4wd needed for double axle trailer?

tcow

Hi

I know there are some old posts on this, but I cant find more recent ones.

Wondering, do I need a 4wd to tow a double axle trailer/cow box?? Won't be pulling anything jeavye, like a digger or anything. Just small stuff, amf maybe a cow or few calves.

Iv got a B , B1 licence only.

Jimmy Garlic

It'll be grand. Take it handy. You don't need a 4wd.

tcow

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

It'll be grand. Take it handy. You don't need a 4wd.

Sound.�� But legal wise. If I get stopped, or have an accident??

speckled_park

Think you need a BE license to tow a cattle box

The Sidewards Man

A vw golf would pull a cow box no problem.

tcow

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

A vw golf would pull a cow box no problem.

Missing the point of the question I think!!:(

The Sidewards Man

No I'm not, a 4wd isn't needed. That is why I suggested a golf.

Jimmy Garlic

tcow wrote: »

Sound.�� But legal wise. If I get stopped, or have an accident??

Up to you. I don't have a BE licence and have no intention of handing over the bones of 100 quid and wasting a day to get one either.

Jesus.

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

A vw golf would pull a cow box no problem.

TDI

Neilw

I think this is how it works.

What ever the towing capacity of the car is cannot be exceeded, e.g 2005 golf tdi is 1400kg as per google.

So you can tow a trailer provided the unladen trailer weight, plus the load don't exceed 1400kg.

Secondly, the train weight, which is the combined weight of the tow car, trailer and load can't exceed 3500kg.

ianobrien

There's something about a B licence (not an EB one) being restricted to towing 700kg, including trailer. That would mean no towing of a twin axle as most of them have a GVW of over a tonne.

I'm open to correction on the figures and the exact wording.

Del2005

ianobrien wrote: »

There's something about a B licence (not an EB one) being restricted to towing 700kg, including trailer. That would mean no towing of a twin axle as most of them have a GVW of over a tonne.

I'm open to correction on the figures and the exact wording.

They throw in the 750kg to confuse people. On a B you can tow a combination of less than 3.5t. For higher licences you need an E to tow more than 750kg.

_Brian

On a B you can have a combined DGVW up to 3500kgs, the designed gross vehicle weights.
The important thing here is the designed weight.

So a twin axle trailer is going to be "designed" to be ~2000kgs

There will be a plate on your car showing its DGVW, but I'd say it's ~1800kgs, that gives a combined DGVW in this example of 3800kgs

So on a standard B you probably can't tow a twin axle trailer, even if it's empty as it's the designed weight that's important not the actual weight.

Now, 99% of trailers on the road have no plate and were knocked out behind some lads house in the garage. How would a guard tell what the DGVW of such a trailer be ?? You could argue that it's 750kgs ??

_Brian

The mention of trailers up to. DGVW of 750kg shows that essentially the law ignores trailers up to the 750dgvw limit.

Shown by the fact that on a standard B I can drive a vehicle of DGVW 3500kg (say a transit) and still tow a trailer with a DGVW of up to 750kgs.

Markcheese

I think the 4wd drive bit has a lot to do with towing capacity... things like pajero,landrover defender,d-max ect that have full time 4wd are rated to tow 3.5 ton max.
Land cruisers and hi-luxs ect are part time 4wd and I think only 2.5 ton towing..
Licence is the next issue... see above
Upshot is most fellas you see with minidiggers and full cowboxs behind a landcruiser are probably way overweight...

CiniO

Jesus. wrote: »

TDI

1.4 would do the job as well

CiniO

tcow wrote: »

Hi

I know there are some old posts on this, but I cant find more recent ones.

Wondering, do I need a 4wd to tow a double axle trailer/cow box?? Won't be pulling anything jeavye, like a digger or anything. Just small stuff, amf maybe a cow or few calves.

Iv got a B , B1 licence only.

There's no need for 4wd to tow any trailer.

However chances that you will be able to tow a double axle cowbox with your car having only B licence legally is slim to none.

Sh1tbag OToole

I pulled a rickety old double axle trailer full of timber out of a ditch with a 1.4 MPI Fabia and drove it about 20 miles one time. There was a bit of a smell of burning clutch a few times.

_Brian

CiniO wrote: »

There's no need for 4wd to tow any trailer.

However chances that you will be able to tow a double axle cowbox with your car having only B licence legally is slim to none.

Exactly, no mention of number of axles nor 4wd.
Know your design weights and that's all you need.

But the whole plated weights of trailers is an awful grey area. We have a twin axle builders style trailer. Bought it second hand maybe 20 years ago, and it was a home made trailer whenever it was new. So it doesn't have a plated DGVW. So what happens if
I'm stopped ??

CiniO

_Brian wrote: »

Exactly, no mention of number of axles nor 4wd.
Know your design weights and that's all you need.

But the whole plated weights of trailers is an awful grey area. We have a twin axle builders style trailer. Bought it second hand maybe 20 years ago, and it was a home made trailer whenever it was new. So it doesn't have a plated DGVW. So what happens if
I'm stopped ??

