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Leinster V Rugby's Biggest Bandwagon; 28/5/2016 17:30 Murrayfield: SS3 & TG4

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    #662
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    Basil3 wrote: »
    No? Carrying muscle mass is always going to be better than carrying fat mass. Enough fat to protect the body a bit from impact, anything more than that is a waste.

    You're wrong. The more muscle you have the quicker you gas. There are huge benefits in a game like rugby to carrying fat as it gives you extra weight in contact without depleting your oxygen levels like extra muscle mass would.


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    #663
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,490 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    You're vastly underrating Te'o there. Our best back this season by a fair distance.

    That's probably one of Leinster's problems. Leinster's season was more built on excellent defence (until yesterday) rather than scintillating attack.

    Look, he has genuine potential, he will only get better, but he was outclassed yesterday, and I'm still genuinely surprised he's on the plane to Australia.

    Maybe he'll prove me totally wrong, it's happened on multiple occasions...


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    #664
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    WarZ wrote: »
    Not really. Players will make an effort to keep the weight up in certain positions by eating extra calories. Sean O'Brien is a great example, hes very muscular but carries fat.

    The reason players will still have fat is because in order to save their muscle players will need to eat more calories and this results in players carrying fat in addition to muscle. That's why its strange that Peter Robb can be 17 stone, extremely muscular and with no fat on him whatsoever. Its almost impossible to keep that sort of muscular size in a cardio intensive sport while remaining completely lean.

    I understand the physiology of it, I have a Sport Science degree. A big part of it is genetics, but you have to realise that Robb is essentially the same build as someone like Sonny Bill Williams.

    For every player, there will be optimal levels for performance. Ideally, every player would have a physique like Robb, but genetically they can't achieve it. As I pointed out a while ago in the main Irish rugby thread, the All Blacks team doctor told me in a lecture about 15 years ago that his biggest problem was stopping players from getting too lean.


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    #665
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    WarZ wrote: »
    You're wrong. The more muscle you have the quicker you gas. There are huge benefits in a game like rugby to carrying fat as it gives you extra weight in contact without depleting your oxygen levels like extra muscle mass would.

    Two players with the same amount of muscle, one carrying an extra stone of fat around the pitch all day. There's only one winner.

    As I said in my other post, there's an optimal level for each player. Carrying a gut is very rarely an optimal level, and that's what a lot of players do.


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    #666
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,067 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Homecoming parade today in Galway at 4 for the team.

    This win can only be good for Connacht and Irish rugby.


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    #667
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    CowboyTed wrote: »
    Honestly if you think Dave Kearney had a good game your knowledge of rugby is lacking...

    His opposite number ran riot all day... Actually the whole Connacht back 3 comprehensively beat the Leinster back 3....

    It's not my knowledge of rugby you should be worried about if you think an opposite number playing well means a player had a bad game.

    DK made great yards and consistently got us back into the game towards the end, his work in the air, lines ran and broke tackles were great.

    If you think DK had a poor game then I think you should rematch the game, maybe leave the confirmation bias at the door.


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    #668
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,067 ✭✭✭✭phog


    No Leinster player had a "great" game yesterday, Dave & Heaslip were the pick of Leinster's best players but they were ok, no more than that.

    Maybe you could argue if other players were as good as them or Dave got better ball he might have shone but he didn't get it and didn't really stand out as one of the MotM contenders.


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    #669
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    Rightwing wrote: »
    They won at a canter, only a fool would suggest otherwise.

    Without delving too deep into it: If you can keep the opposition scoreless for an entire half, and to 3 points until the game is effectively over. Sometimes we need to confront reality, however painful it may be: Connacht won at a canter and I congratulate them for doing so.

    Don't post in this thread again. You've done nothing but stick the knife into Leinster fans since the final whistle, you've had your fun now go elsewhere please.


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    #670
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    phog wrote: »
    No Leinster player had a "great" game yesterday, Dave & Heaslip were the pick of Leinster's best players but they were ok, no more than that.

    Maybe you could argue if other players were as good as them or Dave got better ball he might have shone but he didn't get it and didn't really stand out as one of the MotM contenders.

    I don't know, I think players can have great games but still get a hiding. I thought Heaslip was everywhere, bar the first try he got through a mountain of work and was extremely hungry and was a constant thorn in their side.


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    #671
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,067 ✭✭✭✭phog


    .ak wrote: »
    I don't know, I think players can have great games but still get a hiding. I thought Heaslip was everywhere, bar the first try he got through a mountain of work and was extremely hungry and was a constant thorn in their side.

