Farming post Brexit

Nekarsulm

_Brian wrote: »

I think many of us who crossed the border regularly during the troubles will have a skewed view on what a border crossing looks like. .

Yeah, you'dsee a tiny red light somewhere on the road in front of you , and not know if it was a joint army/ruc checkpoint or the back reflector of a push bike.
Stop and a police man takes his time checking your licence and insurance, and as your eyes adjusted to the darkness, you would start to discern soldiers in the hedge with rifles at half port.

There were funny episodes too. A neighbour went down to McCaffreys quarry at Derrylin with a trailer on a Ford 7000 for a load of plastering sand .
No bother going north, but coming back, army stopped him. As he told it, "They stopped me with the front wheels up against the ramp, and the owl clutch wasn't great at the time. Then she wasn't able to pull away with the load on. It took half the British army pushing to get her moving again"!

MF290

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Simply clever.:D

Cute Cavan *ahem

pedigree 6

Well the world didn't fall down. The sun came up.
The sterling didn't fall off a cliff.
I think Europe is more concerned about this than the uk is.
Eastern Europe is already wondering will the same money be available to them in the future.
Military wise Europe has lost a giant.
A lot of European intelectual operations are based in the UK. Weather, science, etc.
Will they now move to france with it's history of downtime with strikes or move to Ireland or stay in the uk? Maybe we're too far away from Europe's centre and housing is a problem here and Dublin is not London. Whatever way the government here needs to get busy.
Otherwise will London become the new Switzerland for banking separate from EU?

Farming wise if their currency fell prices for british farmers would increase and possibly in the shops as well. Currency doesn't look like falling though, higher now than 2 years ago. Lucky they kept their own currency.

Reggie.

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Well the world didn't fall down. The sun came up.
The sterling didn't fall off a cliff.
I think Europe is more concerned about this than the uk is.
Eastern Europe is already wondering will the same money be available to them in the future.
Military wise Europe has lost a giant.
A lot of European intelectual operations are based in the UK. Weather, science, etc.
Will they now move to france with it's history of downtime with strikes or move to Ireland or stay in the uk? Maybe we're too far away from Europe's centre and housing is a problem here and Dublin is not London. Whatever way the government here needs to get busy.
Otherwise will London become the new Switzerland for banking separate from EU?

Farming wise if their currency fell prices for british farmers would increase and possibly in the shops as well. Currency doesn't look like falling though, higher now than 2 years ago. Lucky they kept their own currency.

As for militarily I don't think the UK had a major input upto recently. It was too busy with afghan and Iraq tbh. The recent EUFOR in CHAD didn't have a huge amount of British troops involved but I'm sure they were there in the support role tho.

But Europe has the UK as a defence partner as in NATO so the west flank is still covered by them on the sea and in the air.

_Brian

See Scottish first minister is saying that Scottish Parliament could Veto the decision to leave the EU, presume NI parliament would have similar powers ??

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

See Scottish first minister is saying that Scottish Parliament could Veto the decision to leave the EU, presume NI parliament would have similar powers ??

Gonna take time for this to sort itself out

Nekarsulm

Is the Eurofighter project now stalled?
40,000 UK jobs involved, as they are 25% stakeholders.


https://www.eurofighter.com/about-us

A guy I went to school with, is an engineer on the ejector seat mechanisms.

Waffletraktor

Reggie. wrote: »

Gonna take time for this to sort itself out

The Snp are a bunch of far left wing nutters with a hatred of anyone with money and England. Their fisher price calculator doesn't even get close to being balanced with oil in the gutters and Aberdeenshire has had a huge shock to its previous economy with many off shore workers and suppliers being dropped

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

Gonna take time for this to sort itself out

Yea.
Been watching some interesting debates on BBC news, it's quite the social experiment, perhaps a new template for eu membership will prevail, perhaps this is the kick in the ass that Brussels needed to sit up and listen.

But as a small fringe country with no real domestic economy of significant scale I'd worry we may net benifet as much as the larger core countries on the continent.

I think this whole thing was lost on immigration and border controls, the last straw if you like.

paddysdream

_Brian wrote: »

See Scottish first minister is saying that Scottish Parliament could Veto the decision to leave the EU, presume NI parliament would have similar powers ??

Thats dreamland stuff.The powers either regional assembly have is pretty limited.They might hold a vote on EU membership but at the end of the day both Scotland and NI are part of the UK.
Could anyone really see the voters of NI voting to leave the UK and to remain in the EU and have their state run by a mixture of loony Shinners and equally looney DUP ?

