NARGC

berettaman

MrTom1 wrote: »

Anyone know when independent report is out ?

I believe it will finalised by the end of September/ early October.

cavan shooter

id love to be able to sit down with some of some of these lads and ask...

...What the **** is going on? whats your problem? is there an argument that they genuinely think they were acting in the best interests of their counties...Im assuming things have quietened down a bit so is it not time for everyone to sit down with the "Disadent 5" (love that, reminds me of "They havent gone away ye know") and these lads have a good barny minus the solicitors....clear the air.

Out of interest, Is it true that there was a confidence vote in the executive and chairman and out of 55 delegates with a vote 47 backed the current lads. Does that not say "Oh Oh we might be reading this wrong.....back pedal "

I actually am genuinely worried about whats happening I was Shooting clays over the weekend and ****e talk says that NARGC might be missing counties or clubs next year. I hope its crap talk, because there is nothing to be gained from kicking the counties out or big egos walking away. Im sure a lot of lads in the counties still know nothing... but I can understand that some peoples positions i.e the ones pushing it could be seen as untenable. Heres hoping sense will prevail, sure we al have Birr to look forward to.

Backbarrel

yourvote wrote: »

i heard that a straight forward general question on finances was asked and no reply given. the state of the finances have nothing to do with the investigtion ??.



if the rules say that 14 days notice is to be given but only 11 were then i dont get why the 5 counties are being questioned for pointing that out .

Just to fill you in on this part about the finances. The question about finances was asked but the Association was without a Treasurer since January. The outgoing one was acting in a caretaking capacity but there would be no one obliged to stand up and answer questions on finance in the absence of a treasurer.

Lets be fair here. We have a Chartered Accountant elected as Treasurer on the day. He wants to do the job. Let him at it.
I would say that you will get plenty of info in the months ahead..and that is what we want isn't it?

In relation to the 5 counties "pointing that out"...are you serious? They didn't point it out, a very heavy handed legal letter arrived threatening
the Chairman if he proceeded with the meeting.

If someone picked up the call and pointed it out there would be no problem, the Executive are not ogres, they are very approachable shooting men.

If you don't mind me saying there is a distortion of reality going on here.

What did you think of the presentation shown on the day?

Backbarrel

cavan shooter wrote: »

Out of interest, Is it true that there was a confidence vote in the executive and chairman and out of 55 delegates with a vote 47 backed the current lads. Does that not say "Oh Oh we might be reading this wrong.....back pedal "

I thought the Executive voted in that as well so there is what 12 or 13 of them. So it was closer to 47 out of 67 or something like that. Basically 10 counties voted against...still very one sided though..

cavan shooter

Backbarrel wrote:

What did you think of the presentation shown on the day?

What presentation??

yourvote

reading the transcript from the court suggests that the exec was flawed in its thinking regarding the entire cancelling of meetings.

does it strike anyone as odd that there is no report on finances because there is no treasurer yet the finance sub committee report on the bullying question.

given that it is not accepted that the individuals (reps of rgcs) are people with jobs, families and other pressures I have to say that to suggest the exec is to be excused mistakes when they are busy is ridiculous. either they are capable of running a busy organization or they are not. there is too much going on to forgive oversights due to tiredness.

when I asked a delegate he did say that the benefits of the nargc has to be weighed against massive money being spent on court cases fighting with each other. he said that the projected saving from the finance sub comm, in june, will take 10 years to repair the damage of the likely legal costs.
who really wants to be part of an assoc that will try and destroy you financially via the high court for asking for a meeting to be held.
and when the meeting is held none of the concerns that gave rise to the court cases are realized anyway!!

wirehairmax

yourvote wrote: »

reading the transcript from the court suggests that the exec was flawed in its thinking regarding the entire cancelling of meetings.

does it strike anyone as odd that there is no report on finances because there is no treasurer yet the finance sub committee report on the bullying question.

given that it is not accepted that the individuals (reps of rgcs) are people with jobs, families and other pressures I have to say that to suggest the exec is to be excused mistakes when they are busy is ridiculous. either they are capable of running a busy organization or they are not. there is too much going on to forgive oversights due to tiredness.

when I asked a delegate he did say that the benefits of the nargc has to be weighed against massive money being spent on court cases fighting with each other. he said that the projected saving from the finance sub comm, in june, will take 10 years to repair the damage of the likely legal costs.
who really wants to be part of an assoc that will try and destroy you financially via the high court for asking for a meeting to be held.
and when the meeting is held none of the concerns that gave rise to the court cases are realized anyway!!

