidental, I'm sure.

Think the fact her Dad isn't in her corner would have a lot more to do with it. Not a guy I'd have a lot of time for but he was very instrumental in her success.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

stephen_n wrote: »

Think the fact her Dad isn't in her corner would have a lot more to do with it. Not a guy I'd have a lot of time for but he was very instrumental in her success.

That accounts for Taylor but not the rest of them. Like I said though it's possible that Walsh's exit has had a knock on effect even if it's not his physical presence that they're missing. Or it's possible that there's been a bit of a decline happening for a whlie and this would have happened whether Walsh was there or not.

Also important to note that the set up in the US was apparently terrible and anyone with a bit of experience probably could have gone in there and improved the situation.

dregin

mfceiling wrote: »

I'm in Stephens green. I'm starving. I need burgers/chips/chicken wings type food.

Where am I heading?

*oh and beer....preferably craft (waves at molloy)*

Alfie Byrnes is probably the closest craft beer bar to Stephen's Green. Surprised no one mentioned it.

thomond2006

Yo Podge, when's our Draft?

Podge_irl

thomond2006 wrote: »

Yo Podge, when's our Draft?

Ah yes, tis the season. Will get on to people about it.

Whereabouts is the sailing compared to Rio? Supposedly the radial race can't go ahead because of lack of wind but the divers are being blown out of it by the looks of things.

Podge_irl

And now it's too windy to race and it's postponed

irishbucsfan

Its all a conspiracy to stop Ireland winning all the medals

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

Podge_irl wrote: »

Whereabouts is the sailing compared to Rio? Supposedly the radial race can't go ahead because of lack of wind but the divers are being blown out of it by the looks of things.

Clare Balding was talking to their person at the sailing a while ago and she (sailing lady) was saying it was unbelievably calm while Clare was saying that they're being blown away in the Olympic park.

wp_rathead

the olympics has my body clock bangjaxed
tried to go to bed early tonight and im wide awake in bed....

pickarooney

That heavyweight final.. FFS the winner looked embarrassed to get a gold medal after being pummeled to bits for three rounds.

Boxing is such a farce.

That poor French guy false starting in the 110m hurdles. Way harsh to end his Olympics before it started.

sydthebeat

I watched that fight.
I am no expert at boxing but I can see when one lad is getting his head beaten off him by another.

That was a disgraceful decision bordering on corrupt. I have no respect left for that discipline in the Olympics as their scoring method is left way to open to being corrupted.

The Lost Sheep

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Just looking at hoe successful GB continues to be in cycling and rowing and I'm wondering why Ireland doesn't do the same?

My understanding of their track and rowing programmes is they pumped a lot of money into them, targeted athletes from other sports and brought them over and had a very singular focus on winning medals.

Now, I'm not suggesting we could do it to the same extent, but as far as talent spotting goes I was thinking about the recent U20s rugby tournament. From a few things I've read since it seems like a couple of those players might get a provincial contract but most of them will end up playing club rugby or maybe even drifting away from the sport when college ends and careers take over.

I can't imagine Academy players are on that much money and they get their time in the Academy but after that there's no guarantee they'll get professional contracts. So even at that point there's a pool of talented and committed athletes that could be plucked and put into other sports.

So, say we focus on the 2 man rowing, and target having 2 crews make the Olympics. That's 4 athletes. Set up some kind of academy system where they get financial support and help with college or whatever they're doing. They're already fit, they've already committed a large part of their lives to sport so you don't have to worry about them not having what it takes in that way.

I'm just kind of spit balling here but it seems surprising that this isn't something that we do. There are considerable pools of talented and fit athletes out there who maybe don't quite have what it takes to turn pro in their chosen sport but would possibly be perfect for lifting them into other sports.

Funding, they have greater population and can get more into these sports. We have GAA and all too often don't have any clubs in a lot of the country other than the GAA and soccer so athletes suited to all kinds of sports are playing hurling, football, soccer or rugby...
Talking about academy guys is not the way you look at it. You would need a greater amount of work done by OCI/Irish Sports Council. Better facilities to help develop potential Olympians to increase chances of people making it in different sports.
Funding is a major issue and when the big 4 team sports attract so much its hard for others to get anything.

stephen_n

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

That accounts for Taylor but not the rest of them. Like I said though it's possible that Walsh's exit has had a knock on effect even if it's not his physical presence that they're missing. Or it's possible that there's been a bit of a decline happening for a whlie and this would have happened whether Walsh was there or not.

