South Africa V Ireland, Third Test Build-up Thread

Adbrowne

Just a guess at squad for the third test

McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Stander, Ruddock, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH


Bealham, Cronin, Furlong, Dillane, Jordi, Marmion, Madigan, Gilroy

kuang1

Adbrowne wrote: »

Just a guess at squad for the third test

McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Stander, Ruddock, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH


Bealham, Cronin, Furlong, Dillane, Jordi, Marmion, Madigan, Gilroy

That's a decent guess and I'd be happy enough with it.

But I suspect he might start Dillane and keep Henderson for a last 25 minute impact role.

I also think he might start Murphy and have Ruddock on the bench.
But I'm solely basing that on who were rested last Saturday.

.ak

Adbrowne wrote: »

Just a guess at squad for the third test

McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Stander, Ruddock, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH


Bealham, Cronin, Furlong, Dillane, Jordi, Marmion, Madigan, Gilroy

Swap TOH for Olding and that'd be my choice.

wp_rathead

.ak wrote: »

Swap TOH for Olding and that'd be my choice.

Love Olding but not at FB

willit

Adbrowne wrote: »

Just a guess at squad for the third test

McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Stander, Ruddock, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH


Bealham, Cronin, Furlong, Dillane, Jordi, Marmion, Madigan, Gilroy

I'd say that's pretty close to spot on. I will be very disappointed though if (when) Payne is moved inside to 13. He's been excellent at 15, as we all expected, and putting him at 13 sets us up to be more defensive than the last 2 weeks. Of course, he is the best option for 13 with Henshaw out, but personally I'd start Marshall and Olding.

Also, I think Furlong should start, he's been very impressive and is the future.

Clegg

Vermuelen and De Jager are out. Just need Wheatley to cry off and we have half a chance.

bilston

I think Dillane will start with probably Henderson going to the bench.

Not sure about the backs. I don't think Olding at 15 is an option though. Marshall will come back in and then it comes to Payne at 13 or 15 and whether you go with Olding or TOH.

mareegoo

willit wrote: »

I'd say that's pretty close to spot on. I will be very disappointed though if (when) Payne is moved inside to 13. He's been excellent at 15, as we all expected, and putting him at 13 sets us up to be more defensive than the last 2 weeks. Of course, he is the best option for 13 with Henshaw out, but personally I'd start Marshall and Olding.

Also, I think Furlong should start, he's been very impressive and is the future.

as much as i want furlong to start think this game will be won re body count

id go with:

mcgrath best ross (furlong to come on at half time ; bealham to take over if anything sudden & unforseen happens i.e. injury to bealham

toner dillane (bit of an element of surprise about dillane)

stander heaslip murphy (henderson on bench he must be wrecked)

murray jackson

earls marshall payne trimble

t o halloran (excellent counter attacker ; solid defensively (those posters who said otherwise have not been watching him and his improvements) also unknown to boks so element of surprise here also.

Adbrowne

willit wrote: »

I'd say that's pretty close to spot on. I will be very disappointed though if (when) Payne is moved inside to 13. He's been excellent at 15, as we all expected, and putting him at 13 sets us up to be more defensive than the last 2 weeks. Of course, he is the best option for 13 with Henshaw out, but personally I'd start Marshall and Olding.

Also, I think Furlong should start, he's been very impressive and is the future.

I think there is some defensive logic to Payne moving in when we have an option like TOH for the 15 jersey. Payne is 29 [?] and RK isnt much older so we have to give TOH a go in a game like this at some stage. He has been in camp the guts of a month so there is no reason why he shouldnt be upto speed.

I dont expect my thread opener post to be the team that plays though. Think there may be a curveball or two. I just hope Marmion is not left out altogether. Reddan is 3rd choice now for me.

former total

I think Matt Healy and Reddan are the only players not to have been involved yet?

But that shouldn't matter. We should put out the strongest team possible and really go for the win. Basically revert to the 23 for the first test, maybe give Ruddock another go at 7, and bring Olding into midfield alongside Marshall.

wp_rathead

former total wrote: »

I think Matt Healy and Reddan are the only players not to have been involved yet?

But that shouldn't matter. We should put out the strongest team possible and really go for the win. Basically revert to the 23 for the first test, maybe give Ruddock another go at 7, and bring Olding into midfield alongside Marshall.

