Old Tool Restoration

‘Rare’ Stanley W4 hammer, 16oz Warrington pattern cross pein. That completes the set, from CP3.1/2 to W4. I rehandled it (bought as a head only) with a beautifully tight and straight grained piece of birch.

Hard to ignore them these days. Another 5 1/2 for rehab. This time a corrugated version. Currently mid-surgery, stripped completely bare metal and awaiting refinishing and a few parts from ebay. The lateral adjuster is missing the small tab and the lever cap is not up to scratch so will be replaced. I have a few NOS vintage Stanley blades so I’ll fit one of those and keep my eyes open for another Clifton Stay-Set type 2 piece cap iron to match the rest of my planes. Shame they discontined those, as I really like how they work. Anyway, here’s how it looks in ‘prep’, more to follow.





I’m doing the same with a #4 corrugated, another nice plane but rough looking and would only annoy me to look at it.

Here’s how they look awaiting paint.

Also batch restoring about half a dozen old Stanley and Record blades and cap irons. Phosphoric acid solution works very well.

Derusted and painted the bodies and then repaired some minor damage to the handles and stained those. I've given up trying to mask around the mating points on the body and frog when painting them. It's easier to just let the paint cure for a couple of days and then clean it off with a razor blade.

After a few hours in the oven this morning after removing the excess paint, some shellac on the handles and some autoglym metal polish for the barrel nuts, I think I'll call these another success. I put a set of bakelite type handles on the #4 as I wanted the wooden ones for a new old stock #10 1/2 I recently bought. I'm happy with the results.

Collibosher

Looks great, what brand/type of black paint are you using on that ?

Collibosher

Collibosher wrote: »

Looks great, what brand/type of black paint are you using on that ?

Thanks. Hammerite smooth black, applied with a really soft natural bristle #2 brush. I start in at the frog mount area, then in front of the throat, on to the toe then just behind the frog mount and work back to the heel.

Flow the paint into the corners and brush up from there to the top of the cheeks/side and it works well and has minimal risk of sagging. If you work fairly quickly and avoid dragging the paint it’s possible to get a nice clean first coat down. Leave it for the recommended 4 hours, then a second coat in natural light will allow you to give good coverage on anywhere the first coat settled a little thin.

The other half was out for the day so I offered to clean the oven. She was delighted. It covered my tracks as the planes went in at 70 degrees for about 3 hours, then oven off and let it all cool down naturally with the door closed. The same cure previously took a week to ten days I think, but yesterday evening the paint was hard and didn’t marr where the screws cinched down on the washers. I was well pleased with that. Today there’s not a whiff off them either which is great.

Hope that helps!

imakebiodiesel

You are doing some lovely work here, so good to see these planes getting a new lease of life.
Unfortunately Ive been banned from the kitchen oven due to complaints about the fumes when I have used to it temper chisels and other blades.
Got a second hand one for my workshop now.
You mentioned the Record Stay Set lever caps earlier, They were a great idea and really did reduce chatter but were very expensive to make compared to the stock lever cap. I remember reading an article by John Sainsbury who worked for Record that after the war it was very difficult to sell anything with the letters SS engraved on it.

Not really a restoration, but old planes (especially odd ones) are always interesting to look at. This is a 55 cobbled together from two 'scrap' ones. I bought a small job lot and got a few good parts, then found one on fleabay UK that needed those good parts. Need a depth stop for the slitter and a pair of 'nickers' for the skates, then it's all there essentially. Not bad for about €120 all-in. About as far from collectable as you'd get, but will be about as usable as a 55 whenever I feel like a frustrating afternoon making matches.

And a bit of a teaser.

This one is going to upset someone at some stage, as I'm going with the usual total refurb on it. Japanning is great, so no painting, but apart from that, it's getting 'the works'. No damage at all, apart from the broken tote. That looks like it'll repair nicely too as the break is clean and nothing is missing.

magicbastarder

where did you get it? ebay?

Yep. Shipped from the US, landed in for a shade under €140 all in.

magicbastarder

for two planes? or more?

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

for two planes? or more?

For the Stanley #2 on its own. A bargain price.

