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N4 - Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod [route options published]

2

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    I'm looking forward to this one. There's no way to avoid a big Shannon bridge. Will they go north or south of CoS? Who can tell.


  • Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    spacetweek wrote: »
    I'm looking forward to this one. There's no way to avoid a big Shannon bridge. Will they go north or south of CoS? Who can tell.

    From looking at the topography, it seems it's most likely that the bypass will skirt round the north of COS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'd say going south of CoS is more likely. The new road will likely have to branch off the existing N4 south of Aghamore so going north of CoS is going to be a lot longer. Also, going north means ploughing throuhg Lough Eidin north west of CoS which is a protected ecological and heritage area. There is very little study area north west of the town for that reason Going south and roughly following the rail line would look like the best option to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭shanec1928


    marno21 wrote: »
    Route options due Wednesday next, the 19th, at 2pm.
    assuming this didnt happen, no mention of it online.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    shanec1928 wrote: »
    assuming this didnt happen, no mention of it online.

    It did, virtual consultation room here;

    https://virtualengage.arup.com/n4-carrick-on-shannon-to-dromod-project-consultation-no-2-alternatives-and-options/

    Routes both north and south of CoS, although I still think south is the better option. Going south, combined with the Black option as a distributor road on the northern side of the town looks like the best solution.

    East of CoS looks like predominently online upgrade, although possible offline section around Aghamore. Not sure how realistic 2+2 is for online upgrade, if it is to be SC then that raises the likelyhood of the bypass section also being SC.

    There is mention of potential public tranpsport, cycling and pedestrianisation which could be included in the overall plan which is good to have considered. Parking needs to be reduced, if not fully removed, from Quay Road and greater public space fronting the river provided.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    "local residents" - read, businesses concerned about passing traffic - "dismayed" by these plans apparently

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/leitrim-residents-dismayed-at-bypass-proposals-1.4602775

    And it took the guts of half an hour to get through the town southbound today for no apparent reason, the only obvious thing causing traffic to stop was very high usage of the pedestrian crossing out of the main town carpark.

    If your town is a tourist attraction it does not need to try attract long-distance travellers in.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Preferred route published

    Page 7 if you want to skip the muck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice


    I see they're also building a small link road to the north of the town centre. Seems sensible.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Interesting that it will follow the existing road for the whole eastern leg. Sounds like it would involve a lot of house demolition.



  • Registered Users Posts: 34 FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice


    Exactly what I was thinking. Strange decision.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    This seems a design done to be seen to not be building new roads, nothing else. The amount of house CPOs - either to demolish or to buy someone out due to disturbance - will cost huge sums; and the bridge is on a wider point of the river too.

    Not even kicking out at Aghamore seems very odd. That basemap is astonishingly old due to still showing the Aghamore PO - the PO and the shop/pub it was in are long closed!



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I don't get this.

    While the town clearly needs a bypass, the section from the town past Jamestown and Drumsna is recently built, after maybe 1995?

    Why would it need replacement?



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @L1011 - the background map (it is not the base-map upon which the project was designed!) is used to give the general public a quick frame of reference - if you're living near there, it's detailed enough that you can see quickly whether you might be affected by the build, and if you think you might, you can go and check the real, detailed, charts.



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Much of the existing N4 between Carrick and Aghamore is upgraded wide single so makes sense to reuse it. The bit between Carrick and the Jamestown/Drumsna bypass can be done aka the N4 upgrade outside Collooney.

    It’s the online upgrade through Aghamore that’s a bit mysterious.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I would assume they will avoid Aghamore, the text to the side states "The Preferred Option Corridor commences on the existing N4 within the townland of Cloongownagh where it progresses off-line south of the existing N4, north of the of the Dublin to Sligo railway line".