No one knows.
It's a big loophole in Irish law, making a requirements for licensing and towing based on trailer Design Gross Vehicle Weight (which is parameter specified by manufactuer) while at the same time, there is no law prohibiting usage of trailers which were homemade and never got any specified Gross Vehicle Weight plate or anything similar.

dr.fuzzenstein

CiniO wrote: »

1.4 would do the job as well

Every farmer knows that. A MKII 1.4 Golf will tow anything, double axle trailer with 3 bullocks no problem whatsoever! Perfect for pulling out 100 meters before a car doing 100 km/h and then trundling at 40 km/h for the next 32 km.:D

Sh1tbag OToole

CiniO wrote: »

No one knows.
It's a big loophole in Irish law, making a requirements for licensing and towing based on trailer Design Gross Vehicle Weight (which is parameter specified by manufactuer) while at the same time, there is no law prohibiting usage of trailers which were homemade and never got any specified Gross Vehicle Weight plate or anything similar.

I can see what will happen. They'll bring in EU mandatory type approval directives and that will be the finish of Irish trailer manufacturing. Or else it will be the case that only the big boys will be able to play on because only they'll shift the numbers to be able to afford the €50k+ approval fee for every trailer they design. Better to leave things as they are than to "fix" the loophole

TrailerBob

Markcheese wrote: »

I think the 4wd drive bit has a lot to do with towing capacity... things like pajero,landrover defender,d-max ect that have full time 4wd are rated to tow 3.5 ton max.
Land cruisers and hi-luxs ect are part time 4wd and I think only 2.5 ton towing..
Licence is the next issue... see above
Upshot is most fellas you see with minidiggers and full cowboxs behind a landcruiser are probably way overweight...

Too much inaccurate information here

1. Toyotas are full time 4wd, one of the few remaining.
Most others are running part time systems. 2wd on the road. Some of the Land Rover stuff is electronic

2. 90 & 120 series landcruiser (1998-2010) - are 2800kg rated - based on gross plated weight of the vehicle at 2850kg - believed an error of judgement on Toyotas part in engineers circles. They are certainly capable of more than that, but not legally.

3. Very few vehicles are actually 3.5 ton rated. Discovery/Defender and Range Rover are, as is the Landcruiser Amazon/200 and 3.2 Pajero. Some of the newer pickups too. 3.5 ton mini diggers are out for anything less than a truck. 1.5 ton digger and cattlebox are both going to come in under 3 ton (unless you wedge 6 bullocks in there)

4. 4x4 has nothing whatsoever to do with towing capacity. It just so happens that the majority of B license vehicles with higher towing capacity are 4wd.

5.OP please do a search here, or go onto the RSA site for the correct information instead of the "I heard that on the 3rd full moon of the second month you can tow a trailer without any licence" stuff.

Sorry just had to clear that up.

PADRAIC.M

All cars chassis plate give you towing capacity
On a Toyota subtract the top weight number from the weight in Kg below it gives the towing capacity

The Sidewards Man

Use a jdm 4x4 and home made trailer. Both are un rated and in the grey area.

TrailerBob

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Use a jdm 4x4 and home made trailer. Both are un rated and in the grey area.

And you're right, this is the difficulty. Unless you have massive weight behind it, you'll never be directed to the weighbridge by the Gardai though. Most operate the "If it looks right, it is right" policy

9935452

The Sidewards Man wrote: »

Use a jdm 4x4 and home made trailer. Both are un rated and in the grey area.

There was an article in the farmers journal a while back about the hilux vigo.
Jap imports that arent plated to tow anything. Therefore not legal to pull anything.
I know of a man who bought one new pulling a new plated cattlebox and was stopped by the guards .
He was told to take off the cattle box on the side of the road and get someone else to collect it.

The Sidewards Man

That man should have asked that guard where is the legislation on that.

Jimmy Garlic

9935452 wrote: »

There was an article in the farmers journal a while back about the hilux vigo.
Jap imports that arent plated to tow anything. Therefore not legal to pull anything.
I know of a man who bought one new pulling a new plated cattlebox and was stopped by the guards .
He was told to take off the cattle box on the side of the road and get someone else to collect it.

That kind of petty ''policing'' is just pr1ck acting. If yer man reported his new trailer stolen from the side of the road where he was told to leave it he wouldn't see them for hours, assuming they even bother to turn up at all.

Jesus.

Sh1tbag OToole wrote: »

I pulled a rickety old double axle trailer full of timber out of a ditch with a 1.4 MPI Fabia and drove it about 20 miles one time. There was a bit of a smell of burning clutch a few times.

You weren't driving it right Sh1tbag. Cinio could haul that timber up and down the Wicklow mountains and you wouldn't smell a thing

breakemall

Is it not correct that the maximum limit for towing is 1.5 times the gross vehicle weight for a 4x4 (this is the max and the plated max load could be set at less by the maker) and 0.75 times the gross vehicle vehicle weight for a 4x2?

That is why people say you need a 4x4 for twin axles, it is down to the weight of the trailer/load and not the number of axles?

With a B licence even driving a 4x4 you are limited to a max towing capacity of 750kg and max combined weight of vehicle and trailer of 3500kg?

The BE licence gives a max combined weight of vehicle and trailer of 7000kg but the 4x4 v 4x2 x vehicle weight/max plated towing capacity still applies?

I have seen a Toyota Corolla 1.4 towing an Ifor Williams 510 with 2 16hh+ horses so anything is possible. But if you have an accident you are probably screwed 7 ways to Sunday?