Panti Bliss: the new Ronnie O'Brien?

spurious

When did Rory O'Neill/Panti Bliss ever claim to represent the gay 'community'?

AnonoBoy

spurious wrote: »

When did Rory O'Neill/Panti Bliss ever claim to represent the gay 'community'?

He never did.

But like all things - when someone gets a load of coverage people just tire of them.

Personally I'm not bored of Panti. I can understand how people felt moved by her speech and it was a right place/right time kinda thing.

The funny thing is if the Iona Institute hadn't threatened legal action after that Saturday Night Show interview Panti would still be just a drag queen running a bar in Dublin as opposed to an internationally known drag queen giving talks around the world. David Quinn must be really annoyed at himself!

keano_afc

I don't think we'd hear from him as much if it weren't for the likes of the Journal and the sainthood they've bestowed on him.

edbrez

That man is mentally unwell.

Zaph

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Ronnie O'Brien was actually leading Time Magazine Man of the Century alongside Einstein, Ghandi, Mandela etc... when Time Magazine pulled him out of the competition.

He was removed for being a frivolous candidate, as was Gordon Hinckley, who was president of the Church of Latter Day Saints at the time. Basically the Mormons did the same as the Irish and stuffed the vote, but some got a bit annoyed about Hinckley being removed while Elvis was top of the list for a while. Time Magazine had an online forum at the time devoted to the poll which was massively entertaining and involved much outrage (both real and of the faux variety) from large numbers of Irish guys and mainly American Mormons. Iirc both groups subsequently ganged up on the Elvisites. :pac:

Mr. CooL ICE

edbrez wrote: »

That man is mentally unwell.

Care to explain?

Snickers Man

The flying mouse wrote: »

I never knew we won the UEFA championship, :D deadly. Https// en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_UEFA_European_Under-16_Championship

You didn't?

How old are you? We won the under 18s Euros as well. And came third in the Under 20 World Cup. All within a space of 3-5 years.

Coach of all three teams was one Brian Kerr.

ohmplate

Well done everyone here.

Snickers Man

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

Isn't this just the classic Irish hating on anyone who does well for themselves outside of this country?

I mean does anyone have any actual legitimate criticism of the man or is it just the media reporting of which he doesn't have much control over?

I mean he just made a speech based on his own experiences that struck a chord with people and has capitalised on that. What a monster right?

Who called him a monster?

I think there is a body of opinion, widely expressed here, that his reputation as an influential personality is exaggerated. That's not to demonise him. But if somebody is talking nonsense, and receiving acclaim for it, is it all the fault of the media or does some of the blame lie on the person who made the utterances in the first place?

You want me to parse his entire "Noble Call" speech for self-absorbed, bland, trite and utterly impertinent soundbites? I could do it easily. There wasn't an ounce of insight in that whole rant.

None of the foregoing is any sort of argument against the basic cause he espoused, namely gay equality and in particular marriage equality. But I can think of many more genuinely courageous, humorous and empathetic campaigners who were far more influential for far longer than Panti.

Snickers Man

Snickers Man wrote: »

Now it seems that Irish internet pranksters have managed to get our local equivalent of the Shrieking Yale Girl into the upper echelons of a more recent Time poll.

How exactly is Panti Bliss our equivalent of her? Who did Rory O'Neill ever shout abuse at or try to ban from wearing a costume? I seem to recall him giving a decent speech about how homophobia can make you feel like shít, and an interview in which he shockingly referred to well known homophobes as homophobes, and.......well, that's about it.

If people are sick of hearing about Panti (and, yes, she does seem to get a lot of media coverage) surely it's not that difficult to just tune it out? If an article appears about her in a paper or online it requires much less effort to simply skim past it and not bother commenting, than it does to comment on how sick you are about hearing about her.

Rory O'Neill's isn't a full-time activist, he's a business man who dabbles in activism. The more favourable media coverage and exposure he gets, the more people are likely to be going to spend their money in Pantibar. Anyone in his position would most likely do the same. Or do you think he should flat out refuse to give any interviews or do any promotional work, just so he doesn't annoy people who seem to be very easily annoyed?

Snickers Man wrote: »

Who called him a monster?

I think there is a body of opinion, widely expressed here, that his reputation as an influential personality is exaggerated. That's not to demonise him. But if somebody is talking nonsense, and receiving acclaim for it, is it all the fault of the media or does some of the blame lie on the person who made the utterances in the first place?