_Brian

paddysdream wrote: »

Thats dreamland stuff.The powers either regional assembly have is pretty limited.They might hold a vote on EU membership but at the end of the day both Scotland and NI are part of the UK.
Could anyone really see the voters of NI voting to leave the UK and to remain in the EU and have their state run by a mixture of loony Shinners and equally looney DUP ?

I'd have thought as much but she said they could veto the whole Brexit position.

Reggie.

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Is the Eurofighter project now stalled?
40,000 UK jobs involved, as they are 25% stakeholders.


https://www.eurofighter.com/about-us

A guy I went to school with, is an engineer on the ejector seat mechanisms.

Last I heard the major budgetary over runs slowed the development plus as a result the cost per unit has increased as a result. The total number of orders for fighters have dropped per country aswell.

The JSF might have done harm to the euro fighter as it's more multi role as is required in today's conflict zones. The euro fighter is late in the game for a fourth generation fighter as you have the gripen and the F22 raptor already in service throughout the world.

Reggie.

paddysdream wrote: »

Thats dreamland stuff.The powers either regional assembly have is pretty limited.They might hold a vote on EU membership but at the end of the day both Scotland and NI are part of the UK.
Could anyone really see the voters of NI voting to leave the UK and to remain in the EU and have their state run by a mixture of loony Shinners and equally looney DUP ?

Its really showing up what each party is made up of and what bluffing was done.

You could see the "what now" in the face of Boris on Friday at the press conferences.

_Brian

Reggie. wrote: »

Its really showing up what each party is made up of and what bluffing was done.

You could see the "what now" in the face of Boris on Friday at the press conferences.

Absolutely, I think he saw this as an exercise to boost his media position and then they went and won which he didn't seem to expect.

Reggie.

_Brian wrote: »

Absolutely, I think he saw this as an exercise to boost his media position and then they went and won which he didn't seem to expect.

Ah real "oh bollocks" moment

kowtow

Reggie. wrote: »

Its really showing up what each party is made up of and what bluffing was done.

You could see the "what now" in the face of Boris on Friday at the press conferences.

I don't think that's the case at all.

I suspect he has the weight of a momentous decision on his shoulders and all that goes with it. I know for a certainty that it was a knife edge choice for him, not to mention politically an extremely risky one. In the end he chose to go with his convictions and risk his political career.

Anybody who thinks he chose to stand up for Brexit lightly either doesn't know him or is in the business of writing easy copy.

You have to remember that this all looks very different if your judgement is that the EU project and particularly the Euro will ultimately fail without complete political integration, and if you don't accept (or believe that the countries of europe will accept) all that brings with it. I know that isn't the view of Irish commentators - but it is certainly the considered view of many, perhaps most, in the Anglosphere, in financial markets, and in politics.

If that is your view - then whether and when Britain should exit the fringes of the EU becomes a matter of judicious timing. It has deep and lasting consequences for both the UK and the EU but if the EU cannot be truly reformed from within then it is inevitable.

Those in the UK who voted to remain - by definition - either believe that the Euro and the EU political project is going to be a great success for millenia to come or that it isn't, but they'd rather not take the pain of the exit in the near term - that's why big business and economists lined up behind remain, and it is perfectly understandable.

Boris has chosen to be the mountain guide that fires a rocket and creates a small avalanche, in the hopes of avoiding a disastrous avalanche later. He may be right or he may be wrong, but he's not the chancer many would wish to paint him as for their own reasons.

_Brian

Great point made in a debate on BBC earlier from a Brexit supporter, they may end up surrendering border migration in return for trading rights.
No reason to believe they will have their own way in the whole negotiations.

pedigree 6

Have to remember any media coverage here is totally biased.

Posters here are right who knows what way this will play out.
But just to give a bit of balance - here.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-06-09/jcb-chairman-sends-letter-to-staff-backing-brexit/

pedigree 6

Ok last one. But just so maybe people can understand why the vote went the way it did.
Plus it might give people an idea what happens in brussels.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/06/05/this-is-why-businesses-back-brexit/

paddysdream

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Have to remember any media coverage here is totally biased.

Posters here are right who knows what way this will play out.
But just to give a bit of balance - here.
http://www.itv.com/news/central/2016-06-09/jcb-chairman-sends-letter-to-staff-backing-brexit/

Have to concur with you there.Whether you are pro or anti Brexit everyone must agree that coverage in Ireland has been so one sided as to be almost laughable.Not even a pretence of impartiality on tv or the radio.

