New girlfriend with bad relationship history

StripedBoxers

You could be describing me in your opening post, OP.

I have to say, if I was seeing a guy who described me or spoke about me like you are speaking about this girl, I would hope he'd leave me. I would hate to think any partner could speak of me like you do of this girl.

If you are having these doubt two months in its probably a signal that you aren't overly happy or comfortable and for her sake and yours you should leave her and find someone who you think is more suitable for you.

Whatever you do, don't string her along if you are unsure, its the most cruel thing you could do to be honest, as she would develop stronger feelings for you and would be more devastated when (if) you do break up. You'll be the asshole then for stringing her along knowing you feel/felt the way you do.

Nick Lawson

There's a lot of misunderstanding here. I like her - a lot- I just can't get my head around certain things, hence the post!

I don't like writing people off, I have empathy - I don't 'pity' her or anyone else.

I'm wondering what this forum is actually for.

Conor Bourke

Nick Lawson wrote: »

There's a lot of misunderstanding here. I like her - a lot- I just can't get my head around certain things, hence the post!

I don't like writing people off, I have empathy - I don't 'pity' her or anyone else.

I'm wondering what this forum is actually for.

Do you mind me asking how old you are yourself, OP? I don't mean to be rude or pick holes in your story but perhaps it would be helpful to know what your experience in life is in relation to hers. You sound like you're both young and maybe you're a little naive in your own way so you're finding it hard to understand where your girlfriend is coming from? (If I'm being too nosy or am way wide of the mark, feel free to tell me to piss off )

Rachiee

The dynamics created in an abusive relationship are complex. There is huge amount of victim blaming in your post. Sometimes abusers are highly skilled at manipulation and even someone with average self esteem can fall victim and that self esteem be eroded over time by the abuser.
She may very well be vulnerable to abuse at this point but if you are planning on treating her right why is this a problem. I get that low self esteem is a turn off it would be for me too but I don't think it's fair to judge her current esteem levels on past behaviour when you don't really know what was going on for her at that time.

batmanrobin

Nick Lawson wrote: »

There's a lot of misunderstanding here. I like her - a lot- I just can't get my head around certain things, hence the post!

I don't like writing people off, I have empathy - I don't 'pity' her or anyone else.

I'm wondering what this forum is actually for.

The forum is for giving advice, not telling people what they want to hear.

You say you like her but you shouldn't be trying to deconstruct her. It's not healthy for either party.

Abuse doesn't just happen straight into a relationship, OP. It's a slow decay that chips away at a person's self esteem each day. It can wear a person down before they realise what's happened. Trying to build back up the self esteem can be very difficult after that as it's ingrained in the person's head that they're worthless. So yes, I can see how she might be susceptible to getting involved with the same type of man.

But you need to decide whether you wish to proceed with caution or call it a day.

Nick Lawson

Cornelius Crow wrote: »

Do you mind me asking how old you are yourself, OP? I don't mean to be rude or pick holes in your story but perhaps it would be helpful to know what your experience in life is in relation to hers. You sound like you're both young and maybe you're a little naive in your own way so you're finding it hard to understand where your girlfriend is coming from? (If I'm being too nosy or am way wide of the mark, feel free to tell me to piss off )

No problem. I'm significantly older - maybe that's part of the problem..

I'm feeling intensely sad and guilty for asking these questions / analysing / deconstructing or whatever term fits.

I'm feeling intensely confused about my own feelings. I know we're all responsible for our own lives but I can't help but feel in some way worried about her future without me.

I'm not boasting but I'm good to her - from what she's told me, treating her better than anyone else has. Whether I could or couldn't, I have no desire to treat anyone badly.

This is a lot about me - I find it difficult to decisively end a relationship because it's not "right". Like I said, I'm afraid of hurting people

eviltwin

Nick Lawson wrote: »

There's a lot of misunderstanding here. I like her - a lot- I just can't get my head around certain things, hence the post!

I don't like writing people off, I have empathy - I don't 'pity' her or anyone else.