Start Dillane, Stander and Murphy
Let Dillane and Stander go ape for 55/60 mins
Bring on Henderson for Dillane and Ruddock for Stander for final 20/25 mins


McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Dillane, Stander, Murphy, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH

Cronin, Bealham, Furlong, Henderson, Ruddock, Marmion, Madigan, Healy

Mr Tickle

wp_rathead wrote: »

Start Dillane, Stander and Murphy
Let Dillane and Stander go ape for 55/60 mins
Bring on Henderson for Dillane and Ruddock for Stander for final 20/25 mins


McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Dillane, Stander, Murphy, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH

Cronin, Bealham, Furlong, Henderson, Ruddock, Marmion, Madigan, Healy

Yeah this is more or less my thoughts too. Gilroy will probably beat Healy for the bench spot.
Maybe take the front row from last week.I thought furlong did brilliantly.

wp_rathead

Jesus I forgot about Gilroy ha, I was between Healy and Olding for 23- ya Gilry 23
I went with Ross starting as he not a great bench player- he either starts or he is not in the matchday squad
If Ross starts Furlong is 19
If Furlong starts, Bealham is 19 meaning Kilcoyne is 18
And I just don't trust Kilcoyne at international level (he is a fine Pro12 player don't get me wrong)

Mr Tickle

I see the logic.
Ross was in trouble in the scrum in the first test though and if he's not holding parity there it's hard to justify his place. Now maybe Roux made the difference (i don't know enough about the scrum to make that call) but Furlong is that bit more mobile and useful. Belham is a very handy player and can hold his own in the scrum.
On balance i think Kilcoyne is more useful than a Ross who's outmatched in the scrum.

RoundBox11

I'll eat my hat if it's not Olding and Marshall in the centre and Payne at fullback. TOH was only given 4 minutes in the series so far so I can't see Schmidt starting him in the most important match.

I know Schmidt name-checked TOH at 15 or Earls at 13 in his interview but id say thats as much so as not to make it a straight forward prediction for Coetzee

andymx11

Not that it means anything but TOH doing the press interviews with Toner this morning.

Shefwedfan

Where is Paddy Wallace on holiday? I think we should fly him in and get him straight into the team :-)

Jump_In_Jack

Adbrowne wrote: »

Just a guess at squad for the third test

McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Henderson, Stander, Ruddock, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH


Bealham, Cronin, Furlong, Dillane, Jordi, Marmion, Madigan, Gilroy

That's more or less what I would guess too.
I would start Murphy and have Ruddock on the bench.
It would depend on Henderson's fitness if he could start, if not I'd have Dillane start.
Gilroy at 23 gives us the option to move Payne to fullback, Earls to centre, Gilroy to wing if O'Halloran came off.
Olding could possibly go 23, or otherwise could try starting with Olding 12, Marshall 13, Payne 15, with O'Halloran 23.
It would be a pity for Healy not getting a run, but GIlroy must have shaded it in the selection.
Personally I would have selected a back three of Healy, Gilroy and O'Halloran for the 2nd test with Marshall on the bench, and rested Trimble and Payne for the final match.
Could have brought Marshall on for Henshaw around 55 minutes and tried out olding/Marshall combo in the centres.

former total

Mr Tickle wrote: »

I see the logic.
Ross was in trouble in the scrum in the first test though and if he's not holding parity there it's hard to justify his place. Now maybe Roux made the difference (i don't know enough about the scrum to make that call) but Furlong is that bit more mobile and useful. Belham is a very handy player and can hold his own in the scrum.
On balance i think Kilcoyne is more useful than a Ross who's outmatched in the scrum.

Was he? I don't remember this tbh.

I think Kilcoyne is the prop most likely to miss out, Ross and McGrath to start.

mareegoo

wp_rathead wrote: »

Start Dillane, Stander and Murphy
Let Dillane and Stander go ape for 55/60 mins
Bring on Henderson for Dillane and Ruddock for Stander for final 20/25 mins


McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Dillane, Stander, Murphy, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH

Cronin, Bealham, Furlong, Henderson, Ruddock, Marmion, Madigan, Healy

Yes exactly team i had in mind

Lovely bench as welll wraphead

will you coach ireland in 2017 after joe leaves ?

mareegoo

Mr Tickle wrote: »

Yeah this is more or less my thoughts too. Gilroy will probably beat Healy for the bench spot.
Maybe take the front row from last week.I thought furlong did brilliantly.