Reading the Sunday Times front page today see our European affairs minister is already making noises re. opposition to further integration and pointedly remarking about the original 6 members of the EEC meeting without any of the others.Hardly a ringing endorsement from them of one in all in now is it?

Inda must have suddenly realised that the some pigs are more equal than others.At least he is being practical because if he was true to his,I'm assuming deeply held,principles of European love then should he not be first in the queue kicking John Bull?

20silkcut

David McWilliams made a good point this morning on the radio that a visit to working class areas of Britain last week made it clear to him that brexit was inevitable . Everyone in the media and politics reads the same newspapers and watches the same TV. He knew he would not find the truth there. So off he went to South Shields and parts of Birmingham.
Working class Brits don't care if things get worse cause they can't get any worse they don't care about Scotland or the city of London or norn iron. It's the same reason why trump is popular in the states it's the same reason why our own government took a walloping in the last election here . When things are sh1tpeople don't care if it gets more sh1t
Maybe more sh1t might move things in a positive direction but any direction will do really than the place their in right now .
Think private pile just before he shot sergeant Hartmann in full metal jacket. He was already in a world of sh1t.

Grueller

20silkcut wrote: »

David McWilliams made a good point this morning on the radio that a visit to working class areas of Britain last week made it clear to him that brexit was inevitable . Everyone in the media and politics reads the same newspapers and watches the same TV. He knew he would not find the truth there. So off he went to South Shields and parts of Birmingham.
Working class Brits don't care if things get worse cause they can't get any worse they don't care about Scotland or the city of London or norn iron. It's the same reason why trump is popular in the states it's the same reason why our own government took a walloping in the last election here . When things are sh1tpeople don't care if it gets more sh1t
Maybe more sh1t might move things in a positive direction but any direction will do really than the place their in right now .
Think private pile just before he shot sergeant Hartmann in full metal jacket. He was already in a world of sh1t.

I heard that piece and I eating second breakfast. In fairness it was a typical McWilliams piece. I was right and I am going to congratulate myself.

The sentiment is correct though. The media slate our independent TDs from their dublin centric point of view while not seeing the reality outside of their comfort zone. The income gap in the UK is huge from south to north with the wealthy elite in the south doing nothing to alleviate it and just piling more and more resources into particularly the greater London area.

20silkcut

Grueller wrote: »

I heard that piece and I eating second breakfast. In fairness it was a typical McWilliams piece. I was right and I am going to congratulate myself.

The sentiment is correct though. The media slate our independent TDs from their dublin centric point of view while not seeing the reality outside of their comfort zone. The income gap in the UK is huge from south to north with the wealthy elite in the south doing nothing to alleviate it and just piling more and more resources into particularly the greater London area.

The remain campaign were selling these people the status quo with added foreigners. It didn't stand a chance . And a re -run would only confirm it .
In places like the valleys of wales and the north of England the current status quo is almost post apocalyptic.
As indeed is non farming non tourist rural Ireland .

Grueller

20silkcut wrote: »

The remain campaign were selling these people the status quo with added foreigners. It didn't stand a chance . And a re -run would only confirm it .
In places like the valleys of wales and the north of England the current status quo is almost post apocalyptic.

Have relations in both Wigan and Sunderland. Talk about grim. Youth unemployment is deplorable and did not look like getting any better with the status quo. They had no option but to vote for change.

Bass Reeves

Grueller wrote: »

I heard that piece and I eating second breakfast. In fairness it was a typical McWilliams piece. I was right and I am going to congratulate myself.

The sentiment is correct though. The media slate our independent TDs from their dublin centric point of view while not seeing the reality outside of their comfort zone. The income gap in the UK is huge from south to north with the wealthy elite in the south doing nothing to alleviate it and just piling more and more resources into particularly the greater London area.

TBF to McWilliams he often makes good points. In yesterdays Indo he made the point that the same intuitions that are telling us that the sky will fall in because of Brexit are the ones that told us we have a soft landing at the end of the property boom. He called the arrival of the Celtic Tiger boom right. He called the crash at the end of the property boom fairy right.

He did a program last year about the way wealth has become more accumulated in the hand of a small percentage of people world wide. In that he made the point that it was the free movement of capital that made it so hard to tax. If you look at out 12.5% corporation tax, way really wealthy people can move residence at will to avoid taxation and often the preferenial treatment that they are given my some countries to avoid tax in another.