I'm wondering what this forum is actually for.

You don't come across like you have much respect for her tbh. Repeatedly asking yourself why she thinks so little of herself that she ended up with bullies sounds like you think she's damaged goods or something. There is obviously something redeeming about her if you're dating her. Try treating her like you would any other girlfriend instead of a problem to be solved or someone who needs protecting.

Nick Lawson

eviltwin wrote: »

You don't come across like you have much respect for her tbh. Repeatedly asking yourself why she thinks so little of herself that she ended up with bullies sounds like you think she's damaged goods or something. There is obviously something redeeming about her if you're dating her. Try treating her like you would any other girlfriend instead of a problem to be solved or someone who needs protecting.

I'm not treating her like 'damaged goods' - I could be more damaged myself..

I am treating her like any other girlfriend

Emme

Nick Lawson wrote: »

No problem. I'm significantly older - maybe that's part of the problem..

This surprises me because you come across as being her age or even a bit younger. Life experience usually brings wisdom and helps us deal with people in a kinder way.

Nick Lawson wrote: »

I'm feeling intensely sad and guilty for asking these questions / analysing / deconstructing or whatever term fits.

I'm feeling intensely confused about my own feelings. I know we're all responsible for our own lives but I can't help but feel in some way worried about her future without me.

I think she will be just fine without you. You seem very unsure of your own feelings which is not good news for a relationship. Do her a favour and let her go. She needs somebody who builds her up, not somebody who picks holes in her and finds fault with her. You may not be doing this to her face but you're clearly not happy with her.

Nick Lawson wrote: »

I'm not boasting but I'm good to her - from what she's told me, treating her better than anyone else has. Whether I could or couldn't, I have no desire to treat anyone badly.

I'm sure you don't, as long as they fit into whatever ideal you have concerning relationships.

Nick Lawson wrote: »

This is a lot about me - I find it difficult to decisively end a relationship because it's not "right". Like I said, I'm afraid of hurting people

The sentence "this is a lot about me" really stood out. I think this is the crux of the issue - it's really about you and not about her. Let her go and do her a favour. She will be just fine without you.

Big Bag of Chips

Nick, I think you are getting a bit of a hard time but it is because of how you are coming across in your posts. You are coming across as quite patronising of your gf, and it doesn't surprise me to hear you are "significantly older" than her. You say you are treating her like any other girlfriend, but are you? Did you anaylse other girlfriends and question their history and family background so much? You're only 2 months into a relationship. Should you not just be enjoying your time together? Maybe she shouldn't have divulged so much information to you about her past relationships, but maybe you questioned her on them?

Nobody here knows the dynamic and we can only advise on what you've posted. But it is very clear that you are just not suited to each other. That doesn't necessarily mean it's her fault or yours. She is who she is. You are who you are, not everyone is compatible. Let her go, she might be upset briefly but she will get over you! It's only been 2 months, she'll move on. It's better for her to move onto a relationship where her boyfriend sees her as an equal. I know you like her and you like a lot about her, but you don't see her as equal to you. Staying with her out of a sense of duty, or guilt, will only do her more damage in the long run. She will sense it from you. If you think she's been through enough bad relationships, don't keep her in another one that you know in your heart is going nowhere.

woodchuck

If the relationship doesn't feel right, then just break up with her. I could be wrong, but I suspect what is happening here is that you're looking for a 'reason' to break up which is leading to all the analysis of her past etc? It sounds to me like you've already made your decision. Something that took me a long time to learn was that you don't need a reason as such to break up; trusting your gut that it's just not right is good enough.

And she'll be fine without you. Sounds like she has survived much worse. Being afraid of hurting someone is a terrible reason to stay with them. And to be honest it comes across as a little arrogant to think you would have that much impact on her life in the long term. She'll have a bit of a cry and then get over it and move on.

daisybelle2008

Nick Lawson wrote: »

There's a lot of misunderstanding here. I like her - a lot- I just can't get my head around certain things, hence the post!