What are you on about?

• There is nobody on the executive committee threatening anybody with financial ruin. They took an injunction,to try to prevent an EGM which they feared would impinge on a high court case in which they are the defendant and not the plaintiff, not try to sue anybody.
• Sending a solicitors letter with threats of high court actions is not an oversight, it is malicious and vindictive, missing a date for a meeting notice is an oversight.
• The costs being racked up at the moment are from defending the association from High court action being brought by the National Director.
• The association is not fighting with itself. The five counties(individuals) seem to have gone on a misguided solo-run(guided by who?) This was shown up as a complete folly at the last meeting. Their strings were either being pulled by someone in the background or they were duped into the course of action they took as they were made to look very foolish and didnt seem to realise the extent of what the executive are dealing with.
• As explained above, there has not been an appointed treasurer in place in recent times. There is now a very capable man in position and he is in the process of unravelling the financial position. This should make for very interesting reading when it all comes together. The finance committee have been treading water and have had their hands tied by the injunction which the national director has had imposed on them.

Backbarrel

Well lads. Who is heading to Birr at the weekend ?
I am heading down Saturday and I will stick my head in the NARGC tent to see who is around..

MrTom1

yourvote wrote: »

reading the transcript from the court suggests that the exec was flawed in its thinking regarding the entire cancelling of meetings.

does it strike anyone as odd that there is no report on finances because there is no treasurer yet the finance sub committee report on the bullying question.

given that it is not accepted that the individuals (reps of rgcs) are people with jobs, families and other pressures I have to say that to suggest the exec is to be excused mistakes when they are busy is ridiculous. either they are capable of running a busy organization or they are not. there is too much going on to forgive oversights due to tiredness.

when I asked a delegate he did say that the benefits of the nargc has to be weighed against massive money being spent on court cases fighting with each other. he said that the projected saving from the finance sub comm, in june, will take 10 years to repair the damage of the likely legal costs.
who really wants to be part of an assoc that will try and destroy you financially via the high court for asking for a meeting to be held.
and when the meeting is held none of the concerns that gave rise to the court cases are realized anyway!!

Can you put up a link for transcript ?? Would like to read

cavan shooter

Backbarrel wrote: »

Well lads. Who is heading to Birr at the weekend ?
I am heading down Saturday and I will stick my head in the NARGC tent to see who is around..

Going on Saturday looks like bringing the kids..looking forward to it. Its one of those things that if you don't go you'd be wondering what your missing.

In fairness there is always a lot happening in "The NARGC tent". Got great advise last year from Seamus Heraty the vermin Officer on making tunnel traps. The duck shooting is always a bit of craic for the kids. I must say that from around midday The display of birds outside is fabulous and even the pheasants in the cages aren't too bad.

yourvote

wirehairmax am just as curious about your view of proceedings particularly the last point about the finance comm treading water cause of the ND injunction.



[*]There is nobody on the executive committee threatening anybody with financial ruin. They took an injunction,to try to prevent an EGM which they feared would impinge on a high court case in which they are the defendant and not the plaintiff, not try to sue anybody.

1- the exec took 7 members to court. the 7 were threatened that they would have to pay the costs by the exec solicitors. please explain why that is ok ? and how you can 100% say that it does not threaten financial ruin on the 7 individuals?



[*]Sending a solicitors letter with threats of high court actions is not an oversight, it is malicious and vindictive, missing a date for a meeting notice is an oversight.

2- sending out a meeting notice that is wrong is poor management. the exec comm solicitors sent out letters that set out what happens about costs in injunctions. is it ok when the exec do it, unless your saying that the exec was malicious and vindictive too?



[*]The costs being racked up at the moment are from defending the association from High court action being brought by the National Director.

3- and why is the ND taking an action? why is the ND seemingly succeeding in having an injunction made permanent? why does the injunction have to prohibit false statements and specifically say any process that is in keeping with natural justice and irish law is fine?



[*]The association is not fighting with itself. The five counties(individuals) seem to have gone on a misguided solo-run(guided by who?) This was shown up as a complete folly at the last meeting. Their strings were either being pulled by someone in the background or they were duped into the course of action they took as they were made to look very foolish and didnt seem to realise the extent of what the executive are dealing with.

