N4 - Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod [route options published]

marno21

A scheme which will likely be high up the list when the current batch of projects are done. Carrick-on-Shannon is one of the most frequent bottlenecks on AA Roadwatch.

Sam Russell

I would have thought the most frequent one was the right turn from Con Colbert Road onto the S. Circular Rd was mentioned every day.

Carawaystick

Sam Russell wrote: »

I would have thought the most frequent one was the right turn from Con Colbert Road onto the S. Circular Rd was mentioned every day.

The OP's post is about the N4. You are talking about the R148.

L1011

Carawaystick wrote: »

The OP's post is about the N4. You are talking about the R148.

That it's on the same former route is irrelevant, it is mentioned more

Sam Russell

Carawaystick wrote: »

The OP's post is about the N4. You are talking about the R148.

I am merely pointing out that Con Collbert Road is mentioned every morning, along with Drumkettle roundabout (although I have no idea where it is other than Cork).

I cannot recall any mention of Carrick-on-Shannon, but then they generally use local names that I would not recognise.

marno21

I mean towns around the country that need bypassing. The most frequent ones are Carrick, Adare, Macroom, New Ross, Buttevant etc.

There's too many urban congested junctions to list, grade seperation would be difficult the majority of them

spacetweek

marno21 wrote: »

There's too many urban congested junctions to list, grade seperation would be difficult the majority of them

The solution to congested urban junctions is to reduce traffic, not big construction projects.

BelfastVanMan

Has that ever worked in practice, before?

spacetweek

BelfastVanMan wrote: »

Has that ever worked in practice, before?

Constantly! It's actually the most common way of dealing with that problem.

Would you prefer if every urban road junction was replaced with a grade separated one? That was attempted in the 20th century and people didn't like it.

Back on topic. Carrick is especially affected by traffic problems as the whole town is laid out along the main road on both sides. Ideal candidate for a bypass, greater need than the Mullingar-Longford dual.

BelfastVanMan

Not EVERY one, but there are plenty of urban junctions around Belfast that could and should be grade seperated.

Yes, back on topic...I agree, the Carrick bypass is a priority, certainly it should be ahead of the Mullingar to Longford N4 HQDC upgrade, but what is the official line on this?
I haven't even seen it mentioned by TII anywhere..?

JupiterKid

Carrick got a partial bypass back in 1984 which worked for a long time but the narrow bridge over the Shannon is a real bottleneck.

I hope that this scheme proceeds sooner rather than later.

marno21

JupiterKid wrote: »

Carrick got a partial bypass back in 1984 which worked for a long time but the narrow bridge over the Shannon is a real bottleneck.

I hope that this scheme proceeds sooner rather than later.

All of these 1980s bypasses were half arsed affairs that are effectively inner relief roads now, Galway, Limerick, New Ross, Mallow, Killarney and Castlebar spring to mind. Only in the 90s did we start doing them properly (Rathkeale being one of the first)

L1011

The birth of the separated DC bypass was when we started doing it right - Naas as the outlier then Athlone/Newbridge/North Kildare Towns/Dunleer all built around the same time. Good wide singles well outside the town and sometimes with separation appeared after.

There is a 1980s Dail debate listing the Department (I think the Department of the Environment - no Transport then) plans for bypasses and nearly all of them are places we wouldn't consider bypassed now or have required doing again. Limerick, New Ross, Letterkenny, Carrick, etc. Actually - the number of them that are screwed by attempting to reuse an existing bridge is huge - Carrick, New Ross and the original Limerick one in particular!

marno21

This scheme has been reactivated by TII. €25k allocation in 2018.

Will likely be part of the new Capital Plan.

Mullingar-Roosky is in there too. This will mean continious dual carriageway from the M50 to north of Carrick.

marno21

Article on Carrick's traffic problems in the Leitrim Observer, with local politicians calling for a relief road to be built if this scheme is delayed any further

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/292568/business-in-carrick-on-shannon-is-being-lost-due-to-ongoing-traffic-problems.html

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

Article on Carrick's traffic problems in the Leitrim Observer, with local politicians calling for a relief road to be built if this scheme is delayed any further

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/292568/business-in-carrick-on-shannon-is-being-lost-due-to-ongoing-traffic-problems.html

Well perhaps if they'd kept development off the existing IRR there wouldn't be such problems now but hey ho.

