ESB workers get 5.5% rise and 'compensation' payment

hrcbob

hrcbob wrote: »

Can you imagine Angella or some other Angela at whatever credit institutions / investment funds they borrow from looking through the books and approving loans to a wasteful company?? I think not.

I edited that there just so you didn't get distracted by another non issue and miss the actual point again.

mariaalice

jmayo wrote: »

That is not the way it works in Ireland.

In Ireland civil servants, public servants, semi states and the so called private sector (that is actually totally owned and controlled by the state) are meant to offer lump sums on retirement, defined benefit pensions, subsidised education, career breaks, complete job security, extra payment for retraining or re assignment and yet offer salaries and wages as high as the private sector which doesn't offer half if not any of these.

I wonder how many of the ones who claim we should all aim to have high salaries, just like the ESB workers, would like it when they are paying much higher prices for their goods and services because the workers in the private sector have to be paid much more.

How many of those same people were complaining how much builders and construction related trades were costing during the building boom ?
How many of those same people were complaining when restaurants were charging much more because they were paying their staff more ?

And please note the reality where these once high paid private sector workers lost their jobs when there was a downturn.

Come on folks be honest and don't just come back with one of the usual platitudes and the old attacks.

Some one somewhere always carries the can for the cost, which is yet another thing a lot of Irish people fail to ever realise or at least acknowledge.

If a company is operating on wafer thin margins and paying the minimum wage is a strain, juts maybe they should not be in business. There is a balance to be struck it should not be employment at any cost.

jmayo

mariaalice wrote: »

If a company is operating on wafer thin margins and paying the minimum wage is a strain, juts maybe they should not be in business. There is a balance to be struck it should not be employment at any cost.

Do you realise how many businesses might go through periods where if they were use your yardstick then they should shut.

Even some very successful businesses started off living on the edge for years.
Should they just have thrown in the towel ?

Using your ethos a lot more pubs, shops, restaurants would be gone.
Is that what you want ?

Some businesses struggle by and then there are some that do ok, but there is no way in hell they would be able to provide most of the conditions similar to those found in our public/semi state sector.

mariaalice

jmayo wrote: »

Do you realise how many businesses might go through periods where if they were use your yardstick then they should shut.

Even some very successful businesses started off living on the edge for years.
Should they just have thrown in the towel ?

Using your ethos a lot more pubs, shops, restaurants would be gone.
Is that what you want ?

Some businesses struggle by and then there are some that do ok, but there is no way in hell they would be able to provide most of the conditions similar to those found in our public/semi state sector.

I didn't say they should, however if year in year out you are struggling at paying minimum wage and are barley surviving is the business viable.

esforum

jmayo wrote: »

Some businesses struggle by and then there are some that do ok, but there is no way in hell they would be able to provide most of the conditions similar to those found in our public/semi state sector.

yeah, defo no companies making millions, simple dont exist. All those rich fat cats are just about keeping the heat on in their 15 bedroom mansions and food on the 20 person royal oak veneered tables while running their businesses from their cold frosty offices while having to suffer the conversations with other business folk

and heres me milking it in my 3 bed semi and chips and egg then going to work in the caribean sunshine that is Dublin city centre in January to talk to those delighful scamps, the junkies.

Jaysus, I have myself feeling so bad for JP, Michael and the boys Im thinking of making a donation to the business owners fund. Millionaires, they arent just for the good times folks

maryishere

mariaalice wrote: »

if year in year out you are struggling at paying minimum wage and are barley surviving is the business viable.

Many businesses and self employed are just scraping by, after paying vat, high electricity costs, rates, accountancy fees, taxes and all the other overheads. Would you prefer if all these businesses closed down? As someone else said, there is no way most businesses could afford to provide most of the conditions similar to those found in our public/semi state sector.