What nonsense would that be? Did he say something particularly controversial or stupid that I missed?

You want me to parse his entire "Noble Call" speech for self-absorbed, bland, trite and utterly impertinent soundbites? I could do it easily. There wasn't an ounce of insight in that whole rant.

Ok, go on then.

Maybe it's not Martin Luther King stuff but there was clearly more than an ounce of insight if it was able to strike a chord with so many people.

RobertKK wrote: »

Gay or straight, or whatever else. What is the appeal of a drag queen?

I've never really gotten the appeal of it myself. But if people enjoy it then fair enough, as pursuits go it's a pretty harmless one.

newacc2015

keano_afc wrote: »

I don't think we'd hear from him as much if it weren't for the likes of the Journal and the sainthood they've bestowed on him.

I dont particularly like him. But what happen after the Saturday night show was ****ed up. Who could ever think that an everyday person could make a single comment on national TV and be slapped with several letters from various solicitors/ individuals.

Regardless of whether you like him or not. He highlighted that free speech isn't so free in Ireland. No one should be slapped with lawsuits over their opinion

doc11

newacc2015 wrote: »

I dont particularly like him. But what happen after the Saturday night show was ****ed up. Who could ever think that an everyday person could make a single comment on national TV and be slapped with several letters from various solicitors/ individuals.

Regardless of whether you like him or not. He highlighted that free speech isn't so free in Ireland. No one should be slapped with lawsuits over their opinion

You can say whatever you like but you can't Defame someone cause they don't share your opinion.

Wibbs

RobertKK wrote: »

Gay or straight, or whatever else. What is the appeal of a drag queen?

It's an interesting subject and something with very deep roots across time and cultures. Precious few cultures didn't have men(straight as well as gay too BTW) in drag exaggerating what are seen as feminine traits. It does appear to fill some sort of need within humanity.

Deleted User wrote: »

If people are sick of hearing about Panti (and, yes, she does seem to get a lot of media coverage) surely it's not that difficult to just tune it out? If an article appears about her in a paper or online it requires much less effort to simply skim past it and not bother commenting, than it does to comment on how sick you are about hearing about her.

What nonsense would that be? Did he say something particularly controversial or stupid that I missed?

Gender pronoun confusion ahoy.

BunkMoreland

Nicolas Cage wrote: »

Care to explain?

He's a male who wears a dress. What more explanation do you need?

fryup

the guy is a pain in the hole (if you pardon the pun)

i had the misfortune of briefly meeting him in a cafe and he was the most ignorant self centred obnoxious prick i have ever come across....i actually was half hoping that the referendum proposal would be defeated just to see the look on his smug face

Poor Uncle Tom

WOW!

Somebody shows up in a poll and it makes them a target for hatred.

I thought that was reserved for politicians.

arayess

the beatification of Panti by the media I find nauseating not to mention the sycophantic hi-5s thrown about social media to every utterance by a hoarde of people just waiting to hop on the next bandwagon.

Panti doesn't speak for ireland or even a portion of ireland.
The marriage referendum would have passed panti or no panti

Campaigning for gay rights in the last 10-15 was no big thing.

The bravery was shown by people like david norris and the original gay rights campaigners back in the 1970s and 1980s when there was real opposition to gay people.

Panti is the emperor without clothes and the masses are too blinded or to fearful of being labelled to call everybody else on it

iguana

doc11 wrote: »

You can say whatever you like but you can't Defame someone cause they don't share your opinion.

But he didn't defame anyone because in order to defame to someone you must say something false that makes the 'right-minded' public change their opinion on the person. Saying that someone who the majority think of as a homophobe, is a homophobe is not in anyway defamation.

MRnotlob606

Panti Bliss has been made look like Martin Luther King by the Media.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^^^

exactly,

he's one trick pony..he's a man who dresses like a woman, i mean HELLO he hasn't found a cure for cancer or anything, like get a grip everyone

Sheep Lover

It's good advertising for his business. The whole panti thing is just a marketing ploy.

Mr. CooL ICE

BunkMoreland wrote: »

He's a male who wears a dress. What more explanation do you need?

There wasn't any explanation to begin with.

A male who wears a dress is a form of entertainment for some people. Equating drag with mental illness shows a complete misunderstanding of what drag acts are and complete disregard for people battling with their own mental health.