I hope healy makes bench spot
it would be completely disingenious of joe if he put gilroy ahead of him.

logically healy would find those gaps in 55/60 mins when boks are wilting a bit there is nothing defensively between gilroy and healy

if reddan makes bench it is to close out the series his experience in these circumstances would be invaluable.

RoundBox11

There's been a lot of mention of moving Payne back to 13 to shore up the defence in midfield but i think our midfield has been pretty watertight for both tests so i don't see why that's necessary. Marshall is a great defender and is used to defending the 13 channel and Olding did a good job at 12 on Saturday.

wp_rathead

mareegoo wrote: »

Yes exactly team i had in mind

Lovely bench as welll wraphead

will you coach ireland in 2017 after joe leaves ?

I'd be the rugby version of Paul Ince

Mr Tickle

former total wrote: »

Was he? I don't remember this tbh.

Well our scrum was a bit of an issue a few times. It seemed a lot more stable this week and Furlong was the change.

mareegoo wrote: »

I hope healy makes bench spot
it would be completely disingenious of joe if he put gilroy ahead of him.

logically healy would find those gaps in 55/60 mins when boks are wilting a bit there is nothing defensively between gilroy and healy

if reddan makes bench it is to close out the series his experience in these circumstances would be invaluable.

Gilroy has been picked over healy already so i'm assuming Joe prefers the look of him in training. I'm not sure which I'd have myself. Healy is terrific but I don't know how much of an opportunity he'd get to show it.

mareegoo

RoundBox11 wrote: »

There's been a lot of mention of moving Payne back to 13 to shore up the defence in midfield but i think our midfield has been pretty watertight for both tests so i don't see why that's necessary. Marshall is a great defender and is used to defending the 13 channel and Olding did a good job at 12 on Saturday.

im hoping it was the altitude but olding faded and faded fast in the second half

id be more comfortable with a payne / marshall axis defensively

i think joe needs sthg new whether its toh at full back or healy coming off bench or even reddan changing tactics mid way through second half to keep them guessing

dub_skav

I haven't seen much of Olding in the past, so had no real opinion on him either way. However, he did very little on Saturday to excite me in any way.
So, I would not be surprised to see Payne moved or even (god help us all) Earls.

Given Henshaw's injury, Olding may get another shot, but I don't think he earned it with his display on Saturday.

Mr Tickle

dub_skav wrote: »

I haven't seen much of Olding in the past, so had no real opinion on him either way. However, he did very little on Saturday to excite me in any way.
So, I would not be surprised to see Payne moved or even (god help us all) Earls.

Given Henshaw's injury, Olding may get another shot, but I don't think he earned it with his display on Saturday.

I'm inclined to agree with you. He fell off a couple of tackles. I'm imagine if we had another real centre there they'd get a shot. McCloskey for example.

awec

McCloskey would have been perfect for Saturday.

molloyjh

wp_rathead wrote: »

Start Dillane, Stander and Murphy
Let Dillane and Stander go ape for 55/60 mins
Bring on Henderson for Dillane and Ruddock for Stander for final 20/25 mins


McGrath, Best, Ross, Toner, Dillane, Stander, Murphy, Heaslip
Murray, Jackson, Earls, Marshall, Payne, Trimble, TOH

Cronin, Bealham, Furlong, Henderson, Ruddock, Marmion, Madigan, Healy

This.

Cronin, Furlong, Hendo and Ruddock all bring impact which we'll need. I don't think Gilroy did anything to deserve a second cap ahead of Healy getting his first, but it's fairly irrelevant anyway as neither would be getting much.

part time punk

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Where is Paddy Wallace on holiday? I think we should fly him in and get him straight into the team :-)

Dunno about Wallace but another Ulster 12, McCloskey, was in France at the Euros with his missus.

pickarooney

mareegoo wrote: »

I hope healy makes bench spot
it would be completely disingenious of joe if he put gilroy ahead of him.

logically healy would find those gaps in 55/60 mins when boks are wilting a bit there is nothing defensively between gilroy and healy

if reddan makes bench it is to close out the series his experience in these circumstances would be invaluable.

On what basis are the Boks going to wilt? So far it's being Ireland running out of steam so we'd need players to hold the fort more than anything.