SeanW

Only problem is that the new road there was never a bypass, all it was skirt the town centre while cutting it off from one of its marinas and key Shannonside parks.

And it didn't do anything about the old bridge, which is still the bottleneck.

Carrick always needed a proper bypass and still does. Then, the existing route should be turned from a road into a street.

marno21

According to the TII website, this project has now moved into the pre-appraisal stage where the project will be assessed to see if it merits prioritisation for funding under the National Development Plan. I fully expect this to enter full planning by the end of 2018.

L1011

2 years of muttering about the potential for any border nonsense means all the dualling and bypass schemes on the N4/N15 are going to have to be prioritised. Can't trust NI to give us decent access to Donegal.

marno21

Confirmed by Shane Ross in the Seanad during the week that this will proceed to planning & design in early 2019 having passed pre appraisal stage.

21km of upgrade between Drumhawlow Co. Roscommon & Faulties Co. Leitrim (the northern terminus of the Dromod Roosky bypass). The section between Tully, Co. Leitrim and Faulties, Co. Leitrim will be an upgrade of the existing N4.

marno21

Tender issues for Phases 1-4

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=151037&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

marno21

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/home/487976/design-for-carrick-on-shannon-by-pass-goes-back-to-zero.html

Consultants should be appointed shortly.

marno21

Awarded to Arup

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/228852

marno21

Tender out for traffic surveys of the route

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/173336/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/publictenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

marno21

Scheme website launched @ https://carrickdromod.ie/

Scheme is now at route selection. The study area is on the website, from the northern end of the Dromod-Roosky bypass all the way to Carrick Golf Club. 21km of route to be replaced. Quite a hefty bypass and most welcome. With this, the Collooney-Castlebaldwin and Mullingar-Roosky project, a total of 87km of N4 up for replacement.

franglan

marno21 wrote: »

Scheme website launched @ https://carrickdromod.ie/

Scheme is now at route selection. The study area is on the website, from the northern end of the Dromod-Roosky bypass all the way to Carrick Golf Club. 21km of route to be replaced. Quite a hefty bypass and most welcome. With this, the Collooney-Castlebaldwin and Mullingar-Roosky project, a total of 87km of N4 up for replacement.

Study area is south and north of Carrick - previous proposed routes where north. Phase 1 goes through previous alliterations.

shanec1928

assume logically looking at the map before the routes are announced that it will go along as close to the bottom of the study area and a single river crossing before lough tap

marno21

Tender out for ground investigation:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/178558/0/0?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Should be a public consultation with route options in the new year.

spacetweek

Scheme website is crap - keeps failing to download the PDFs of the study options. Interactive map is all you need.

Pete_Cavan

Anyone know what is going on here?

https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/abd99-n4-carrick-on-shannon-to-dromod-project-presentation-of-options-public-consultation-no-2/

N4 Carrick-on-Shannon to Dromod Project - Presentation of Options -Public Consultation No. 2
From Leitrim County Council

Published on 18 March 2021

Open for submissions from 23 March 2021

Submissions closed 20 April 2021

Last updated on 18 March 2021

No sign of an open consultation on the linked website.

marno21

Route options due Wednesday next, the 19th, at 2pm.

spacetweek

I'm looking forward to this one. There's no way to avoid a big Shannon bridge. Will they go north or south of CoS? Who can tell.

BelfastVanMan

spacetweek wrote: »

I'm looking forward to this one. There's no way to avoid a big Shannon bridge. Will they go north or south of CoS? Who can tell.

From looking at the topography, it seems it's most likely that the bypass will skirt round the north of COS.

Pete_Cavan

I'd say going south of CoS is more likely. The new road will likely have to branch off the existing N4 south of Aghamore so going north of CoS is going to be a lot longer. Also, going north means ploughing throuhg Lough Eidin north west of CoS which is a protected ecological and heritage area. There is very little study area north west of the town for that reason Going south and roughly following the rail line would look like the best option to me.

shanec1928

marno21 wrote: »

Route options due Wednesday next, the 19th, at 2pm.

assuming this didnt happen, no mention of it online.

