Bring back the death sentence

Mr McBoatface

After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

"A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

Birneybau

Why not a rape sentence?

Timberrrrrrrr

string the cnut up and sell tickets to watch it.

tritium

I generally detest torture porn typed from the safety of ones keyboard, so no, let's not bring back the death sentence, or as one poster suggested a rape sentence.

Besides, leaving them to rot in prison feels somehow a better option all round

I'm in favour of the death penalty...but only in certain murder cases.

A life sentence seems appropriate here.

Esel

Life without parole?

The_Valeyard

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

tritium

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

There's a persistent myth that life sentence means release after a handful of years. I'll try to dig out the stats later but I recall a recent report that an average life sentence was about 17 years, with a small number of lifers serving in excess of 30 years

Drumpot

I've wondered about this.

Death sentence would be a good tool for people who cannot or will not be rehabilitated and will most definitely hurt, kill or rape people forever.

Is it more civil to lock a person up in a cage for life? Is it , on the flip-side, right to keep alive the kind of people who will hurt or kill again?

Sort of like a pre crime initiative. I accept that it's not without its flaws and it's not necessarily a deterrent but I don't think some people will be deterred and as such I don't see why they should be allowed to live at the expense of future victims.

Given some of the crimes comitted when out on bail, I suppose it's probably more important to fix our current flawed system.... A death penalty would certainly shake things up!

Custardpi

tritium wrote: »

There's a persistent myth that life sentence means release after a handful of years. I'll try to dig out the stats later but I recall a recent report that an average life sentence was about 17 years, with a small number of lifers serving in excess of 30 years

There are many who believe it should be far more. I'd be completely opposed to the death penalty in all circumstances as I think it's barbaric but if a friend or family member was murdered I'd want the perpetuator to serve an absolute minimum of 30 years before the authorities even considered any kind of a release for them. It would be interesting to know how the Irish actual time served figures for murder compared with those of other countries around the world.

Lurkio

jobyrne30 wrote: »

After reading the details on RTE today of the following case I've once again come to the conculsion that there are some people for whom the death sentence is a totally justifiable punishment.

So what does the folks of after hours think?What sentence would you like to see handed down in this and similar cases ?

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0503/785832-rape-life-in-prison/

"A 48-year-old man who raped his girlfriend and her 60-year-old mother has been sentenced to life in prison after a judge said it was the worst case he had ever come across.

Mr Justice Patrick McCarthy said the extremely violent attacks meant it was one of those exceptional cases where a life sentence was appropriate despite a guilty plea.

He imposed eight life sentences to be served at the same time for a number of rape and related offences.

The Waterford man, who cannot be named to protect the identity of his victims, had previously served a nine-year sentence for raping his own daughter from a previous relationship.

At the time of these offences, which took place over three days at three locations in Dublin in July 2015, he was on bail for kidnapping and seriously assaulting the same girlfriend the previous year."

Campaigning for a change in the law to make it easier to hand out life sentences for rape would be far more likely to succeed.

JoseWasntReady

I used to be for the death penalty in certain cases too but recently read up on the death penalty in the state of Texas. Cameron Todd Willingham was executed in 2004 for deliberately starting a fire that killed his three young children. He was a bit of an idiot, violent towards his wife and the "experts" were convinced he started the fire. Open and shut case, right? I'd have been calling for him to be strung up too.

In 2009, through advances in technology, it was found that the fire was likely accidental. So he lost his three children, his wife(she didn't believe he was guilty) left him after a year in prison, spent twelve years on death row and he was eventually executed.

valoren

He raped his own daughter, got sentenced, served his time. 9 years. Long time to spend thinking about what you did.
In all likelihood he was afforded substantial rehabilitative counselling.
He was then released and subsequently raped his girlfriend and her mother.

Rehabilitated me hole. Some are beyond help and it's people like that who drive the legitimate question of essentially cutting the state's and society's losses.

Drumpot

tritium wrote: »

I generally detest torture porn typed from the safety of ones keyboard, so no, let's not bring back the death sentence, or as one poster suggested a rape sentence.

Besides, leaving them to rot in prison feels somehow a better option all round

A death sentence is somewhat barbaric but locking somebody in a cage for a lifetime so they can "rot" is in some way more civil? Sounds more sadistic to be honest.

JoseWasntReady

Drumpot wrote: »

A death sentence is somewhat barbaric but locking somebody in a cage for a lifetime so they can "rot" is in some way more civil? Sounds more sadistic to be honest.

If they're still considered a threat to the public and have shown no sign of rehabilitation then they shouldn't be released.