    I think we differ on what great games mean.


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    #672
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Leinster was Joe Schmidt's first full time head coach position. Michael Cheika joined from Randwick.

    Ah hold on there...Schmidt was assistant coach to a very successful Clermont Auvergne team (working with Vern Cotter) for 3 years before he joined Leinster.


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    #673
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Ah hold on there...Schmidt was assistant coach to a very successful Clermont Auvergne team (working with Vern Cotter) for 3 years before he joined Leinster.

    Yes, and he actually stood in as head coach briefly on a temporary basis, and he had tons of great experience before that, which Cullen doesn't have, but we still have had success with giving guys their chance and I don't really see why that couldn't also apply to Cullen (not that it necessarily will).


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    #674
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    That's probably one of Leinster's problems. Leinster's season was more built on excellent defence (until yesterday) rather than scintillating attack.

    Look, he has genuine potential, he will only get better, but he was outclassed yesterday, and I'm still genuinely surprised he's on the plane to Australia.

    Maybe he'll prove me totally wrong, it's happened on multiple occasions...

    I agree. The fact we were relying on a player who was only learning the game came back to haunt us yesterday. He looked disinterested. Totally outclassed by Henshaw and Aki.


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    #675
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    phog wrote: »
    I think we differ on what great games mean.

    I don't think I've ever seen you mention Heaslip in a positive light on this forum. It's getting old.


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    #676
    WarZ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 972 ✭✭✭WarZ


    .ak wrote: »
    Don't post in this thread again. You've done nothing but stick the knife into Leinster fans since the final whistle, you've had your fun now go elsewhere please.

    Go easy on him he's had to endure a much worse season than Leinster fans :pac:


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    #677
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Yes, and he actually stood in as head coach briefly on a temporary basis, and he had tons of great experience before that, which Cullen doesn't have, but we still have had success with giving guys their chance and I don't really see why that couldn't also apply to Cullen (not that it necessarily will).

    Look, I would really like it to work out for Leo. He was a brilliant leader and a great player.
    My problem with this is he should be learning his trade under the tutelage of an an experienced coach - as Joe did under Vern Cotter.
    I know they tried this with MOC (but let's not go there). Our playing resources are reasonably strong but we do look poorly coached (the backs in particular).
    We also need a replacement 10, a couple of wingers, a lock forward, a full back and a tight head.....it's worrying.


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    #678
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    LorMal wrote: »
    Look, I would really like it to work out for Leo. He was a brilliant leader and a great player.
    My problem with this is he should be learning his trade under the tutelage of an an experienced coach - as Joe did under Vern Cotter.
    I know they tried this with MOC (but let's not go there). Our playing resources are reasonably strong but we do look poorly coached (the backs in particular).
    We also need a replacement 10, a couple of wingers, a lock forward, a full back and a tight head.....it's worrying.

    I don't think many would disagree, most people wanted someone more experienced than Cullen but unfortunately there aren't any Irish coaches that fit the bill and we don't have the resources to attract high calibre foreigners with elite level head coaching experience, and we never have had those resources, beyond MOC (who was a head coach under a much more influential DoR, so even that was slightly different)


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    #679
    Yeah_Right
    Registered Users Posts: 5,972 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    LorMal wrote: »
    Look, I would really like it to work out for Leo. He was a brilliant leader and a great player.
    My problem with this is he should be learning his trade under the tutelage of an an experienced coach - as Joe did under Vern Cotter.
    I know they tried this with MOC (but let's not go there). Our playing resources are reasonably strong but we do look poorly coached (the backs in particular).
    We also need a replacement 10, a couple of wingers, a lock forward, a full back and a tight head.....it's worrying.

    I'd agree with most of that except you don't need a lock. You've got plenty of talent there. TH maybe but with the front row production line at Leinster, I'm sure there's a couple coming through.


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    #680
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    I don't think many would disagree, most people wanted someone more experienced than Cullen but unfortunately there aren't any Irish coaches that fit the bill and we don't have the resources to attract high calibre foreigners with elite level head coaching experience, and we never have had those resources, beyond MOC (who was a head coach under a much more influential DoR, so even that was slightly different)

    I don't fully accept that. Munster (with less resources and a growing debt) have just signed one such coach.
    Anyway, it doesn't have to be some household name coach (as you rightly point out - Cheika and Schmidt were pretty low profile before they joined Leinster). However, I do think it is extremely difficult for a former Leinster player to coach his former team mates - without at least having had some solid coaching experience elsewhere first.