Pete_Cavan

shanec1928 wrote: »

assuming this didnt happen, no mention of it online.

It did, virtual consultation room here;

https://virtualengage.arup.com/n4-carrick-on-shannon-to-dromod-project-consultation-no-2-alternatives-and-options/

Routes both north and south of CoS, although I still think south is the better option. Going south, combined with the Black option as a distributor road on the northern side of the town looks like the best solution.

East of CoS looks like predominently online upgrade, although possible offline section around Aghamore. Not sure how realistic 2+2 is for online upgrade, if it is to be SC then that raises the likelyhood of the bypass section also being SC.

There is mention of potential public tranpsport, cycling and pedestrianisation which could be included in the overall plan which is good to have considered. Parking needs to be reduced, if not fully removed, from Quay Road and greater public space fronting the river provided.

marno21

https://www.leitrimobserver.ie/news/carrick-on-shannon/642240/carrick-on-shannon-bypass-design-is-still-two-years-away.html

L1011

"local residents" - read, businesses concerned about passing traffic - "dismayed" by these plans apparently

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/leitrim-residents-dismayed-at-bypass-proposals-1.4602775

And it took the guts of half an hour to get through the town southbound today for no apparent reason, the only obvious thing causing traffic to stop was very high usage of the pedestrian crossing out of the main town carpark.

If your town is a tourist attraction it does not need to try attract long-distance travellers in.

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/proposed-options-for-n4-dromod-to-carrick-road-to-be-published-by-summer-200552

marno21

Preferred route published

https://carrickdromod.ie/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/274219-ARUP-02-OS-PP-YE-000009.pdf

Page 7 if you want to skip the muck.

FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice

I see they're also building a small link road to the north of the town centre. Seems sensible.

spacetweek

Interesting that it will follow the existing road for the whole eastern leg. Sounds like it would involve a lot of house demolition.

FreedomOfSpeechAndChoice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099416#Comment_119099416

Exactly what I was thinking. Strange decision.

L1011

This seems a design done to be seen to not be building new roads, nothing else. The amount of house CPOs - either to demolish or to buy someone out due to disturbance - will cost huge sums; and the bridge is on a wider point of the river too.

Not even kicking out at Aghamore seems very odd. That basemap is astonishingly old due to still showing the Aghamore PO - the PO and the shop/pub it was in are long closed!

Geuze

I don't get this.

While the town clearly needs a bypass, the section from the town past Jamestown and Drumsna is recently built, after maybe 1995?

Why would it need replacement?

KrisW1001

@L1011 - the background map (it is not the base-map upon which the project was designed!) is used to give the general public a quick frame of reference - if you're living near there, it's detailed enough that you can see quickly whether you might be affected by the build, and if you think you might, you can go and check the real, detailed, charts.

marno21

Much of the existing N4 between Carrick and Aghamore is upgraded wide single so makes sense to reuse it. The bit between Carrick and the Jamestown/Drumsna bypass can be done aka the N4 upgrade outside Collooney.

It’s the online upgrade through Aghamore that’s a bit mysterious.

Pete_Cavan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119099595#Comment_119099595

I would assume they will avoid Aghamore, the text to the side states "The Preferred Option Corridor commences on the existing N4 within the townland of Cloongownagh where it progresses off-line south of the existing N4, north of the of the Dublin to Sligo railway line".

After that, there aren't really that many houses directly on the existing road, just a couple of places with several houses relatively close together. Likely the only place where CPO and demolition is definitely needed is along the lake, but even they are older cottages which may not be lived in beyond the current occupants. There should be easy enough solutions everywhere else. West of the L3656, I'd assume there will be another off-line section as the new road heads towards the river. The existing road could be tied into the L3656, maybe redesignate that whole section as R299 or something like that.

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119100278#Comment_119100278

The 1990s bypass was done on the cheap and didn't provide a second river crossing which is what is really needed here. The existing bridge is narrow.

Geuze

I agree with new bridge.

Why not tie in with existing road maybe 1km south of Tesco?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119108441#Comment_119108441

The intent is to reuse the Jamestown-Drumsna section and nobody finds that strange.

The odd thing is just how much of the non upgraded corridor they appear to be intending to use.