Grueller

Bass Reeves wrote: »

TBF to McWilliams he often makes good points. In yesterdays Indo he made the point that the same intuitions that are telling us that the sky will fall in because of Brexit are the ones that told us we have a soft landing at the end of the property boom. He called the arrival of the Celtic Tiger boom right. He called the crash at the end of the property boom fairy right.

He did a program last year about the way wealth has become more accumulated in the hand of a small percentage of people world wide. In that he made the point that it was the free movement of capital that made it so hard to tax. If you look at out 12.5% corporation tax, way really wealthy people can move residence at will to avoid taxation and often the preferenial treatment that they are given my some countries to avoid tax in another.

Not saying that he is wrong, just that there is no need to be so smug and self congratulatory about it. He is a self promotional expert.

kowtow

Grueller wrote: »

Not saying that he is wrong, just that there is no need to be so smug and self congratulatory about it. He is a self promotional expert.

Not as bad as Vince Cable in the UK though.

He's predicted 12 of the last 3 recessions.

kowtow

Bass Reeves wrote: »

He did a program last year about the way wealth has become more accumulated in the hand of a small percentage of people world wide. In that he made the point that it was the free movement of capital that made it so hard to tax. If you look at out 12.5% corporation tax, way really wealthy people can move residence at will to avoid taxation and often the preferenial treatment that they are given my some countries to avoid tax in another.

It's always the problem with high taxation... money moves to countries which will spend (waste?) less of it on tax. Like all things there is an economy of scale ... in the UK someone with a reasonable house in the home counties will likely end up paying inheritance tax of 400k+ on a couple of million, someone with 50 million will end up paying accountants & lawyers 100K or so, and near nothing in tax (or certainly no more than the smaller guy).

At a certain level the more you tax the less you collect ... Gordon Brown introduced a super tax for a while at 50% over 150K in the UK which is widely thought to have actually cost the country money rather than increasing the take.

It's a good thing that we have tax havens like Ireland (for corporate tax) and Switzerland, Gib, Jersey etc. for personal tax because it makes countries competitive and keeps some sort of lid on the ambitions of Government.. but theres a hard place in between low and high taxation where the solutions which seem fairest often simply don't work. A wealth tax, for example, in Ireland would almost certainly drive up the price of farmland and result in more forestry (because farmers would seek an exemption and tax planning would drive the rich towards becoming tree farmers).

_Brian

20silkcut wrote: »

The remain campaign were selling these people the status quo with added foreigners. It didn't stand a chance . And a re -run would only confirm it .
In places like the valleys of wales and the north of England the current status quo is almost post apocalyptic.
As indeed is non farming non tourist rural Ireland .

Cant possibly see this being a good thing for Wales, sooo much EU money has been poured in to help develop them, same as ourselves. I think without the EU Wales would be a fairly grim place, as would much of Ireland..

kowtow

It's interesting that while Ireland's press seem to think the UK voters are just plain stupid, and are heading for disaster, the German press (from die welt, very poor translation) .. sees what our own commentators are too glib and blind to recognise:

The British do not leave the EU as narrow-minded snobs that had not meant it to happen that way, but as proud democrats that no longer wanted to put up with the snags and political failures of the EU. It was not them that divided the country into supporters and opponents, beneficiaries and losers, those preferring to live in the past and those looking ahead, nationalists and cosmopolitans. That was all the making of the EU itself. That same institution that accepted the Nobel Prize as a unique peace project has dramatically lost support by allowing chaos to reign over the euro and tolerating unregulated immigration far beyond Britain. Before the British said bye-bye, lots of other places were ablaze as well. The triumph of the neo-nationalists, Orban in Hungary and Kaczynski in Poland, as well as the advance of the leftwing populists of Syriza in Greece, the Five Stars in Italy, and Podemos in Spain have demonstrated how moribund Europe's disagreeing union has long since become. The Brexit is not a dress rehearsal that, when failing, can still be salvaged with a few repairs by the actors involved.

If we are unlucky, the historic drama is already in its final act. On closer examination, the Brexit is just the logical consequence of the EU constitution that failed in referendums in the Netherlands and France in 2005 already. After that, the intricate institutions rumbled on more or less without control and leadership while policymakers ignored to cut the most ambiguous projects of state sovereignty -- Schengen and the euro -- down to size.