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    #681
    Stan27
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Stan27


    LorMal wrote: »
    Look, I would really like it to work out for Leo. He was a brilliant leader and a great player.
    My problem with this is he should be learning his trade under the tutelage of an an experienced coach - as Joe did under Vern Cotter.
    I know they tried this with MOC (but let's not go there). Our playing resources are reasonably strong but we do look poorly coached (the backs in particular).
    We also need a replacement 10, a couple of wingers, a lock forward, a full back and a tight head.....it's worrying.

    I would be more inclined to let the young lads get game time.
    Replacement 10, let Byrne and carberry play. Great potential.
    Regards wingers, I think give Adam Byrne the 14 jersey next season and see how he gets on. Invest in the youth.


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    #682
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Yeah_Right wrote: »
    I'd agree with most of that except you don't need a lock. You've got plenty of talent there. TH maybe but with the front row production line at Leinster, I'm sure there's a couple coming through.

    TH is a real speciality position. I have been hoping for Furlong but I am not convinced. He looked exhausted after 15 mins yesterday.


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    #683
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    Stan27 wrote: »
    I would be more inclined to let the young lads get game time.
    Replacement 10, let Byrne and carberry play. Great potential.
    Regards wingers, I think give Adam Byrne the 14 jersey next season and see how he gets on. Invest in the youth.

    Fair enough - I haven't seen enough of them to comment.


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    #684
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Adbrowne wrote: »
    He didn't have the internationals in july, august, september, october, february and march. If connacht had to do without 15-20 players (pick the opposite numbers to the ones leinster had away) at the same time as leinster had to they wouldnt have got near a final.

    Connacht will have that problem next season, Leinster less so. :)


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    #685
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 24,067 ✭✭✭✭phog


    WarZ wrote: »
    I don't think I've ever seen you mention Heaslip in a positive light on this forum. It's getting old.

    Aside from your incorrect snide comment do you think Heaslip was as good yesterday as he has been for Leinster, using that type of benchmark for all the players yesterday then I think It's hard to argue that any of them had great games.


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    #686
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    feargale wrote: »
    Connacht will have that problem next season, Leinster less so. :)

    Keep it gracious there FG


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    #687
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    Has there ever been a more popular player at a province than Bundee Aki?

    https://www.instagram.com/p/BF-e9SzEy00/?taken-by=bundeeaki_

    Isa is the only other player I can think of where you'd regularly hear his name chanted, and I think that might just be because it's quite easy to chant.


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    #688
    sheep?
    Closed Accounts Posts: 824 ✭✭✭sheep?


    I'm so bloody happy for Muldoon.

    image.jpg

    LOOK at that face.

    Ye absolute bastards. Fair play, well deserved, see you next season! ;)


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    #689
    Rightwing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,101 ✭✭✭Rightwing


    Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »
    I believe the point being made was that the Pro12 is more than one game (the final). Connacht won the final well, not quite at a canter, but well. As for the whole season, I wouldn't call that a canter.

    Fair point in that case.

    MOD: You were told not to post in this thread again. If you want to ignore the mod's fine, take a week break the forum, you can ignore everyone then.


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    #690
    .ak
    Registered Users Posts: 30,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭.ak


    WarZ wrote: »
    Go easy on him he's had to endure a much worse season than Leinster fans :pac:

    Don't use a mod warning to goad another poster, it's not very funny.


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    #691
    reap-a-rat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭reap-a-rat


    Adbrowne wrote: »
    He didn't have the internationals in july, august, september, october, february and march. If connacht had to do without 15-20 players (pick the opposite numbers to the ones leinster had away) at the same time as leinster had to they wouldnt have got near a final.

    There were weeks and weeks in a row where connacht could have picked a pretty much full strength team from the injured and unavailable list. This was when the likes of Robb, Parata, Blade, O'Brien, Connolly and Delahunt all stepped up. Lots of folks tend to overlook the shocking constant lengthy injury lists from October til March which left us with bare bones and granted we lost a few games but we were still racking up the points alongside that.

    And when White was away for the world cup, Finlay Bealham who had been a liability in previous seasons with audible groans when he would come on, really stepped up and made himself undroppable and got himself on the Ireland radar.

    This is what should be looked at when considering the Connacht success. They used the squad superbly. The whole squad. James Connollys first start in the pro 12 was against Munster in Thomond and he was already so integrated in the squad he played like a veteran. It shouldn't matter to a team who is unavailable when the entire squad is kept up to speed the whole time. And it could be argued that a leinster just didn't manage their squad as well - which is foolish considering they consistently have to lose players to Ireland. They should always be ready for that eventuality.


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