Suicide in Ireland.

George Michael

i know a couple who committed suicide in my area. for one guy he saw himself as failure because he didnt have a job or girlfriend.

frozenfrozen

panda100 wrote: »

No actually its not. We have a moderate suicide rate with comparison with the rest of the world. The only difference is that the local Limerick media and people appear to be obsessed with suicide so is highlighted much more than it should be.

???????????? I'm giving my personal experience that here in Limerick it's a massive issue. That's great if it works out to be a 'moderate' suicide rate compared to the rest of the world but that rate just so happens to match up exactly with people I know

Every time I look out the window there's a ****ing helicopter looking for someone in the shannon

It is the culture we all live within and contribute to that causes depression and suicide and all the well meaning charitable events will not change this fact. The struggle to feed, heat, clothe etc. oneself and ones family has been replaced with a struggle to remain psychologically intact when our minds' operating time is freed up to be concerned with other stuff.

wokingvoter

kneemos wrote: »

Suicide was hidden in the past,it was one of the big sins in the church,and it was bizzarly illegal for some reason.

But since the church has quenched it's light here, and suicide is no longer illegal, it's reached epidemic proportions.
How do you feel about that?

razorblunt

Had a family member commit suicide in their early 70s. I still remember the shock and sudden impact of it.
Thankfully it's not something I've come across since in my close circle, or even with lads I knew from school.

There was a poor lad who was in my rugby team back when we were 12/13, lovely guy, quite soft natured, you could tell he was the type of guy who might have got bullied, think he was sent along as a "toughen him up" exercise. Never quite took to the rugby, was too timid, but got on well with everyone. Didn't come back the next season.
Saw his name in the paper 2 years later, the guy had hung himself using his fathers weights.

In hindsight given the focus on suicide the last few years, that was an incredibly young age.

FalconGirl

panda100 wrote: »

No actually its not. We have a moderate suicide rate with comparison with the rest of the world. The only difference is that the local Limerick media and people appear to be obsessed with suicide so is highlighted much more than it should be.

It's a massive issue countrywide and I'd go as far as saying a huge chunk of it is being covered up. I'm not buying into that moderate compared with the rest of the world balloney. I've lost a father and an uncle to it. I've known many many more. There is something very sick in our society caused by a variation of factors.

Your attitude is worringly dismissive towards a huge crisis.

bernard0368

Since I lost my son to suicide,
I have net people from all parts of society who have lost a loved one. I find it a little hard to put a finger on any one cause in particular. I am not sure I could even tell you why my own son took his life.

I firmly believe that our mental health system is unfit for purpose and there will be no change in it until such time people are held to account for the actions and decisions. (There is a story here for another day)

There were two things that did strike me after my sons death.

A week after the funeral I visited my sons grave, to find a nun praying over it. We got talking and she told me that once a week she visits the graves of people who have died in the community. My son was the 12th suicide she prayed for in that one week and she wasn't finished she believed that she was to pray over 5/6 more.

The other was the coroner, who offered us a couple of options on wording that could be used on the death cert. It did make me think at the time that there could be a lot of unrecorded suicides in this country.

eviltwin

bernard0368 wrote: »

Since I lost my son to suicide,
I have net people from all parts of society who have lost a loved one. I find it a little hard to put a finger on any one cause in particular. I am not sure I could even tell you why my own son took his life.

I firmly believe that our mental health system is unfit for purpose and there will be no change in it until such time people are held to account for the actions and decisions. (There is a story here for another day)

There were two things that did strike me after my sons death.

A week after the funeral I visited my sons grave, to find a nun praying over it. We got talking and she told me that once a week she visits the graves of people who have died in the community. My son was the 12th suicide she prayed for in that one week and she wasn't finished she believed that she was to pray over 5/6 more.

The other was the coroner, who offered us a couple of options on wording that could be used on the death cert. It did make me think at the time that there could be a lot of unrecorded suicides in this country.

I'm so sorry for your loss Bernard

Ruu

Two cousins within the last 5 years (from Dublin) and three schoolmates from small town, at least one of them ran into debt and couldn't see a way out, this I hear is a common theme. Another friend has attempted a number of times and only for he uses ECT sessions regularly again, he wouldn't be around either.

KomradeBishop

The new government goals, aim to have unemployment at 6% by 2021 - i.e. well over a decade of high unemployment, leaving a portion of a whole generation of people, behind.

When you live in a society that views it as acceptable, to leave people behind like that, and for such conditions to last more than a decade (in reality, it may be multiple decades, as we're in for more economic trouble) - then it's no surprise that suicide will become a serious problem.

