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Bring back the death sentence

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    #32
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,109 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

    You really are missing the point.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #33
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

    and so were the Six and Four at the time in the eyes of the court, remember?

    If a sanction is brought into play you can't assume it'll only be applied to those you believe deserve it and that the judicial system will get it right every time. There are just too many examples to show otherwise for anyone with a thinking brain (rather than a raging heart) to want to see Capital punishment returned.


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    #34
    chillin117
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 736 ✭✭✭chillin117


    Suffice to say he will not be going to any Family Dinners in the near future.
    Mam,Dad,This is Derek.......


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    #35
    Ogogo
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Ogogo


    This does appear to be a very cruel, sick and disgusting person however, I do not agree with the death penalty, far better to take their liberty and punish them over the longer run. Also as pointed out above history has numerous examples of "unquestionably" guilty people who were found after the fact to be innocent.

    On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?


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    #36
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Ogogo wrote: »
    On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

    This is something that's always confused me too. Anyone know what that's all about? I'm pretty sure my mental image of eight cages nestled inside each other, Russian doll style, with the criminal in the innermost one is probably incorrect!


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    #37
    Mr McBoatface
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,579 ✭✭✭Mr McBoatface


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    and so were the Six and Four at the time in the eyes of the court, remember?

    If a sanction is brought into play you can't assume it'll only be applied to those you believe deserve it and that the judicial system will get it right every time. There are just too many examples to show otherwise for anyone with a thinking brain (rather than a raging heart) to want to see Capital punishment returned.

    This man plead guilty had previous form, there was voice recording of treats made against one victim with the destressed voice of the second victim captured in the background, he was then caught red handed at the scene with a knife in hand...... The raging heart ain't an issue. In such cases the death sentence should be available.


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    #38
    chillin117
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 736 ✭✭✭chillin117


    The more High Profile the arrest/trial are the longer they seem to serve. Malcolm Mc Arthur served 30 years. Graham Dwyer will/should do 20 years+


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    #39
    droidman123
    Registered Users Posts: 5,452 ✭✭✭droidman123


    The idiots that let him out on bail in the first place should be given the death sentence as well as the toerag who perpetrated those crimes


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    #40
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    chillin117 wrote: »
    The more High Profile the arrest/trial are the longer they seem to serve. Malcolm Mc Arthur served 30 years. Graham Dwyer will/should do 20 years+


    Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

    and from which we got the term GUBU (ask your dad)


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    #41
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,585 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    I'm against the death penalty in all cases, including this one.

    No death penalty in EU in any case, and its abolition is not going to change any time soon.


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    #42
    chillin117
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 736 ✭✭✭chillin117


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

    and from which we got the term GUBU (ask your dad)
    Unfortunatly I am old enough to remember it :(


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    #43
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,525 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    Birneybau wrote: »
    Why not a rape sentence?

    Death by bum?


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    #44
    Chain Smoker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Chain Smoker


    I don't even understand the cathartic release that people get from typing up fantasy ways of torturing c*nts in threads like this, let alone the actual actions of the c*nts. Does it let you think you're a better person because you're able to express blind rage?


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    #45
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Malcolm McArthur made the mistake of involving the unwitting Attorney General - he was always going to pay for that!

    True, I suspect the embarrassment caused to an important person probably played a far greater role in the number of years he served than the suffering of poor Bridie Gargan. That's Ireland for you, eh?


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    #46
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Ogogo wrote: »
    This does appear to be a very cruel, sick and disgusting person however, I do not agree with the death penalty, far better to take their liberty and punish them over the longer run. Also as pointed out above history has numerous examples of "unquestionably" guilty people who were found after the fact to be innocent.

    On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?
    Samaris wrote: »
    This is something that's always confused me too. Anyone know what that's all about? I'm pretty sure my mental image of eight cages nestled inside each other, Russian doll style, with the criminal in the innermost one is probably incorrect!

    The fact that this piece of sh1t was given 8 life sentences is something that will have to be taken into consideration by the review board which will decide whether to release him or not. I give top marks to the judge for handing down a suitable sentence.

    In Ireland, a life sentence doesn't mean that a prisoner is automatically released after 25 years are up. Shaw & Evans (murdered and raped 2 women) have been in prison since 1976. Malcolm McArthur served 30+ years for a single life sentence.


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    #47
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Ogogo wrote: »
    On a side note - the part that I dont understand is the eight life sentences running at the same time, how does that discourage any would be criminal from committing 20 crimes instead of 10? Should they not run consecutively?

    How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    jobyrne30 wrote: »
    After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

    So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

    http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

    "A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

    Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

    He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

    The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

    At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

    OK so, the first time that they get it wrong will you sacrifice your life to balance it out?


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    #49
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?

    In the US life sentences can be imposed consecutively I think - leads to sentences of several hundred years. Basically a guarantee that the criminal will never be free rather than a literal sentence of several lifetimes.