4-when you post something calling some members malicious, vindictive, misguided, duped and foolish I don't see how you can suggest the association is not fighting. perhaps if the exec actually answered questions rather than taking out injunctions or just not answering questions there would be less name calling. there are 2 sides at the moment . that equals a row.


[*]As explained above, there has not been an appointed treasurer in place in recent times. There is now a very capable man in position and he is in the process of unravelling the financial position. This should make for very interesting reading when it all comes together. The finance committee have been treading water and have had their hands tied by the injunction which the national director has had imposed on them.


5-the suggestion that no one can account for finances for the better part of 6 months is very poor management of the association. I don't understand what you mean by unraveling the finances. accounts have been presented at each agm and accepted. is someone saying that something has happened since the last agm that the finances now need to be unraveled. no one is suggesting that the new treasurer is not capable.

the document on the nargc website about the injunction makes no reference to financial matters. it says that any investigation that is fair and legal and doesn't lead to false statements is allowed. can you explain why the finance committee is treading water given that they are being fair, following the law and not making any false statements???



the more this thread goes on the more I go towards the side of the 5 rgc's.

Vegeta

yourvote wrote: »

the more this thread goes on the more I go towards the side of the 5 rgc's.

I don't think that was ever in doubt.

berettaman

yourvote wrote: »

wirehairmax am just as curious about your view of proceedings particularly the last point about the finance comm treading water cause of the ND injunction.


[*]There is nobody on the executive committee threatening anybody with financial ruin. They took an injunction,to try to prevent an EGM which they feared would impinge on a high court case in which they are the defendant and not the plaintiff, not try to sue anybody.

1- the exec took 7 members to court. the 7 were threatened that they would have to pay the costs by the exec solicitors. please explain why that is ok ? and how you can 100% say that it does not threaten financial ruin on the 7 individuals?


[*]Sending a solicitors letter with threats of high court actions is not an oversight, it is malicious and vindictive, missing a date for a meeting notice is an oversight.

2- sending out a meeting notice that is wrong is poor management. the exec comm solicitors sent out letters that set out what happens about costs in injunctions. is it ok when the exec do it, unless your saying that the exec was malicious and vindictive too?


[*]The costs being racked up at the moment are from defending the association from High court action being brought by the National Director.

3- and why is the ND taking an action? why is the ND seemingly succeeding in having an injunction made permanent? why does the injunction have to prohibit false statements and specifically say any process that is in keeping with natural justice and irish law is fine?


[*]The association is not fighting with itself. The five counties(individuals) seem to have gone on a misguided solo-run(guided by who?) This was shown up as a complete folly at the last meeting. Their strings were either being pulled by someone in the background or they were duped into the course of action they took as they were made to look very foolish and didnt seem to realise the extent of what the executive are dealing with.

4-when you post something calling some members malicious, vindictive, misguided, duped and foolish I don't see how you can suggest the association is not fighting. perhaps if the exec actually answered questions rather than taking out injunctions or just not answering questions there would be less name calling. there are 2 sides at the moment . that equals a row.

[*]As explained above, there has not been an appointed treasurer in place in recent times. There is now a very capable man in position and he is in the process of unravelling the financial position. This should make for very interesting reading when it all comes together. The finance committee have been treading water and have had their hands tied by the injunction which the national director has had imposed on them.


5-the suggestion that no one can account for finances for the better part of 6 months is very poor management of the association. I don't understand what you mean by unraveling the finances. accounts have been presented at each agm and accepted. is someone saying that something has happened since the last agm that the finances now need to be unraveled. no one is suggesting that the new treasurer is not capable.

the document on the nargc website about the injunction makes no reference to financial matters. it says that any investigation that is fair and legal and doesn't lead to false statements is allowed. can you explain why the finance committee is treading water given that they are being fair, following the law and not making any false statements???



the more this thread goes on the more I go towards the side of the 5 rgc's.

Were you at the same meeting I was?

Even from the back of the room it was obvious that the 5 counties were trying to argue for an agenda that was alien to them. Who wrote it given that they couldn't even debate it properly?

Sparks

yourvote wrote: »

why does the injunction have to prohibit false statements and specifically say any process that is in keeping with natural justice and irish law is fine?