To stem high suicide rates, you need to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to work (particularly fulfilling work), and to earn enough to live a decent life, so that they can have a secure chance at having good future prospects.

In a system where long-term high unemployment is acceptable, some portion of people will have poor future prospects as a result of that, and many of them will have materially or socially or otherwise deprived lives, which may drive them to suicide.

xabi

panda100 wrote: »

No actually its not. We have a moderate suicide rate with comparison with the rest of the world. The only difference is that the local Limerick media and people appear to be obsessed with suicide so is highlighted much more than it should be.

Limerick City has the highest rate in the country, unfortunately.

lawlolawl

KomradeBishop wrote: »

The new government goals, aim to have unemployment at 6% by 2021 - i.e. well over a decade of high unemployment, leaving a portion of a whole generation of people, behind.

When you live in a society that views it as acceptable, to leave people behind like that, and for such conditions to last more than a decade (in reality, it may be multiple decades, as we're in for more economic trouble) - then it's no surprise that suicide will become a serious problem.

To stem high suicide rates, you need to make sure that everybody has the opportunity to work (particularly fulfilling work), and to earn enough to live a decent life, so that they can have a secure chance at having good future prospects.

In a system where long-term high unemployment is acceptable, some portion of people will have poor future prospects as a result of that, and many of them will have materially or socially or otherwise deprived lives, which may drive them to suicide.

I'm not entirely sure jobs have that much to do with it to be honest.

You could have the greatest job in the country and still be utterly miserable with your life otherwise.

Muahahaha

freshpopcorn wrote: »

One thing I do notice is when somebody commits suicide sometimes people can go into social media overdrive taking about the person and they might influence another vunerable young person.

This is very true and has been studied extensively. Its called suicide clustering.

What is Suicidal Contagion and what are Suicide Clusters?

It has long been believed that when suicidal contagion occurs, a suicide
cluster can develop. A cluster, in this case, is defined as multiple suicidal
behaviours or suicides that fall within an accelerated time frame, and
sometimes within a defined geographical area. Studies have shown that
adolescents are the ones most affected (Zenere, 2009).

There are two main types of clusters. A mass cluster involves suicides
that cluster in time - irrespective of geography - and are often associated
with the influence that media reports may have, such as suicides by
celebrities. Point clusters involve suicides that are close in time and/
or space. They often occur within institutional settings such as hospitals,
prisons, or schools, or within distinct communities.

https://suicideinfo.ca/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=WXg70KbEYsA=

After Kurt Cobain and Marilyn Monroe committed suicide the rates rose nationally.

More local there might have been a suicide cluster in Newbridge, Kildare just 6 weeks ago. 5 men, all in their 30s and 40s were lost to suicide. They may not have known one another but its likely that they were already suffering mental health problems and when one person locally went by suicide it planted the idea in their head.

The tragic deaths of five young men in the Newbridge area over the past month has raised fears of a possible suicide cluster in the Co Kildare town.
The deaths, four in the town and one nearby, has caused shock in the area. Three were in their 30s, and one in his early 40s.
No obvious link between the deaths has been established, though two of the men were related and two lived on the same estate in Newbridge. The most recent death was of a young father a week ago.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/five-suicides-in-newbridge-co-kildare-raise-fears-of-cluster-1.2589867

mud

panda100 wrote: »

No actually its not. We have a moderate suicide rate with comparison with the rest of the world. The only difference is that the local Limerick media and people appear to be obsessed with suicide so is highlighted much more than it should be.

I don't think it's helpful to compare Ireland with the rest of the world. We are a very small fish in that particular pond.

Limerick has a very high if not the highest rate of suicide in Ireland. I don't understand your point when you say that suicide is highlighted more than it should be? Do you want to continue covering it up or what's the story?

freshpopcorn

Ragnar Lothbrok wrote: »

I don't think it's correct to say these deaths are "covered up" by calling them death by misadventure. If there's no suicide note, or other clear indication that the person definitely intended to take their own life, the coroner has to rule it as death by misadventure, even if everyone suspects it was in fact a suicide.

What I was referring to was what this poster experienced.

bernard0368 wrote: »

The other was the coroner, who offered us a couple of options on wording that could be used on the death cert. It did make me think at the time that there could be a lot of unrecorded suicides in this country.