    Here's one example
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader#Legal_proceedings
    He was sentenced to serve 10 consecutive life sentences, one life sentence per murder victim. In total, Rader would be eligible for parole after 175 years of imprisonment, in 2180

    Obviously he'll be dead long before 2180 but the sentence ensures that he hasn't a hope in hell of ever being released.


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    #50
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    How do you think 8 consecutive life sentences would work, reanimation, keeping the body in custody for 8 lives?

    I'm sure the poster means that life would mean life, no parole..like in America where you hear of sentences of 100+ years
    Soft sentancing, 50-100 previous convictions, acceptance of 'I didn't mean to kill him when I jumped on his face' defence crap needs to end
    Pathetic 9 years for raping his daughter was not enough and led to this.


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    #51
    mzungu
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,308 Mod ✭✭✭✭mzungu


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

    So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

    I meant the time spent in jail.


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    #52
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Custardpi wrote: »
    In the US life sentences can be imposed consecutively I think - leads to sentences of several hundred years. Basically a guarantee that the criminal will never be free rather than a literal sentence of several lifetimes.

    Here's one example
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader#Legal_proceedings



    Obviously he'll be dead long before 2180 but the sentence ensures that he hasn't a hope in hell of ever being released.

    thats the USA the Irish system does not work that way, in any event if it was imposed here it could be in breach of the ECHR as no availability of review has been struck down.


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    #53
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    thats the USA the Irish system does not work that way, in any event if it was imposed here it could be in breach of the ECHR as no availability of review has been struck down.

    I'm well aware that it's a different country, just showing how consecutive sentences would work in theory if available. Obviously legal reality is different here.


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    #54
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    mzungu wrote: »
    I meant the time spent in jail.

    That is up to the Minister of Justice. I think any minister releasing this guy would face a lot of difficulty.


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    #55
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    Quote: Pro Hoc Vice
    How can you give a longer sentence than life,

    Judges can and do give longer sentances than life unfortunately not in ireland though

    So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

    They are the answer to every victim who suffers at the hands of scumbags with 50/100 previous convictions.
    If this guy had got life for raping his daughter he wouldn't have been out to do what he did.


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    #56
    NiallBoo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,504 ✭✭✭NiallBoo


    This is the silliest idea I've seen here in a while.


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    #57
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    Lackey wrote: »
    Quote: Pro Hoc Vice
    How can you give a longer sentence than life,

    Judges can and do give longer sentances than life unfortunately not in ireland though

    So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

    They are the answer to every victim who suffers at the hands of scumbags with 50/100 previous convictions.
    If this guy had got life for raping his daughter he wouldn't have been out to do what he did.

    If he had got life previously he could have been released by the Minister for Justice. Giving 8 consecutive life sentences could mean he is released in 20 or 30 years and will be a matter for the then minister for justice.


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    #58
    12Phase
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,040 ✭✭✭12Phase


    The issue, as I see it anyway, is inadequate risk assessment on bail and early release.

    You've got to take public safety into account ahead of anything else.

    A small % of extremely violent criminals need to be kept where they can't cause further damage.

    I don't think the death sentence is ever appropriate. It's got too much risk of miscarriage of justice, it doesn't have any deterrent effect considering that violent crime and murder rates are far higher in the US than in Europe. You've also got a situation where it may not even be a threat for someone who is unhinged and sees it as an easy exit or even martyrdom. It also debases society and the state, by bringing us down to the level of a killer.

    We have to start making much better risk assessments though.

    I'd actually prefer to see far more focus on non-custodial sentences for non-violent, non-dangerous crimes and definitely not being used for things like non payment of fines, but much harsher custodial sentences for those who commit violent crimes.


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    #59
    Arsemageddon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Arsemageddon


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    That is up to the Minister of Justice. I think any minister releasing this guy would face a lot of difficulty.

    We have an amazingly retarded parole system with a parole board stuffed with untrained party hacks who frequently ignore the expert advice of Prison Service staff. For the most part the Minister for Justice just rubber stamps their decisions.
    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/analysis-informal-system-decides-fate-of-those-serving-life-1.2097526

    By the by, I don't think there would be any trouble for decision makers if this particular rapist was released, his anonymity means very few people actually know who he is.


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    #60
    Lackey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Lackey


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    If he had got life previously he could have been released by the Minister for Justice. Giving 8 consecutive life sentences could mean he is released in 20 or 30 years and will be a matter for the then minister for justice.

    True, can't see any minister wanting to be seen to release a kiddie rapist though.


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    #61
    Custardpi
    Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭Custardpi


    Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »
    That is up to the Minister of Justice. I think any minister releasing this guy would face a lot of difficulty.

    Much less "difficulty" than that faced by his victims though, eh? Sadly in 20 years time the news cycle may not pay too much attention to the Waterford man in question (who will probably still be anonymous) & the story of his potential release will be overshadowed by some 2036 celebrity getting a new haircut or whatever. This guy will thus be quietly released with only a handful of people being aware of it. But sure that'll be a matter for the Minister For Justice, so nothing for the little people to worry about.


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