The 55 cost me €70 for one donor including postage from ebay UK (rough, broken bits and missing parts), and I'm allocating €50 from the price of the job lot to the other donor which was also rough, broken and missing parts. Neither came with cutters, but I have a full set of excellent cutters for the 55 which I bought for my Veritas combination plane last year. Put them together and I have a useable 55. That job lot included a Stanley 48 with no cutters, a 151 spokeshave and something else I can't remember at the moment and cost me €120 in total for those.

magicbastarder

JayZeus wrote: »

For the Stanley #2 on its own. A bargain price.

wow, i didn't know they were fetching those sort of prices.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

For the Stanley #2 on its own. A bargain price.

Were you over at makers central a few weeks ago in Birmingham, if so what did you think of the antique tools stand?

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

Were you over at makers central a few weeks ago in Birmingham, if so what did you think of the antique tools stand?

I wasn't there, no. I was browsing the list of exhibitors beforehand and saw that The Vintage Tool Co (started/owned by Ben Crowe from Crimson Guitars) were there. Is that who you're asking about? I've dealt with them a couple of times, but I'm unlikely to do so again unless they have something very specific that I want. Ben seems like a cool enough guy, a bit of a character, but the items I bought previously weren't as described. I dealt with them twice at the beginning of the year and in both cases they let themselves down.

I had to listen to an awful lot of BS and excuses from the guy who works for him (Jake) while he dicked around and delayed on sending my parcel for over a week. Looking over their ebay feedback that seemed somewhat common, along with people opening cases with ebay and the payment being returned by the seller as they couldn't locate the item. See for yourself.

It's also of interest to note that they've opened up a couple of additional ebay seller accounts and I'm not sure what good reason they'd have for doing that. They're all for the same Stalbridge seller location, trading under the same basic identity, but only one lists a company/business seller status. Just seems odd. They seem to sell some stuff 'sold as seen' on those accounts and given the items I received and how inspection showed up lots of problems an experienced vintage tool dealer absolutely would have spotted, I can't help but think that's a way to offload some ropey tat without creasing their feedback on the business listings.

I don't think Ben is much of a businessman and I think the guy who's working for him is keeping him in the dark on some things, just based on my own experience and the lines of horse-crap he tried feeding me.

Anyway, that's more than I planned to say about them. I'd buy from them via their company website, paying via paypal, but only for something I can't find anywhere else.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

wow, i didn't know they were fetching those sort of prices.

Yeah, a couple of hundred euro with delivery and maybe a little more if you're caught for duty and VAT would be normal enough. A lof of #2's with damage to the tote can also have cracked or broken soles as there's a vulnerability in the way the support for the tote is on that model.

This one is going directly to a new owner as soon as I'm done with it. They're a dinky little thing and I imagine could actually be useful to some people, maybe luthiers or that kind of thing. For regular furniture making or general purpose woodworking use I wouldn't see the point, apart from the novelty. A decent 60 1/2 or 9 1/2 (old, only ever old if looking at Stanley ones of those) would be just as useful for most woodworkers I'd say.

The guy who's getting this #2 is actively looking for a #1 to finish his 1-8 collection. Those ones are just stupid money. And I'd find it hard to agree to restore/refurbish a #1 for him so I've told him a light cleaning is all I'd do on one of those. They're just too expensive and much more rare than a #2 from what I can tell.

A few years ago I was passing Longford gaa pitch on the way home from mayo.
There was the tail end of a car boot sale on so I went for a look.
There was 2 lads with a stand selling only beautiful old tools.
Boxes and boxes of stuff, from the chat I had with them it was a full time gig. Buying in the UK and selling here.
They had an old machinests tool box full of stuff that I kinda regret not buying but all the stuff was in imperial and I only work in metric!
Anyone know them?

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

I wasn't there, no. I was browsing the list of exhibitors beforehand and saw that The Vintage Tool Co (started/owned by Ben Crowe from Crimson Guitars) were there. Is that who you're asking about? I've dealt with them a couple of times, but I'm unlikely to do so again unless they have something very specific that I want. Ben seems like a cool enough guy, a bit of a character, but the items I bought previously weren't as described. I dealt with them twice at the beginning of the year and in both cases they let themselves down.

I had to listen to an awful lot of BS and excuses from the guy who works for him (Jake) while he dicked around and delayed on sending my parcel for over a week. Looking over their ebay feedback that seemed somewhat common, along with people opening cases with ebay and the payment being returned by the seller as they couldn't locate the item. See for yourself.