Harry Palmr

Just make life an actual life sentence. I'd have thought people would think about the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six before clamouring for state executions.

mzungu

Longer sentences is the answer here. Keep people like that locked up until they are too old to harm anybody.

Custardpi

True, you can to a limited extent put right wasted years with compensation. You can't bring an executed person back to life.

Panthro

The room should be 4ft squared. Nothing but a pot in the corner to pish into.
And he should be made to work, hard. 12 hr days, walking the roads filling pot holes and collecting rubbish.
And then die.

Drumpot

JoseWasntReady wrote: »

If they're still considered a threat to the public and have shown no sign of rehabilitation then they shouldn't be released.

But how is that a better solution? Why do you feel locking somebody up for the rest of their lives is in anyway better then putting them and others out of misery quickly?

Pro Hoc Vice

mzungu wrote: »

Longer sentences is the answer here. Keep people like that locked up until they are too old to harm anybody.

How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

So I ask the question again how can longer sentences than life be the answer.

Arsemageddon

The_Valeyard wrote: »

No need to lower ourselves to their level.


Just make life = life. No 12 / 14 years. Life meaning you will never be released, you will never have freedom again, you will die behind those walls.

That was true in 2002, but is not the case now. The average length of time served for a life sentence was 22 years in 2012.

The average duration of a life sentence has changed significantly in the last 30 years.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/sharp-rise-in-number-of-prisoners-serving-life-terms-1.2097453

Here's an academic paper on which the above is based-
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2550388

Fr_Dougal

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Just make life an actual life sentence. I'd have thought people would think about the Guildford Four and Birmingham Six before clamouring for state executions.

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

Custardpi

Pro Hoc Vice wrote: »

How can you give a longer sentence than life, the judge imposed 8 life sentences. In Ireland the judge can not release the person the release of person with a life sentence is a matter for the executive.

I suspect he/she is referring to the actual time served rather than official sentence imposed by the judge. There is an argument for the actual time behind bars of murderers & rapists in this category to be longer than they currently are prior being considered for release by the Minister For Justice.

Custardpi

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

So if we bring back hanging we make a rule only to impose it on guilty people? Can't see that ever going wrong.

Samaris

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

I suspect that was more in a general sense. It's not like the death penalty would be brought back for this one case (which does seem pretty cut and dried) and then stuck in a box again. Thus, future cases, potential future error, etcetera.

eviltwin

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You think he's innocent?!

Wow...

I think he's referring to cases where innocent people have been jailed for crimes they didn't commit not this case.

I'd have a huge problem with the death penalty seeing as the legal system tends to be harder on certain groups of people, justice is meant to be blind but it's not.

Pro Hoc Vice

Custardpi wrote: »

I suspect he/she is referring to the actual time served rather than official sentence imposed by the judge. There is an argument for the actual time behind bars of murderers & rapists in this category to be longer than they currently are prior being considered for release by the Minister For Justice.

That's a different issue, sentence is sentence release is a non judicial decision. There may an argument for min time served orders or giving the release decision to a judge. But a statement sentences should be longer when talking about a 8 life sentence.

Fr_Dougal

Custardpi wrote: »

So if we bring back hanging we make a rule only to impose it on guilty people? Can't see that ever going wrong.

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

Mr McBoatface

valoren wrote: »

He raped his own daughter, got sentenced, served his time. 9 years. Long time to spend thinking about what you did.
In all likelihood he was afforded substantial rehabilitative counselling.
He was then released and subsequently raped his girlfriend and her mother.

Rehabilitated me hole. Some are beyond help and it's people like that who drive the legitimate question of essentially cutting the state's and society's losses.

This is exactly my sentiment on the matter. Those of you who haven't read the full article really should. There is absolutely no question of the man's guilt on this , the Garda found the man at the home of the mother who he had bound and raped.

The extent of the mental trauma an event like this can have just can't be measured. The damage done by this man on multiple occasions and the cost to the victims and the state is huge. He doesn't deserve to breath, he is beyond rehabilitation

Custardpi

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Comparing the Birmingham 6 or Guilford 4 to this animal is completely out of line. He is unquestionably guilty.

I don't doubt this particular individual's guilt. However, as others have stated, clamouring for the death penalty to be reintroduced in response will almost certainly lead to it being imposed in cases which are not quite as certain. Thus the reference to the Guildford 4, who many at the time would have been delighted to see executed. I'm no bleeding heart & certainly wish the state to be tougher on crime, particularly violent & sexual crime than it is, but calling for prisoners to be killed is a step too far.