Also important to note that the set up in the US was apparently terrible and anyone with a bit of experience probably could have gone in there and improved the situation.

Maybe age profiles may have something to do with it too. Paddy Barnes and Katie Taylor were the big hopes for medals. Though not past it both are touching 30.

sydthebeat

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe age profiles may have something to do with it too. Paddy Barnes and Katie Taylor were the big hopes for medals. Though not past it both are touching 30.

taylors opponent was 35 and only started boxing at 26

with barnes is was a weigh issue, which he fully admitted himself.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Funding, they have greater population and can get more into these sports. We have GAA and all too often don't have any clubs in a lot of the country other than the GAA and soccer so athletes suited to all kinds of sports are playing hurling, football, soccer or rugby...
Talking about academy guys is not the way you look at it. You would need a greater amount of work done by OCI/Irish Sports Council. Better facilities to help develop potential Olympians to increase chances of people making it in different sports.
Funding is a major issue and when the big 4 team sports attract so much its hard for others to get anything.

Facilities shouldn't be an excuse anymore. The National Sports Campus is massive and there's more to come with it.
I've already said funding and where it goes is an issue. I'm asking why someone hasn't tried to copy the UK system of talent spotting. There's no way we could ever do it to the same extent, but like I said, even aiming to have 2 pairs in the rowing shouldn't be beyond our capabilities.

What I'm saying about the Academy's and U20's with the Rugby is you have a pool of young, fit and dedicated athletes who are probably going to drift away from sport because they're not quite good enough to go pro.

It's just an example. I'm sure you could find GAA players who are in their mid 20's and haven't made the county team. Again they're fit and dedicated athletes who may well be suited to something like rowing.

It seems like we just wait until people who have found these sports themselves start to show a bit of form and then we back them.

But as we've already said the entire set up for sport in Ireland is dodgy. This latest nonsense with the OCI and tickets is proof of that. Like nearly everything in Ireland it's all jobs for the boys and you scratch my back.

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

stephen_n wrote: »

Maybe age profiles may have something to do with it too. Paddy Barnes and Katie Taylor were the big hopes for medals. Though not past it both are touching 30.

I think that's what Lee was getting at last week when talking about Walsh. There may not be a lot of young talented boxers coming through at the moment and maybe Walsh could see that and felt it was time to get out.

Second Captains put out a special podcast yesterday following Taylor's loss and had Lee on again. I haven't listened to it yet but apparently he hinted at some of the stuff that has gone on between Taylor and her dad and also something about Anita over training her but her being too afraid to speak up?

A lot of the stories coming out from the boxing camp sound weird to me. That guy who failed the drugs test sounds like someone who shouldn't have been there in the first place and apparently they didn't see him for weeks before the Olympics. He just met them at the airport on the day they were flying out. Maybe the boxers don't go into a camp imidiately before a big event but you'd think they'd at least have to check in every now and then.

The Lost Sheep

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Facilities shouldn't be an excuse anymore. The National Sports Campus is massive and there's more to come with it.
I've already said funding and where it goes is an issue. I'm asking why someone hasn't tried to copy the UK system of talent spotting. There's no way we could ever do it to the same extent, but like I said, even aiming to have 2 pairs in the rowing shouldn't be beyond our capabilities.

What I'm saying about the Academy's and U20's with the Rugby is you have a pool of young, fit and dedicated athletes who are probably going to drift away from sport because they're not quite good enough to go pro.

It's just an example. I'm sure you could find GAA players who are in their mid 20's and haven't made the county team. Again they're fit and dedicated athletes who may well be suited to something like rowing.

It seems like we just wait until people who have found these sports themselves start to show a bit of form and then we back them.

But as we've already said the entire set up for sport in Ireland is dodgy. This latest nonsense with the OCI and tickets is proof of that. Like nearly everything in Ireland it's all jobs for the boys and you scratch my back.

But unfortunately they are still valid enough reason why we haven't developed.
There is more in terms of guys who make it at provincial level at underage but cant go to pros who you could look at for other sports and same with county teams in gaa at minor/21
On rowing. How many clubs is there in the country?

TICKLE_ME_ELMO

^ According to the Rowing Ireland website there are 69 affiliated clubs on the island of Ireland.