StewartGriffin

Are there any scientific studies done on how to tackle the problem though? Any measures taken in places like Norway, Australia or Russia to tackle their high suicide rates and did they actually work? I'm a little unsure how events like Cycle Against Suicide actually help the problem.

wokingvoter

The other was the coroner, who offered us a couple of options on wording that could be used on the death cert. It did make me think at the time that there could be a lot of unrecorded suicides in this country

^^^^^^^
This
Lots and lots of family members and loved ones, for many different reasons, just don't want a death Cert that says suicide.
They want to believe and they want others to pretend to believe, that Conor didn't know their was another bullet in the chamber or that Mary slipped and fell of the pier when she was s bit light headed
For some people acknowledging the fact that your loved one ended their own life means acknowledging that the loved one wasn't loved enough, by you, or at least didn't feel loved enough.
And that's intolerable.
Maybe down the road in a few years they will face it just not yet.
And still yes there is some shame. The whispers. The speculation. The blame game.
But we mustn't force the ones left behind to acknowledge what is blatantly obvious to the "spectators" .
I don't see how having to "admi" "My son killed himself " is going to prevent others from taking that final step.

edbrez

StewartGriffin wrote: »

Are there any scientific studies done on how to tackle the problem though?

Said this on another thread but got a warning: depressed people should be taking vitamin D pills daily. Here's another article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201301/suicide-and-vitamin-d

edbrez

edbrez wrote: »

Said this on another thread but got a warning: depressed people should be taking vitamin D pills daily. Here's another article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201301/suicide-and-vitamin-d

Clinical depression is complex. Vitamins, healthy diet, exercise, etc. They don't work for all sufferers and often are carried out in conjunction with therapy and/or medication

catbear

Spent a few years in australia recently and was really surprised by how much they cover up talking about suicide there. Even stories where it was so obviously a suicide of someone of note the whole thing would be presented as tragic circumstances without ever mentioning suicide.

My local train would be interrupted by a jumper every now and again and the transport staff would have no problem telling you the train will be moving again once they clean up the mess but no where would the incident be covered by the media. The whole avoidance of mentioning the word suicide just seem to make it harder to deal with it there.

whatismyname

wokingvoter wrote: »

For some people acknowledging the fact that your loved one ended their own life means acknowledging that the loved one wasn't loved enough, by you, or at least didn't feel loved enough.
And that's intolerable.
.

As someone who works in suicide prevention, and who has also been long-term suicidal, attempted suicide on a number of occasions, and known and supported many people when suicidal... I've always been so confused by why people think the above.

E.g. people often so keen to reassure the suicidal person of how much they are loved. Or alternatively after someone has taken their own life people saying things like 'if only they knew how much they were loved' etc.

I am not sure where the belief comes from that people kill themselves because they believe they aren't loved.

A key message in suicide prevention training - and one of the most fundamental points in better understanding suicide - is that in almost all cases where a person is suicidal they don't actually want to die, they just want to stop the pain and difficulties they are experiencing.

I'm really glad that in the suicide prevention training that I've trained to deliver there is nothing about a person who takes their own life believing they weren't loved, as it's a message that is so misleading and generalised that I would be very uncomfortable spreading it.

I've never come across any evidence or even suggestion professionally anywhere that people who kill themselves weren't loved enough, or believe they weren't loved enough.

Most people when suicidal are in a hell of a lot of emotional pain, and that could be for any reason - believing they aren't loved being just one potential of perhaps thousands.

Yes, of course, some people could believe they aren't loved, but it breaks my heart that anyone could have a belief that because someone took their own life this automatically means they weren't loved, or believing they weren't, and even more so to think of anyone spreading this idea.

I'm not disagreeing that that could be the case for some, but it is certainly not automatically the case.

In the depression and anxiety support groups, as one example, I have run I have supported many people when suicidal and I don't remember once anyone saying it was because they weren't loved - the reason was pretty much always that living was too unbearable for whatever reason they were struggling most. In most cases I remember the person feeling struggling a lot with knowing what it would put those who love them through.

For me, when suicidal, I never doubted that I was loved. There was so much evidence of this, and if anything I was acutely aware of it, and it was very hard to deal with. Feeling unable to bear another day living with what was in my head, but also unable to deal with what my death would put people through. The last couple of times I came closest to suicide I put a lot of effort into making it 'easier' for people afterwards, and making sure people knew how much I loved them, and how I hadn't wanted to put them through it.

I'm in a really good place right now, better in a long time, and am so confident that I won't end up taking my own life - but that's something I can't ever know for sure. If that were ever to happen I could list several people in my life who 'get it' and will understand what lay behind it, yet I could just as easily tell you those who won't, especially my family, and I hate that they would think for one second that I thought I wasn't loved, when that wouldn't even remotely be what it was about. But unfortunately that mistaken belief is out there within society, another massive misconception, and it's horrible.