In most cases where an injunction is sought under Irish law, the plaintiff specifies the terms of the injunction they are seeking and the courts grant or deny the injunction in whole or in part; they don't rewrite the terms. So you would have to direct the question to the plaintiff, rather than assuming that you could make inferences about the defendant based on the terms.
Please don't do the latter, by the way.

the suggestion that no one can account for finances for the better part of 6 months is very poor management of the association.

No, it's a suggestion, made by someone who is not on the executive, as to why something might have happened.
That doesn't mean it's a correct suggestion or an incorrect one; just that you are making inferences here that are not supported by the available data.

is someone saying that something has happened since the last agm that the finances now need to be unraveled.

Let me put my moderator hat on for just a moment here, because there's a trend going on here that has us slightly concerned.

[Mod Hat On] Please do not defame people, either directly, or indirectly through inference. Please also do not encourage others to do so. Or we're just going to delete your posts on the grounds that they're grounds for people to bring suit under the Defamation Act 2009 and that's not the purpose of this site. Not to mention that it's breaking the charter in several places. [/Mod Hat Off]

can you explain why the finance committee is ...

One would presume only the finance committee could do that.
Also, while the phrasing of that question wasn't drawing inferences, it was - let us say - perilously close to making insinuations (what before 2009 would have been referred to as libel by inneundo). Please take care not to do that.

the more this thread goes on the more I go towards the side of the 5 rgc's.

That's entirely within any individual's prerogative, but please cease and desist with the walking up to the lines in the Defamation Act, because it is not in any poster's prerogative to do that in here.

berettaman

Hi Yourvote:

1- the exec took 7 members to court. the 7 were threatened that they would have to pay the costs by the exec solicitors. please explain why that is ok ? and how you can 100% say that it does not threaten financial ruin on the 7 individuals?

Were the 7 acting for themselves or on behalf of their counties? Even the guy sitting near me from Portarlington gun club did not know about his counties involvement in this. And lets be honest wasn't he slapped down in a disgusting way when he dared mention this by his fellow county men.


2- sending out a meeting notice that is wrong is poor management. the exec comm solicitors sent out letters that set out what happens about costs in injunctions. is it ok when the exec do it, unless your saying that the exec was malicious and vindictive too?

That does not make sense.


[*]The costs being racked up at the moment are from defending the association from High court action being brought by the National Director.

3- and why is the ND taking an action? why is the ND seemingly succeeding in having an injunction made permanent? why does the injunction have to prohibit false statements and specifically say any process that is in keeping with natural justice and irish law is fine?

You seem to have read some of the legal information as you seem to know more than the rest of us as these weren't mentioned at the meeting. I do know that the high court judge saw fit to allow an independent investigator to be appointed and that's telling.


[*]The association is not fighting with itself. The five counties(individuals) seem to have gone on a misguided solo-run(guided by who?) This was shown up as a complete folly at the last meeting. Their strings were either being pulled by someone in the background or they were duped into the course of action they took as they were made to look very foolish and didnt seem to realise the extent of what the executive are dealing with.

4-when you post something calling some members malicious, vindictive, misguided, duped and foolish I don't see how you can suggest the association is not fighting. perhaps if the exec actually answered questions rather than taking out injunctions or just not answering questions there would be less name calling. there are 2 sides at the moment . that equals a row.


I want to know were you at the same meeting I was? Every question was answered. What was not answered was were these 5 individuals representing these counties on a solo run or had they their counties backing..no answer to that on the day and when a lad asked he was cut down? WTF?

[*]As explained above, there has not been an appointed treasurer in place in recent times. There is now a very capable man in position and he is in the process of unravelling the financial position. This should make for very interesting reading when it all comes together. The finance committee have been treading water and have had their hands tied by the injunction which the national director has had imposed on them.


5-the suggestion that no one can account for finances for the better part of 6 months is very poor management of the association. I don't understand what you mean by unraveling the finances. accounts have been presented at each agm and accepted. is someone saying that something has happened since the last agm that the finances now need to be unraveled. no one is suggesting that the new treasurer is not capable.

As was explained at the meeting the Financial records were being maintained by the Ex Treasurer (Who did massive work for the Association over the years) in a caretaking capacity with the assistance of the Comp Fund Administrator. What was said on the day was that a Treasurer was not in situ to answer Finance related questions and it would unfair on the Comp Fund administrator to expect him to do so considering the barrage of legal bile he received in the weeks running up to this meeting.


the document on the nargc website about the injunction makes no reference to financial matters. it says that any investigation that is fair and legal and doesn't lead to false statements is allowed. can you explain why the finance committee is treading water given that they are being fair, following the law and not making any false statements???