I don't like writing people off, I have empathy - I don't 'pity' her or anyone else.

I'm wondering what this forum is actually for.

Really? The OP is being called selfish and a coward for having reasonable doubts about pursuing a relationship with a person who doesn t value themselves?? OP everything you said is completely reasonable. The part where she said she has no idea why she let these guys treat her like that is really concerning, if she is not self aware enough to realise that her low self-esteem is the problem with who she is attracting and she has done nothing about it, then of course she would put up with abuse again. And she still doesn t know if she values herself!!! How on earth is that someone who is ready for a decent functional relationship??

He never said he pitied her, he said he felt sad/empathetic about her situation. And it is sad that she feels that way about herself. It would be great if she didn t.

Of course she is young and still finding her way and learning, but you are in a completely different place than her.
OP don t be afraid to bail on a relationship where you have doubts and niggles like this. Weighing up someone s suitability is completely normal. Just because she is nice is not a reason to stay. She is nice, yeah grand so are most people, but she is needy, no social life and doesn t value herself .that to me has the same rate of relationship success as with an abusive controlling person. Guess what they both suffer from low self esteem, yes even the abusive controlling person!!. Run a mile from anyone with low self esteem and make no apologies about that, they play out their neediness in different ways, all of it is dysfunctional to a relationship. Find someone who likes and values themselves, you ll have a much more carefree enjoyable relationship.

You are wise to realise that there will be problems down the line, there will be. Fair play for recognising it and considering it. Don't apologise for having high standards, not wanting to go out with someone with low self esteem is nothing to be ashamed of, it is very wise. I am surprised at the hard time you are getting.

Nick Lawson

daisybelle2008 wrote: »

Really? The OP is being called selfish and a coward for having reasonable doubts about pursuing a relationship with a person who doesn t value themselves?? OP everything you said is completely reasonable. The part where she said she has no idea why she let these guys treat her like that is really concerning, if she is not self aware enough to realise that her low self-esteem is the problem with who she is attracting and she has done nothing about it, then of course she would put up with abuse again. And she still doesn t know if she values herself!!! How on earth is that someone who is ready for a decent functional relationship??

He never said he pitied her, he said he felt sad/empathetic about her situation. And it is sad that she feels that way about herself. It would be great if she didn t.

Of course she is young and still finding her way and learning, but you are in a completely different place than her.
OP don t be afraid to bail on a relationship where you have doubts and niggles like this. Weighing up someone s suitability is completely normal. Just because she is nice is not a reason to stay. She is nice, yeah grand so are most people, but she is needy, no social life and doesn t value herself .that to me has the same rate of relationship success as with an abusive controlling person. Guess what they both suffer from low self esteem, yes even the abusive controlling person!!. Run a mile from anyone with low self esteem and make no apologies about that, they play out their neediness in different ways, all of it is dysfunctional to a relationship. Find someone who likes and values themselves, you ll have a much more carefree enjoyable relationship.

You are wise to realise that there will be problems down the line, there will be. Fair play for recognising it and considering it. Don't apologise for having high standards, not wanting to go out with someone with low self esteem is nothing to be ashamed of, it is very wise. I am surprised at the hard time you are getting.

Thank you daisybelle - you've nailed it.

This is about me too. In a broader context, in addition to the obvious attraction to someone in a relationship, it can also act as a bit of buffer from the harshness of life. I've been single for long periods and managed okay but like before, I'm now thinking "here I am again - what next?" and "it's just me and world"..

I know this is no reason to stay in a relationship but it's there..Weakness on my part? Perhaps so..

batmanrobin

Nick Lawson wrote: »

Thank you daisybelle - you've nailed it.

This is about me too. In a broader context, in addition to the obvious attraction to someone in a relationship, it can also act as a bit of buffer from the harshness of life. I've been single for long periods and managed okay but like before, I'm now thinking "here I am again - what next?" and "it's just me and world"..

I know this is no reason to stay in a relationship but it's there..Weakness on my part? Perhaps so..