It's also of interest to note that they've opened up a couple of additional ebay seller accounts and I'm not sure what good reason they'd have for doing that. They're all for the same Stalbridge seller location, trading under the same basic identity, but only one lists a company/business seller status. Just seems odd. They seem to sell some stuff 'sold as seen' on those accounts and given the items I received and how inspection showed up lots of problems an experienced vintage tool dealer absolutely would have spotted, I can't help but think that's a way to offload some ropey tat without creasing their feedback on the business listings.

I don't think Ben is much of a businessman and I think the guy who's working for him is keeping him in the dark on some things, just based on my own experience and the lines of horse-crap he tried feeding me.

Anyway, that's more than I planned to say about them. I'd buy from them via their company website, paying via paypal, but only for something I can't find anywhere else.

Your correct, I couldn't remember the actual company name.

Based on the items the speil they were giving a few people and looking for a 70 sterling for a post war Stanley no4 where the lateral adjuster moved to what ever side the plane was laid down on, I decided to give them a miss in future.

magicbastarder

i guess i'm just used to paying €10-€15 for a reasonable number 4 that i didn't expect #2 planes would command such a price. i guess availability trumps everything.

DubInMeath

DubInMeath wrote: »

Your correct, I couldn't remember the actual company name.

Based on the items the speil they were giving a few people and looking for a 70 sterling for a post war Stanley no4 where the lateral adjuster moved to what ever side the plane was laid down on, I decided to give them a miss in future.

I suppose I'm not really surprised. I think a lot of people who'd go to that show would be 'makers' as opposed to relatively well informed woodworkers specifically. I see nothing at all wrong with asking for €80-100 for a really well set up #4, 'tuned' correctly and ready to go without a minutes work being required. And I mean really well set up, better than new standard. But paying the exhibitor fees, travel, accommodation, wages, payment terminals, probably an add-on for liability insurance, printing and so on.. I can see how that would very quickly turn what should be a 20-25 quid 'user' plane (retail, from a business) into a need to scrape in as much as possible to have made the exhibition worthwhile. And as I said, I reckon some attendees would pay it because they know no better and the brand would reassure them it was okay to buy fairly blindly. Not smart as that kind of rip will cost them on their reputation.

I'd much rather deal with some of the decent guys (I assume) in Ireland who are fair and reasonably priced and know what they're at. Assuming the intention is to buy something without hidden damage or problems rendering the whole endeavour a waste of time and effort. Or arguably better still, just ask someone like Bob Leach to get you what you're looking for if you can't find it locally. He's a gentleman, pleasant and helpful to deal with and gives honest and open descriptions of what he sell, warts and all kind of thing. He's never failed to deliver what he says you're getting. He's also helped track down things for me within a couple of weeks as he's always in contact with dealers and collectors across the UK and can usually locate something without much trouble, from the kinds of folk who just don't do the ebay thing. I always enjoy reading his blog posts also as you get a sense he's really enthusiastic about what he's doing, not just spinning a yarn to flog you something: www.oldhandtools.co.uk/blog

magicbastarder wrote: »

i guess i'm just used to paying €10-€15 for a reasonable number 4 that i didn't expect #2 planes would command such a price. i guess availability trumps everything.

That's it! I'm always on the lookout for #4's and #5's for small money like that. They're so plentiful that I get the feeling we'll never run out of them in our lifetimes.

Question for you fellas. Have you noticed the differences in English made Stanley castings down through the years? I've actually found that some of the very nicest of the 4/5's have been those made in the 1960's leading in to the early 1970s. Clean castings, often heavier/thicker, while being tidy around the raised Made in England and Bailey writing. Also something to keep in mind is that the much earlier #4 in particular is often shorter behind the frog than the later models. The result is that the pre-war/wartime #4 is actually very cramped to hold (3 in, 1 out etc) than the later ones. I have a couple of good examples here that I'll dig out and photograph for you tomorrow so you can see what I'm writing about. Mentioning it as I've not seen it noted anywhere else, but the eye nor the ruler lies that the difference is notable.

JayZeus

JayZeus wrote: »

I suppose I'm not really surprised. I think a lot of people who'd go to that show would be 'makers' as opposed to relatively well informed woodworkers specifically. I see nothing at all wrong with asking for €80-100 for a really well set up #4, 'tuned' correctly and ready to go without a minutes work being required. And I mean really well set up, better than new standard. But paying the exhibitor fees, travel, accommodation, wages, payment terminals, probably an add-on for liability insurance, printing and so on.. I can see how that would very quickly turn what should be a 20-25 quid 'user' plane (retail, from a business) into a need to scrape in as much as possible to have made the exhibition worthwhile. And as I said, I reckon some attendees would pay it because they know no better and the brand would reassure them it was okay to buy fairly blindly. Not smart as that kind of rip will cost them on their reputation.