    After that, there aren't really that many houses directly on the existing road, just a couple of places with several houses relatively close together. Likely the only place where CPO and demolition is definitely needed is along the lake, but even they are older cottages which may not be lived in beyond the current occupants. There should be easy enough solutions everywhere else. West of the L3656, I'd assume there will be another off-line section as the new road heads towards the river. The existing road could be tied into the L3656, maybe redesignate that whole section as R299 or something like that.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    The 1990s bypass was done on the cheap and didn't provide a second river crossing which is what is really needed here. The existing bridge is narrow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,025 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    I agree with new bridge.

    Why not tie in with existing road maybe 1km south of Tesco?



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    The intent is to reuse the Jamestown-Drumsna section and nobody finds that strange.

    The odd thing is just how much of the non upgraded corridor they appear to be intending to use.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    @marno21 explained that re-use, but here's a typical example of what that existing corridor looks like: N4 - Google Maps

    There are still quite a few direct entrances on this route, which will need parallel access roads to deal with. However, the preferred corridor is 300 metres wide, and the final land-take for a 2+2 (the widest conceivable road type to be built here, and the most likely) is around 20~25 metres including earthworks fencing and verges. That does allow for a new road that isn't just a simple widening of the existing road, but for much of its length there are signs that the existing N4 here has wide strips of unused land beside it that could allow an online widening without the need to purchase more land.

    But even at 300 metres width, The preferred corridor still doesn't leave much space to go around Aghamore: Here's a rough sketch of where the corridor sits on an aerial view:




  • Registered Users Posts: 49 cartoncowboy


    Looks like the locals are not happy with whats proposed - Opposition groups forming..


    New group formed following “disappointing” N4 public bypass display - Leitrim Live (leitrimobserver.ie)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    That whole article is so badly written that it’s hard to make what anyone actually said or asked for. As far as I can tell, there are three complaints:

    • people will having a divided road at the end of their driveway, and will have to use parallel access roads to join or cross it. The only reply to this is really: tough **** mate, you built your house with an exit onto a national primary route - did you imagine it would never have to be widened?
    • some of the traffic surveys were performed during lockdown, and can’t give a real indication of real traffic numbers. Yes, they can: you scale the data up by the differences you see elsewehre in the project, and in the region, since end of lockdown. Even if they were done at normal traffic levels, these are only ever estimates based on a limited period of sampling, and the data is never taken at face value.
    • the lack of clarity about what will happen at Aughamore, as widening the current road is impossible. To this, I agree 100%. It’s ridiculous that they didn’t officially show a much wider corridor here, as the amount provided in the plans does not allow for any reasonable bypass of this village.




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,685 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Can we assume then that there will be no complaints about dividing communities, destroying livelihoods, etc. with a new-build offline route through farmland?



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    https://carrickdromod.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/274219-ARUP-ZZ-XX-FN-ZM-000007.pdf

    Project now being prioritized around the fantasies of the Minister.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,406 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    I know the traditional argument against bypasses is that you end up with a rosary-bead alignment, but that isn't going to happen here, because the bypass sections that are built are designed as part of longer schemes that can be constructed later.

    If the minister wasn’t from the Green Party, you’d be all for this as a way of getting something delivered on a limited budget. And yes, the budget is limited, and that’s nothing to do with Eamon Ryan either...



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,446 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    At least something is being done - this will have huge impacts on a trip i take frequently. It'll make Expressway to Sligo a lot more consistent too



  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Indeed. I know it’s some time out, and will be under a different Government but the bulk of roads capital funding is during the period 2026-2030. There is currently 2 projects advancing with planning not at tender, so there will definitely be budget there at that stage to do the entire N4 project by then. The eastern 11.5km pruned from this project is also an online upgrade, so cheaper.



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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,332 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Rather than a complaint about Ryan etc, my one issue with cutting back schemes like this is that many of them have a high value add component and some low value add parts. The obvious high value add part here is the Carrick bypass, however the project also includes 11.5km of safety upgrades to the east, improving both safety and capacity, and removing a gap between 2 dual carriageways. If you take out the Carrick bypass part the eastern section becomes less attractive to develop on its own

    Same as in Cork, they could have built an 8km Macroom bypass and be done with it but instead we’re getting a 22km bypass of 2 towns and removing some bad sections in between. A much better outcome



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