Nick, you're not selfish or anything else for not wanting to be in a relationship with someone with low self esteem. It's hard work and usually lots of drama.

That being said, you're coming across quite poorly in your posts - you seem to think this woman will be broken by you ending the relationship. I can guarantee you she won't.

What will upset her is knowing you continued in a relationship with her out of pity or any other naff reason.

Do not drag the ass out of this and create drama where there doesn't need to be any! The two of you aren't suited so just do the right thing and end the relationship.

Lavinia

Gs. So (following your logic) she can think too that you have been in relationships before and all of them failed so you must be a terrible loser as a person.
wow such a mature reflecting on life.

Nick Lawson

batmanrobin wrote: »

Nick, you're not selfish or anything else for not wanting to be in a relationship with someone with low self esteem. It's hard work and usually lots of drama.

That being said, you're coming across quite poorly in your posts - you seem to think this woman will be broken by you ending the relationship. I can guarantee you she won't.

What will upset her is knowing you continued in a relationship with her out of pity or any other naff reason.

Do not drag the ass out of this and create drama where there doesn't need to be any! The two of you aren't suited so just do the right thing and end the relationship.

Thanks for your reply, which I largely agree with, but I'm wondering how is having regard for someone be "coming across quite poorly"? I'm not being arrogant or have an overinflated opinion of myself but she likes me a lot, as do I her but have some niggling doubts. I thought this forum was for queries such as this?

batmanrobin

Nick Lawson wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, which I largely agree with, but I'm wondering how is having regard for someone be "coming across quite poorly"? I'm not being arrogant or have an overinflated opinion of myself but she likes me a lot, as do I her but have some niggling doubts. I thought this forum was for queries such as this?

Because you sound more like a shrink analysing a client than you do a boyfriend being concerned for his girlfriend.

She has low self esteem and has been in abusive relationships. She is now in a relationship with you and you have doubts as to whether she's a good enough match for you. Perhaps this is why she is in a relationship with you. Perhaps on some level she knows it's not going to work out.

We tend to attract and be attracted to the same types of people. We also tend to play out the same types of drama etc. When it's a person with low self esteem, these dramas are magnified. It becomes a self fulling prophecy. She doesn't think she's good enough or worthy enough and she attracts to her and is attracted to men who show her this.

You don't just wake up one morning in a healthy relationship when all you've ever been in are dysfunctional ones, not without serious self work. I take it she hadn't done that. She needs to and she needs to do it single.

CaraMay

Lavinia wrote: »

TBH I think if you walk away do not lie that it is because of her - it is because of you and your selfishness.

How is he selfish exactly? If more people took their time and thought about getting into relationships there would be less carnage around (and no relationship issues on boards ) he would be nuts to continue if he guy is shouting at him.

SusieBlue

CaraMay wrote: »

How is he selfish exactly? If more people took their time and thought about getting into relationships there would be less carnage around (and no relationship issues on boards ) he would be nuts to continue if he guy is shouting at him.

He's already in a relationship with her, it's not like he's considering whether to commit to this girl, they are already together.
I would be more sympathetic to OPs concerns if they were still in the dating stage but they've been together 2 months already.
It just sounds like a cop out, this girl has not presented any issues and it's just her past OP is concerned about, and it's a bit late in the day for that. He's projecting his own issues onto her and I agree that he should move on seeing as he's uncertain of his feelings for her.

eviltwin

Nick Lawson wrote: »

Thanks for your reply, which I largely agree with, but I'm wondering how is having regard for someone be "coming across quite poorly"? I'm not being arrogant or have an overinflated opinion of myself but she likes me a lot, as do I her but have some niggling doubts. I thought this forum was for queries such as this?