Wibbs

Wibbs wrote: »

Gender pronoun confusion ahoy.

Generally I would refer to Panti Bliss, the character, as a "she", same as I do with any female character. But it's not something that's worth getting hung up on or bothered about (if Panti was an actual trans woman, that would be different).

One eyed Jack

The fcuking name!

"Panti Bliss"

I could understand if they were an American porn starlet, it might make sense, but a middle aged man dressing up like a cross between Bo-Bo the clown and a conservative middle aged housewife that time-warped out of the 1950's?

Bizarre.

edbrez

No-one heard of Danny La Rue from Cork? Did it all decades earlier.

mickstupp

Typical pointless disparagement in this thread. AH, rinse, repeat.

AnonoBoy

BunkMoreland wrote: »

He's a male who wears a dress. What more explanation do you need?

He wears a dress when he's in character.

Sure you might as well say Brendan O'Carroll is mentally unwell....

..... wait, bad example.

Snickers Man

Deleted User wrote: »

Maybe it's not Martin Luther King stuff but there was clearly more than an ounce of insight if it was able to strike a chord with so many people.

I respectfully but vehemently disagree.

We have a very good example at large in the Western World right now of a man who is "striking a chord" with a lot of people and it is scaring the living crap out of anybody with an ounce of common sense.

Donald Trump is tapping into quite genuine feelings of alienation, paranoia and hopelessness felt by a generation of white Americans. Of course he has little sensible to offer them. Few of his policies, such as they are, stand up to any sort of scrutiny at all. They are barely thought through, are highly dangerous and almost certainly unworkable. And they are transparently lacking in any insight whatsoever.

But boy do they "strike a chord."

Now I am not for one second putting Panti on the same moral plane as Donald Trump. I really don't think Panti means any harm, whereas Trump is a thug who doesn't care what harm he causes in the name of his own aggrandisement.

What they have in common though is a talent for preaching to the converted, for insinuation rather than elucidation, for surfing on a wave of sentiment rather than trying to change attitudes or present new insights based on intelligent argument and debate.

I doubt if Panti changed anyone's mind with his public utterances. He preached to the converted and fired them up to consider anybody who had reservations about gay marriage as "homophobes". He's a demagogue, in short.

I can't find it anywhere within my powers of reasoning to consider him in any way influential.

Deleted User wrote: »

What nonsense would that be? Did he say something particularly controversial or stupid that I missed?

I have hardly heard him utter a word of any sense at all.

He has every right to complain about being abused in the street; instead he bemoaned [during his Noble Call] the fact that people were able to tell that he was gay. He has no right to complain about that.

He complained, in his Ted Talk, that he can’t hold hands with his boyfriend in public. Says who? That’s his own lack of confidence and fear. There’s nothing the rest of us can do about that. And frankly, both of these examples are analogous to the histrionic and offensive ultrafeminist notion that “all men are rapists”, or in this case that “All straight men are homophobes”. It’s not true. Most of us just couldn’t be bothered.

He is horrified (Noble Call again) that if one presentable middle class woman writes a column at odds with what he believes it follows that (a) she must be a homophobe and (b) so must anyone else whose dress and demeanour suggest they are of the same social class.

This is garbage.

What he is actually doing is undermining years of worthwhile work done by Gay Pride and the notion that gay people should neither hide nor apologise for the fact that their orientation is a little different to most people. That they are just as likely to be ordinary decent people as the next person.

Now that does resonate with most straight people. But along comes Panti with the same “Poor me. I feel so oppressed. Some people think differently to me so they must be Bad People. Take them away” which is very similar in sentiment and outrage to the Shrieking Girl of You Tube fame.

Let’s be straight (if that’s the mot juste) about one thing. I am not decrying the notion of Gay Equality or even Gay Marriage Equality, both of which I support.

But no way did that histrionic old queen “influence” me to those positions.

I guess I just don’t like seeing his interpretation of the issue being lionised either by a Person of the Year award or a Time 100 nomination.

beach_walker

In the most 100 influential worldwide, my hole.

I have most respect for your man, the lad who did (does?) Telly Bingo. He's put in the hours. Have the misfortune of meeting "Panti" once, wouldn't darken the door of said establishment again.

Still better get posting something about "Panti should be Queen of Ireland!" on FB.

spurious

Wow, so many haters.