Look at it another way. Its not too long since the average pay an pension of an esb worker was almost €100,000.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/average-pay-and-pension-of-esb-workers-near-100000-26632772.html
How many businesses pay that on average to their employees? That €7,000,000,000 wage bill per year has to come from somewhere....yes, thats right, it came from our esb bills.
I believe even empty houses here in Ireland have to pay over €300 per year just to keep the electricity connected even if they do not use electricity....the esb increases the standing charge in the case of very low useage!

maryishere

esforum wrote: »

Millionaires, they arent just for the good times folks

You seem to have a thing about millionaires. Do you know many?
http://thestar.ie/e4m-pension-pot-for-ex-garda-commissioner-callinan/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pension-worth-11m-26518918.html

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

Many businesses and self employed are just scraping by, after paying vat, high electricity costs, rates, accountancy fees, taxes and all the other overheads. Would you prefer if all these businesses closed down? As someone else said, there is no way most businesses could afford to provide most of the conditions similar to those found in our public/semi state sector.

The highly skilled people I know working in the private sector earn far in excess and have far better perks than those in the public sector.

The sooner you accept talented, skilled and highly educated employees deserve high wages, perks and good working conditions. Why do you think people work hard and get highly educated, I spent 9 years in university do you think I didn't it to just get by the same as someone who left school at 18 and never gained any skills?

maryishere

Edison Glamorous Gargoyle wrote: »

The sooner you accept talented, skilled and highly educated employees deserve high wages, perks and good working conditions.

I never said they do not. Quite the opposite in fact, as I know many talented, skilled and highly educated people who do not have what you would consider high wages and perks. The median wage in the private sector is about 28.5k a year.
Are you claiming people on less than your 80 to 100k a year are not "talented, skilled and highly educated"?
I suppose it depends by what you define as "high wages, perks and good working conditions". I know of some "talented, skilled and highly educated people" who cannot get a decent job and would love to get 30k a year : other people may turn their nose up at 80k a year.

You did not answer the question asked above anyway: Many businesses and self employed are just scraping by, after paying vat, high electricity costs, rates, accountancy fees, taxes and all the other overheads. Would you prefer if all these businesses closed down? Some business owners are paying themselves the minimum wage or even less, and sometimes working very long hours, in the hope that business eventually recovers...and because they would not be entitled to social welfare if they closed down.

esforum

maryishere wrote: »

You seem to have a thing about millionaires. Do you know many?
http://thestar.ie/e4m-pension-pot-for-ex-garda-commissioner-callinan/
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pension-worth-11m-26518918.html

Shes reverted back, folks she is back at the 1 million pension post again!!!!

4 years, multiple threads. Its the Health system, the ESB, Gardai, teachers and civil servants oh and the army. Did I miss anyone?

Unbelievable. When someone pressed play on you did they have the auto-repeat on?

Not happening Mary, you dragged me into your crap too often, not happening again.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=99442496&postcount=1341

jmayo

esforum wrote: »

yeah, defo no companies making millions, simple dont exist. All those rich fat cats are just about keeping the heat on in their 15 bedroom mansions and food on the 20 person royal oak veneered tables while running their businesses from their cold frosty offices while having to suffer the conversations with other business folk

and heres me milking it in my 3 bed semi and chips and egg then going to work in the caribean sunshine that is Dublin city centre in January to talk to those delighful scamps, the junkies.

Jaysus, I have myself feeling so bad for JP, Michael and the boys Im thinking of making a donation to the business owners fund. Millionaires, they arent just for the good times folks

Talk about reverting to type.
Pot and kettle comes to mind.

Why not stop drinking the jack o'connor koolaid or the communist party manifesto.
Yeah every owner is another Tony Ryan, Michael Smurfit or JP McManus. :rolleyes:

Why not give it a rest and stop using a Christy Moore song for your definition of business owners.

Yes there are millionaire business owners, but for every millionaire there are a fair few ones just keeping the wolf from the door.

Why not look at it like soccer players, which i am sure you adore seeing as it is the game of the ordinary working man.

For every Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney, Bale, Aguero,Ibrahimovic there are a huge number of lads toiling away for much much less in forgotten teams in lower divisions, who are just one more injury away from being finished in the game and then trying to scrap a living for their families.

And btw if a business owner is the one taking the risk (personal loan guarantees, re mortgaged home, etc) so that others actually might have a job, should they not be able to make some money out of it.

Oh and before you even try and come up with some more of the usual tripe, not every business owner is a fooking property developer that was able to dump their debts on taxpayers, which included other business owners as well as PAYE workers.