To anyone who's reading this who has lost someone to suicide (unfortunately probably quite a few), unless the person left something to tell you that they believed that they weren't loved, there's probably no way we can know this for sure. There's a lot of generalisations out there that are that are so commonly believed, but your loved one was unique and their death has its own individual story and circumstances, and ultimately can't have any generalisations applied to it.

Apologies, I hadn't intended to type so much...

Legal Action

The world today feels increasingly hostile to males, there's a real nasty element pushed by some feminists. I have no doubt that's a contributing factor.

Arghus

Legal Action wrote: »

The world today feels increasingly hostile to males, there's a real nasty element pushed by some feminists. I have no doubt that's a contributing factor.

I think your point is largely nonsense.

Minderbinder

Is there any evidence that things like 'darkness into light' actually do anything to prevent suicide? I just think if someone is going to commit suicide they will do it and there's little any one can do to stop it. The people who talk to someone are those who wouldn't go through with it anyway. I just don't see how society can tackle this problem as a whole when it is a completely personal, private thing.

galah

Someone very close to us attempted suicide a few years ago. The scary part - he suffered from depression, recognised that, and was put on anti-depressant medication. Which, unfortunately, had the opposite effect (carried a warning of increased suicidal thoughts as a side-effect even), which led him to attempt suicide.

Part of the problem is the crappy medical aftercare you receive in this country (for anything, not just mental health). If he'd been checked regularly, I would presume someone may have picked up on the fact that the medication didnt have the desired effect. But he just got a prescription and off he went. And didn't quite expect the medication to not work as desired.

There's quite a high number of suicides around here, and a lot seem to end up in the Corrib - hardly a day goes by when you don't hear the rescue helicopter

eviltwin

Legal Action wrote: »

The world today feels increasingly hostile to males, there's a real nasty element pushed by some feminists. I have no doubt that's a contributing factor.

So it's all the feminists fault.....right.

I think the abysmal mental health system here is partly to blame. Long waiting lists, lack of services all contribute. A close friend of mine took her own life, she'd been crying out for help, had attempted suicide before but still couldn't get the help she needed. I think if she had received the help she needed early on she might have been okay.

Legal Action

Arghus wrote: »

I think your point is largely nonsense.

Of course you do. Being constantly lectured about how privileged you are, mandatory consent classes, because all men are rapist scumbags, masculinity is toxic and must be changed...basically being told you are the cause of everything that's wrong with the world. I have no doubt this stuff messes with the heads of young lads.

Legal Action

eviltwin wrote: »

So it's all the feminists fault.....right.

I think the abysmal mental health system here is partly to blame. Long waiting lists, lack of services all contribute. A close friend of mine took her own life, she'd been crying out for help, had attempted suicide before but still couldn't get the help she needed. I think if she had received the help she needed early on she might have been okay.

Of course right, the toxic anti-male sentiment pushed by some feminists couldn't possibly have a negative effect on young men. No of course not.

Arghus

Legal Action wrote: »

Of course you do. Being constantly lectured about how privileged you are, mandatory consent classes, because all men are rapist scumbags, masculinity is toxic and must be changed...basically being told you are the cause of everything that's wrong with the world. I have no doubt this stuff messes with the heads of young lads.

I've known three people - all young men - who've commited suicide. All of them had problems opening up and discussing how they felt, coupled with that they would have been fond of heavily indulging in binge drinking. I don't feel that I can place any blame on any so called feminist agenda. Being honest, I'd place more blame in outmoded ways of understanding masculinity - young men feeling isolated and estranged, because it's still seen as slightly "weak" to talk about your innermost feelings, at least without the massive emotional crutch of alcohol.

I'm a man, I've never come across this "all men are rapist scumbags" mentality that you talk about.

Dirty Dingus McGee

PMBC wrote: »

I agree; it is in a lot of cases particularly booze which is chemically a depressant.

I find it offensive the poster describing the midlands as 'a dismal kip' particularly kip since it means brothel. Towns like Edenderry, Portarlington, Monasterevin do have their visual and social problems but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Once a poet talked about the beauty in a rose and another of the beauty of small things. We all need to be educated to see that beauty, at least occasionally.

In fairness those 3 town are extremely depressing.I go through Edenderry each day and I used to work in it and the life has been sucked out of the town since Tesco was moved out of the town centre. The people in the council who allowed a situation where there are a whole load of empty lots in the middle of Edenderry should be ashamed of themselves.