Do you realise what you just implied? Were you at the same meeting I was? You know a lot about it you missed key details..

The Finance Committee had to thread carefully throughout the year but did massive work throughout the year..

the more this thread goes on the more I go towards the side of the 5 rgc's

No sh1t:eek::):rolleyes::D

grassroot1

The nomination forms for the NARGC AGM are to be returned by the 2nd of September. Please ensure you have your say at your RGC meeting, do not leave it to a few to decide. Whatever side you are on in the current disagreement make sure your delegated represents the mandated views of their (your) RGC.

cavan shooter

One more sleep to Birr.........

yourvote

did you read any of the mound of paperwork that was sent out before the egm....in particular the stenographers report of the judgement in respect of nargc v howard on 29th july?

your implying that I implied something does not mean anything..........

what is it you think I implied anyway?

wirehairmax

yourvote wrote: »

did you read any of the mound of paperwork that was sent out before the egm....in particular the stenographers report of the judgement in respect of nargc v howard on 29th july?

your implying that I implied something does not mean anything..........

what is it you think I implied anyway?

I dont know what your game is but youre not making sense to anyone else but yourself. Maybe youre trying to rise people and stir the pot, maybe youve some other agenda, nobody knows but yourself. But seeing as youve clearly taken sides and can only see one blinkered point of view, I for one am going to ignore you from now on. I'm not going to be caught out saying something here that could contribute to someones retirement fund.

Backbarrel

I was in Birr Saturday..Well holy sh1t there has been some change in 1 year on the NARGC tent..
It was very open and friendly and seemed very family oriented..i walked in with my two ankle biters and the little one had her face painted and was given sweets for free and the young lad had a shooting hat put on his head for free .. this is the nargc we are talking about here.. free...!!

They both are going to get stuck into the art competition and I have to say it all seemed a hell of a lot friendlier and more relaxed this year..

Some changes have been made and are long over due.. shop might need binning though..or a rethink..

New brooms eh?

cavan shooter

I am a regular attendant at this tent over the years and firstly I must say the kids were impressed. I was there Sunday and it was jammed. When you think that the kids are the future the idea of giving them hats, colouring competitions and the face painting was class..so well done on that.

The lads really where engaging on various topics including safety. Kevin Sadler and Seamus?? did mighty work and once again The Pine martin was the topic of conversation.

I think it was a more relaxed affair not as formal as previous years alot more engaging. I liked the bit on gun safety but I overheard a lad trying to join the fund, said he couldn't get into his Club not taking new members...(That **** needs to be addressed new members are the life blood of an organisation and if there is obstacles in the way of joining eventually the clubs die) also and here is a big moan.

The price off the stuff in the shop....if your a member of the fund those booklets should be FOC. You've paid for them already. All in all 7/10

homerhop

Went through it at pace. Feet burnt the minute I stepped inside

grassroot1

homerhop wrote: »

Went through it at pace. Feet burnt the minute I stepped inside

Great to see your back, maybe next year you might speak to someone in there.
Oh and make sure to send in your compensation form!!!

Come to the dark side we have cookies.

berettaman

From an NARGC point of view I have to say that the Birr game fair went well. It was great to see the members of the much maligned Executive meeting and greeting the public and working away. You could tell a lot of effort went in to this.

It was a massive change in atmosphere from previous years and hopefully this will continue.

The emphasis on the next generation was very evident and this is to be applauded. The average age in my club is about 55 so we need more and more young people getting into the sport.

It would be nice to see some kind of matching system whereby someone can say I am from such a place and he would be given the contact details of 2-3 clubs in his or her area.
There would need to be a push to help these clubs see that their future depends on new members.

Other than that it was good to see plenty of access to the Chairman and Executive for any questions that members may have.;) Reading some posts here you would expect them to have horns or something.:rolleyes:

Overall Well done and more of the same please.

berettaman

grassroot1 wrote: »

The nomination forms for the NARGC AGM are to be returned by the 2nd of September. Please ensure you have your say at your RGC meeting, do not leave it to a few to decide. Whatever side you are on in the current disagreement make sure your delegated represents the mandated views of their (your) RGC.

This is spot on. If you don't know then something then start asking questions. Nomination forms to be in by Friday I think.