I'd much rather deal with some of the decent guys (I assume) in Ireland who are fair and reasonably priced and know what they're at. Assuming the intention is to buy something without hidden damage or problems rendering the whole endeavour a waste of time and effort. Or arguably better still, just ask someone like Bob Leach to get you what you're looking for if you can't find it locally. He's a gentleman, pleasant and helpful to deal with and gives honest and open descriptions of what he sell, warts and all kind of thing. He's never failed to deliver what he says you're getting. He's also helped track down things for me within a couple of weeks as he's always in contact with dealers and collectors across the UK and can usually locate something without much trouble, from the kinds of folk who just don't do the ebay thing. I always enjoy reading his blog posts also as you get a sense he's really enthusiastic about what he's doing, not just spinning a yarn to flog you something: www.oldhandtools.co.uk/blog



That's it! I'm always on the lookout for #4's and #5's for small money like that. They're so plentiful that I get the feeling we'll never run out of them in our lifetimes.

Question for you fellas. Have you noticed the differences in English made Stanley castings down through the years? I've actually found that some of the very nicest of the 4/5's have been those made in the 1960's leading in to the early 1970s. Clean castings, often heavier/thicker, while being tidy around the raised Made in England and Bailey writing. Also something to keep in mind is that the much earlier #4 in particular is often shorter behind the frog than the later models. The result is that the pre-war/wartime #4 is actually very cramped to hold (3 in, 1 out etc) than the later ones. I have a couple of good examples here that I'll dig out and photograph for you tomorrow so you can see what I'm writing about. Mentioning it as I've not seen it noted anywhere else, but the eye nor the ruler lies that the difference is notable.

I actually noticed something like what your saying in Birmingham and on a new no4 I was looking at in mcquillans as they were the only place I have seen them, very uncomfortable to hold.

I wouldn't have the biggest hands in the world but can see the difference in using my dad's no4 and no5 1/2, but I still have the habit of pointing with the index of my right hand.

I have so little time recently to actually do some woodworking, that I can't really spend time to fix up anything and taking a chance on eBay, but hopefully that will change soon.

magicbastarder

JayZeus wrote: »

Question for you fellas. Have you noticed the differences in English made Stanley castings down through the years? I've actually found that some of the very nicest of the 4/5's have been those made in the 1960's leading in to the early 1970s. Clean castings, often heavier/thicker, while being tidy around the raised Made in England and Bailey writing.

just checked what i have at the moment; two fours, and two 4.5s. however, one of the 4.5s is a modern one (plastic tote instead of wood), and one of the fours is a marples, not a stanley.

magicbastarder

magicbastarder wrote: »

just checked what i have at the moment; two fours, and two 4.5s. however, one of the 4.5s is a modern one (plastic tote instead of wood), and one of the fours is a marples, not a stanley.

Do you find the no4 with the plastic comfortable to use, I didn't find it very comfortable to hold and couldn't imagine it to be for extended use.

magicbastarder

i knew i was missing one. i found a record no. 4 hiding in the shed too. and the lever cap on one of the 4s is an acorn branded one (i think that's the one on the stanley)
regarding the plastic, there's a je ne sais quoi about using it compared to a wooden handle. maybe just the tactile aspect, but yeah, i prefer the wood.

i don't want to make it sound like i know what i'm talking about, by the way; i'm just not able to walk past a plane being sold for 15 quid without thinking 'sure half an hour's work will have that nearly back to its prime'.

That half hour normally turns into two+ days in my case.

In relation to the plastic handles, sure I would prefer wooden ones also but it's not a requirement. I just found the no4 with them uncomfortable and was just wondering what they were like to use for an actual piece of work. But again what might suit one person will suit another just fine in terms of feel, size etc.

I'm happy enough with how this turned out.. The sole had a bit more work since I took the pictures but there's some minor pitting that I'm not chasing after. It's not a new tool and it's going to be used regularly so no point in overdoing it. The cheeks also have plenty of minor pitting but they're now rust free and clean so that's good enough. The japanning is nearly perfect, just a little thin around the throat from wear over the years. The knob and tote are rosewood and show their age. I chased a few cracks in the knob and repaired the tote as best I could but it's impossible to make them quite perfect. I'm happy with the results all the same. It's a nice 'user' tool.