And when the great socialist/communist experiment was tried where everyone was equal, it was a fooking disaster.
Hell even the Chinese and Vietnamese figured that out.
Maybe it is about time you did as well.

esforum

jmayo wrote: »

Talk about reverting to type.
Pot and kettle comes to mind.

indeed, I like to balance things out so everyone can see the foolishness of only using one extreme as an example, I am glad it was not lost on you.

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah every owner is another Tony Ryan, Michael Smurfit or JP McManus. :rolleyes:

Theres only one Garda commissioner, doesnt stop a certain user from using that income as a stick to beat all Gardai with.

jmayo wrote: »

Yes there are millionaire business owners, but for every millionaire there are a fair few ones just keeping the wolf from the door.

Correct but there are still millionaires and not all public sector workers are miling the state dry.

jmayo wrote: »

For every Ronaldo, Messi, Rooney, Bale, Aguero,Ibrahimovic there are a huge number of lads toiling away for much much less in forgotten teams in lower divisions, who are just one more injury away from being finished in the game and then trying to scrap a living for their families.

Try to keep up, only a few days ago I posted on this subject. Even the lower league players in England, Spain, Italy and Germany are earning far in excess of the average wage or even the top wage that a Garda can earn.

jmayo wrote: »

And btw if a business owner is the one taking the risk (personal loan guarantees, re mortgaged home, etc) so that others actually might have a job, should they not be able to make some money out of it.

Of course they should, hi. My name is ESForum. I have for the past month or so being arguing for peoples rights to choose their own course and try and make the most of life for themselves instead of dragging down others. Nice to meet you.

jmayo wrote: »

Oh and before you even try and come up with some more of the usual tripe, not every business owner is a fooking property developer that was able to dump their debts on taxpayers, which included other business owners as well as PAYE workers.

Again correct, just as the majority of public sector workers go to work, do a days work, pay their bills and try to get on with life. They arent all top level civil servants or TD's

jmayo wrote: »

And when the great socialist/communist experiment was tried where everyone was equal, it was a fooking disaster.
Hell even the Chinese and Vietnamese figured that out.
Maybe it is about time you did as well.

Well, communism I would generally agree perhaps maybe Cuba, but even then yeah, great idea but not so much great practice.

I dont think you know real socialism though, theres more socialist nations in the world than you evidently realise. Even Ireland is described as socialist.

loremolis

More of the same nonsense from overpaid monkeys with cushy jobs, big pensions and job security.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/threat-of-industrial-action-by-esb-staff-34781351.html

jack presley

loremolis wrote: »

More of the same nonsense from overpaid monkeys with cushy jobs, big pensions and job security.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/threat-of-industrial-action-by-esb-staff-34781351.html

And loremolis wins the race with Maryishere to be the first to voice their bitterness on this. I knew when I read that story this morning one of you two would be on here.

Whatever the bitterness is (didn't get a job, was let go, didn't get contract renewed) you really need to let it go. It's not healthy for you.

mariaalice

jack presley wrote: »

And loremolis wins the race with Maryishere to be the first to voice their bitterness on this. I knew when I read that story this morning one of you two would be on here.

Whatever the bitterness is (didn't get a job, was let go, didn't get contract renewed) you really need to let it go. It's not healthy for you.

That is a bit simplistic at best, its the old insider debate in Irish society reformed in another guise, social partnership use to get a lot of the blame but that is gone now. While I have a strong dislike of the ill-informed ranting that goes on AH it does come form some where.

loremolis

jack presley wrote: »

And loremolis wins the race with Maryishere to be the first to voice their bitterness on this. I knew when I read that story this morning one of you two would be on here.

Whatever the bitterness is (didn't get a job, was let go, didn't get contract renewed) you really need to let it go. It's not healthy for you.

Sad that you would think of me when you saw that article.

Whatever the loneliness is (couldn't get a girlfriend, your dog ran away, your car wouldn't start) you should concentrate on wondering why ESB employees are so well paid at your expense.

Two Tone

Overpaid monkeys look after the country's electricity infrastructure? I would say they're a tad more skilled and trained and qualified than that.

If people feel compelled to criticise them, fair enough, but it does look extremely bitter to be on a crusade in relation to just one organisation (which isn't even fully public) and to think they would be so different to the others if they were working there/got that job they may have been going for in ESB years ago.