Our county is meeting this week and we will decide as a group to nominate the lads that are doing the work that is necessary. We don't want sheep or yes men. We will even nominate some people that we may not agree with totally but are men enough to tell us to our face why they think we are wrong.

If your county hasn't had a meeting to discuss nominations then that means someone at RGC level is deciding for you...so ask about what is going on.

homerhop

grassroot1 wrote: »

Great to see your back, maybe next year you might speak to someone in there.
Oh and make sure to send in your compensation form!!!

Come to the dark side we have cookies.

You never know what the future might hold. All joking aside as mentioned there was a better atmosphere there. Last few years you could cut the air with a knife. It was a great organisation but seemed to lose its way or a few seemed to forget they were mere mortals. I really do hope the new committee steer it back to what it was set up for, the common shoring person.

arrowloopboy

Could someone summarise this whole saga in about 3 paragraphs for those who haven't been following proceedings , myself included, I am a member but I've always found the organisation focuses heavily on pheasant ,duck and clay men as opposed to stalkers,

Alb

berettaman

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Could someone summarise this whole saga in about 3 paragraphs for those who haven't been following proceedings , myself included, I am a member but I've always found the organisation focuses heavily on pheasant ,duck and clay men as opposed to stalkers,

Alb

Arrowploy heres my take on it in fairness I was at the back of the room with the other bad boys:D



1 In May the National Director was suspended on foot of legal advice pending investigation into allegations of Gross Misconduct. This was investigated internally.


2 The National Director took an injunction preventing his dismissal. In court the Association gave undertakings not to proceed with the dismissal on the proviso that an independent investigator be appointed to handle the investigation. This person was appointed at the suggestion of the Court.


3 In June 5 Counties asked for an EGM to discuss what was happening (which they had every right to look for according to the Constitution). They were asked to wait until the investigation was complete to prevent anything being said that would affect the investigation.


4 They cancelled the EGM. They then recalled the EGM . They were asked to wait again until it was out from the HC, but they refused.


5 On legal advise The Association took an injunction preventing the EGM from taking place.


6 The eventual hearing resulted in the court allowing the EGM to take place and stating that nothing being said at a meeting of the Association could affect the independent investigation or be used by the ND in any case against the Association. The Association has every right to discuss these matters without fear or favour.


7 The EGM went ahead in August resulting in much debate. When a vote of no confidence was counter proposed into a vote of confidence in the Executive and Chairman on the day. This was won by a massive majority. The dissident Counties pulled their agenda.


8 What was surprising and a shock to all in the room, while answering the questions put to them on the day other matters were revealed about the actions of certain senior officers of the Association, i.e feeding back information by text e mail etc to a party in dispute with the NARGC. Tape recordings of meetings being provided to parties in dispute with the NARGC. The meetings in the meeting room in ferbane being recordeed without permission of those present. This was all in a presentation.


9. I heard last night that some Counties want the dissidents (kicked out) and the executive members (2) who voted against the Chairman to resign. This will come to a head at the next governing body meeting which is due in October.


Its going to be very interesting to see how the election at the AGM will go in October, will the 5 counties be rolling out the usual weak minded yes men?


Michael Fenelon is a big deer stalker himself by all accounts and if you have any suggestions on what else The NARGC can do for deer stalkers let him know. I do know that the fund will now take membership from April on to assist getting the License from NPWS.

B.

Backbarrel

berettaman wrote: »

The emphasis on the next generation was very evident and this is to be applauded. The average age in my club is about 55 so we need more and more young people getting into the sport.

Overall Well done and more of the same please.

In fairness there was excellent work done by the youth development officer this year. Very hard to not give him the nod again in October.

yourvote

wirehairmax wrote: »

I dont know what your game is but youre not making sense to anyone else but yourself. Maybe youre trying to rise people and stir the pot, maybe youve some other agenda, nobody knows but yourself. But seeing as youve clearly taken sides and can only see one blinkered point of view, I for one am going to ignore you from now on. I'm not going to be caught out saying something here that could contribute to someones retirement fund.

am going to miss your contribution .......particularly as you had obviously not taken a side in the whole issue............

did anyone read the paperwork..........yes or no?


I see another poster is drawing our collective attention to a suggestion that the rgc's be kicked out or it is that their delegates resign..........here is another suggestion... why don't those who are suggesting it leave themselves as they obviously only want to associate with people who agree with their bull*^%.

that's going to be a classy next GB meeting....