You've posted nothing about your relationship with her only her past. Yes she's had a tough time of it and that's going to take time to recover from but that doesn't mean you can't both build a good solid relationship. The fact she's dating you and not yet another bully is a good thing, she is already making better choices. I'm just a bit confused as to why you have concerns...has anything actually happened since you started dating to make you question it or is your uncertainty all based on what might happen? How much of her past were you aware of when you started going out?

daisybelle2008

Lavinia wrote: »

Gs. So (following your logic) she can think too that you have been in relationships before and all of them failed so you must be a terrible loser as a person.
wow such a mature reflecting on life.

Where on earth and how on earth did you come up with that!!?? He never ever indicated that was how he felt or that was his logic.
People are taking this very personally and projecting a lot of stuff onto the OP that he has never said. It seems to be hitting a nerve and causing people to attack the OP for things he hasn't said or done. He can't seem to win, is accused of being selfish, victim-blaming :rolleyes: (he never called her a victim!), and being a coward for wanting a bit of advise and trying to express the niggles he is having and make sense of his feelings. He has been honest about how he feels and even his own insecurities.
I wouldn't dream of entering a relationship with someone with low self esteem (Abusive, controlling people have low self esteem as do clingy needy people). People would like to see this girl as a poor unfortunate unlucky victim of a string of nasty abusive bullies of men. But that is not the black and white of it. If you consider good self esteem, making good choices for yourself and valuing yourself as important qualities in a partner early on you will coincidentally find the standard of your relationship improves accordingly. Ironically people are accusing him of pitying the girl, funnily enough the people attacking him for having doubts about the relationship and not wanting to be with her because she needs to be 'built back up' are doing exactly that.

There seems to be a double standard, if the OP was a girl who was dating a guy who told her he had been jealous and controlling in relationships (as opposed to needy and clingy), that he had changed and wasn't like that anymore but had done nothing to address his self-esteem issues and didn't value himself would she get the same responses?. Jealousy, neediness, needing to control, tolerating or giving abuse are all same sides of the coin for me, behaviours of people with low self esteem attracted to dysfunctional relationships. If the person has not found their self worth themselves, they are in the same pattern of looking for it in another person.

CaraMay

WhiteRoses wrote: »

He's already in a relationship with her, it's not like he's considering whether to commit to this girl, they are already together.
I would be more sympathetic to OPs concerns if they were still in the dating stage but they've been together 2 months already.
It just sounds like a cop out, this girl has not presented any issues and it's just her past OP is concerned about, and it's a bit late in the day for that. He's projecting his own issues onto her and I agree that he should move on seeing as he's uncertain of his feelings for her.

It's only 2 months. It's the finding out stage. Last time I checked people were allowed end relationships if it wasn't working

I agree there's a lot of projection on here. It's the very early stage of what could be a relationship - he's not married to her

batmanrobin

CaraMay wrote: »

It's only 2 months. It's the finding out stage. Last time I checked people were allowed end relationships if it wasn't working

Aye, and given the kind of doubts he's having two months in, it'd be best for him to end it.

If he was really happy with the relationship, he wouldn't be thinking the way he is.

If that is how you're feeling, OP, you'll just have to toughen up and end it. For all involved don't make a production out of ending it. Keep it simple and clean but be very clear it's over - no let's be friends or any of that.

SusieBlue

CaraMay wrote: »

It's only 2 months. It's the finding out stage. Last time I checked people were allowed end relationships if it wasn't working

I agree there's a lot of projection on here. It's the very early stage of what could be a relationship - he's not married to her

It's not a case of could be - they are actually in a relationship already or am I missing the point entirely?

I'm encouraging OP to end the relationship also. She deserves much better than to be judged so harshly on her past.

magneticimpulse

Op, why were you single up until 2 months ago? If you had successful relationships up until now you would not have been single. Surely the majority of people have a unsuccessful relationships before meeting the right person? And why are you judging her on a past in which you had no part of in her life or were not around back then? Why are you not basing your relationship on the 2 months youve spent with her?

daisybelle2008

WhiteRoses wrote: »

She deserves much better than to be judged so harshly on her past.

magneticimpulse wrote: »

And why are you judging her on a past in which you had no part of in her life or were not around back then?