Sheeps

Semi state body employing thousands of highly educated engineers gets a 2% increase in wages per year. Shocking (pun) stuff. If this was unskilled labour (cough cough luas drivers) then they could fuck right off alright

Two Tone

Sheeps wrote: »

Semi state body employing thousands of highly educated engineers gets a 2% increase in wages per year. Shocking (pun) stuff. If this was unskilled labour (cough cough luas drivers) then they could fuck right off alright

Absolutely!

Now the Luas drivers making the demands in question - THEY are a crowd who are taking the pee!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

loremolis wrote: »

More of the same nonsense from overpaid monkeys with cushy jobs, big pensions and job security.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/threat-of-industrial-action-by-esb-staff-34781351.html

You really need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

maryishere

Barrett Orange Pillowcase wrote: »

You really need to get rid of that chip on your shoulder.

You too should realise, whenever you get your extortionate ESB bill for so few units used, that part of the reason its so high is because ESB employees are so highly paid at your expense.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

maryishere wrote: »

You too should realise, whenever you get your extortionate ESB bill for so few units used, that part of the reason its so high is because ESB employees are so highly paid at your expense.

Payroll costs are actually a very small percentage of the cost of electricity.

Maybe you should realise that you can't just make rubbish up and get away with it.

Edit; oh and I find my electricity bill to be reasonable to be quite honest.

Two Tone

Barrett Orange Pillowcase wrote: »

Payroll costs are actually a very small percentage of the cost of electricity.

Maybe you should realise that you can't just make rubbish up and get away with it.

A person presenting stuff that they "guess" as fact should be more of a TheJournal.ie thing than on here.

mikeym

What would Sir Richard Branson do?

















Sorry lads that bloody advert is on too much.

maryishere

Barrett Orange Pillowcase wrote: »

Payroll costs are actually a very small percentage of the cost of electricity.

You would also claim that payroll costs are actually a very small percentage of the cost of a luas ticket. Still does not make it right.

In 2012 it was claimed ESB's Payroll costs were listed at €700 million and the number of employees at 6,700,which gave average payroll costs per employee then of €104,000.;)

And our electricity bills are amongst the highest in the world, thank YOU.

Two Tone

It was "claimed"? Solid stuff there.

Must do some research myself as to where Ireland's electricity price ranks globally.

ted1

loremolis wrote: »

More of the same nonsense from overpaid monkeys with cushy jobs, big pensions and job security.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/threat-of-industrial-action-by-esb-staff-34781351.html

Very ordinary sized pensions, workers pay X amount and employers pay y amount.

maryishere

ted1 wrote: »

Very ordinary sized pensions, workers pay X amount and employers pay y amount.

Its not that many years since the same paper reported that average pay and pension of ESB workers was near €100,000 http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/average-pay-and-pension-of-esb-workers-near-100000-26632772.html

I am not surprised you think esb pay and pensions are very ordinary, given average industrial wage is only thirty something k a year and most private sector workers cannot afford a pension. Come on be honest,: even the then ESB union boss, Brendan Ogle, a few years ago described his ESB members as " spoilt ". Mr Ogle also claimed ESB workers enjoyed government "gravy" in the form of perks such as after-work schemes.

Barrett Orange Pillowcase wrote: »

Edit; oh and I find my electricity bill to be reasonable to be quite honest.

I think ESB workers also get some concessions in their own ESB bills.;)
The rest of us held to blackmail are not so lucky, and our bills are some of the most expensive in the world.

Two Tone

Having to pay for a service is "being held to blackmail"?

maryishere

maryishere wrote: »

You would also claim that payroll costs are actually a very small percentage of the cost of a luas ticket. Still does not make it right.

In 2012 it was claimed ESB's Payroll costs were listed at €700 million and the number of employees at 6,700,which gave average payroll costs per employee then of €104,000.;)

And our electricity bills are amongst the highest in the world, thank YOU.

When are you going to get it into your head that they are highly skilled workers and deserve every penny. Just because you aren't a highly skilled worker and are paid accordingly does not mean they shouldn't be. You are like a child having a tantrum because their friend got a better present from Santa and would rather break their present just because you can't have the same.

Also as had been mentioned numerous times the energy regulator sets a minimum unit price, every time this is reduced the suppliers immediately reduce their price.

I get an esb bill of about 100 euro every 2 months in a 3 person house, not what I would call extortionate by any means.