There is no problem having a past. The fact is she is saying NOW, she has no idea why she let herself be treated so badly and she doesn’t value herself. That is what he is evaluating and rightly so. If she said something like I had ****ty relationships in the past because I didn’t value myself, but I have worked hard on myself and been single for a while, I concentrated on developing good friendships and am in a much better place emotionally, and have learned the importance of valuing myself and others, I don’t think he would be on here.
The fact she seems to have little self awareness about her past now is not the same as him judging her on her past. I would have the exact same concerns, if someone told me today that their life was boring and they didn't know if they valued themselves and had no idea why they let people treat them badly in the past. They would seem like someone who didn't take responsibility of their own happiness. Not attractive to me. And I wouldn't break up with them because I think 'they deserve better', I would break up thinking they are not good relationship material. I would let them down gently and tell them we are in different places and wish them luck. But wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Everybody can look back and see points in their life when their self esteem was low, at the time they were not in a good place for relationships. Not sure why people are taking this so personal.

Augme

If the girlfriend had cheated on multiple boyfriends in the past would people tell him that it's irrelevant, what happened in the past doesn't matter, since she hasn't cheat on you then you can't assume she will? If his girlfriend got into serious financial debts in the past would people say that is also irrelevant because it is in the past? It seems crazy to me that people are suggesting he just ignores her past as if it's completely irrelevant. In every other situation you see on PI you'd very rarely get people saying that, not sure why it's different here.

People's pasts are important because it shows what could potentially happen in the future. Also there are two issues that are not in the past, but in the present. One is that she's not sure if she values herself and the other is her lack of friends. Simply ignoring those issues and saying they don't matter would be a very bad idea.

Deise Vu

Did I miss a bit about love somewhere? Christ if your 25 year old gf of all of 2 months duration doesn't take your breath away, if you don't dream about her when you are apart and look forward to the second you will see her again, do not go to the dirty nappies, mortgage, middle age spread stage!

Jesus, I was dragooned into going to a motivational speaker by my boss years ago. The guy said he interviewed his wife using cliches like: "where do you see yourself in five years time?" Seriously. I still have images of him sitting miserably in some five star hotel asking the wife is she finished with the Times Business Supplemrnt yet.

Bring back love, you just can't beat it!

daisybelle2008

Augme wrote: »

If the girlfriend had cheated on multiple boyfriends in the past would people tell him that it's irrelevant, what happened in the past doesn't matter, since she hasn't cheat on you then you can't assume she will?.

Such a good example, especially if she said 'I have no idea why I cheated', but I am not going to do it again, would you take that at face value!?
If some guy tells me that all their exes were abusive b*tches I would judge them and am not going to apologise for that. I'd run a mile. I think because this is a girl people have a double standard and are seeing her as some poor helpless victim instead of someone who has taken no responsibility for the quality of her relationships.

Big Bag of Chips

I have a friend who spent 13 years in a relationship with a gambling, alcoholic drug addict. She probably spent 10 years more than she should have had with him. Less than 3 months after walking out on her marriage and whilst still in the eye of the storm of her marriage breakup she started seeing someone else. 2 years later she is still very happy with the new fella and is treated much better than she ever was by her ex. She has no idea why she put up with him for so long. She left and went back probably 7 or 8 times. She comes from a good family background, with no underlying issues...

People who stay in bad situations often say they don't know why the did. And we don't know the context of the conversation where the OP says she "doesn't know if she values herself". She has little self confidence. She might have felt self conscious, awkward, pressured ? about being asked that and just took the easy option of saying "I don't know". A common response from people who are a little shy or embarrassed to speak about themselves. Well meaning as you may be, OP, maybe it was something she just didn't want to talk about and she was just trying to shut down the conversation.

Nobody here has the context! Strong confident personalities will tell you to steer clear of her. Meeker personalities will tell you to leave her be because you don't understand her, or whatever. But whichever side you fall on the advice is unanimous! It looks unlikely to have a happy ever after, so best to cut your losses now and both of you move on.