Old Tool Restoration

Wossack

do you guys put anything on the stripped metal to inhibit future rust? or just leave em bare?

Calahonda52

Wossack wrote: »

do you guys put anything on the stripped metal to inhibit future rust? or just leave em bare?

I dry mine off, rub down with a cloth first with WD40 and then a light coat of machine oil, you need to make sure all the vinegar, and baking soda is removed, even when wet with water they begin to rust while you look at them.

On my T bars I had to remove the labels as the vinegar had got underneath, need to check the labels on speedies today...

I have a 5 litre can of WD40 with a hand sprayer so its not from the pressurised can

Wossack

thanking you..! turned out great, thanks for the picks and details

magicbastarder

i've just been handed this by a neighbour clearing out a garage. not much restoration needed at all - doesn't show any signs of ever having been used. couple of chunks taken out of the blade is all that needs rectifying.

Sparks

I need different neighbours!

magicbastarder

i've never used one before - so i'm wondering why there's the separate section at the nose?
i.e. why the gap in the sole, and why is it not continuous?

Sparks

Because the blade can get mounted on either of the two positions. You'd put it in the nose for using it as a sort-of-but-not-fantastic-bullnose plane, for example. All the 78 pattern planes have that. I haven't tried doing it in my 778 yet though, I'm guessing it's really only useful for rebates that end before the edge of the board and I've not needed one of those yet.

magicbastarder

bugger, i hadn't spotted the mounting for the blade on the second position.

Sparks

Paul Sellers was writing about them recently (here and here), though he's using the A78 (Woden's version, which looks like a 778 with a handle at the nose).

imakebiodiesel

Thats a nice no 78 but there are several bits missing. There should be a chrome plated bar screwed into the side with a sliding fence on it and on the other side there should be a depth stop with a thumb screw. Spares can be bought from Stanley but these will cost as much as a second hand 78. It would be worth enquiring from your neighbour if those parts are lying around somewhere. Its a very good rebate plane and as Sparks said a sort of all right bullnose with the blade in the forward position.
The Woden A78 and the Record 778 are improved versions of the original design. They both have two guide bars and a fence as long as the body of the plane. If you use your plane to make rebates rather than tidying up machine made rebates the improvement is worth having.

imakebiodiesel

The handle at the front is an add on that woodworkers make themselves. Its easy to make if you have a lathe.

magicbastarder

most of the rest of the contents of the garage ended up in a skip. there's no way the other components survived the clearout, unfortunately. if they were even there to begin with.

Sparks

They're easy enough to find on ebay, run to around the €20 mark.

Sparks

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

Im glad you are pleased with your Record cast steel blade. They really are a pleasure to work with. Once its sharpened up can produce a finish on the wood that looks as if it has been polished.

They're lovely (and I've bought another one off ebay to replace the bodged Stanley blade/Record cap iron that my #5½ came with), but they're not invincible...



While planing RWD down for my bench, it was a case of I fought the knot and the knot won Second time that's happened too, last time the divot was even larger and actually broke off the blade instead of being bent over like this time.

Pine knots. They're like the tree's revenge for being cut down!

my3cents

I think you'll find that over time good steel naturally gets harder. As it gets harder it also gets more brittle. I've had some old chisels that took a great edge but would do the same.

timple23

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I dry mine off, rub down with a cloth first with WD40 and then a light coat of machine oil

what machine oil do you use or what other oil could be used?

also for a machine table with bits of rust, cause by tin cans being left on it, how can it be treated as i can't really dip it?

imakebiodiesel

Im interested in your post about steel getting harder with age, In 40 years of working with metal Ive never heard of that before.
The cast steel blades aren't indestructible and if you want to improve their resistance to damage, grind and hone a convex bevel at about 30°. It will be still be sharp enough to produce a fine finish especially if you strop a mirror finish as a final touch.

imakebiodiesel

Machine oils fall into two categories. The first is thinned oils that are really thick oil with a solvent mixed into them to lower the viscosity. This is typical of WD40 and 3 in one oil. These are good penetrating oils but as the solvent dries off a thick sluggish oil is left behind.
The second type is a genuinely thin oil and these are very difficult to produce. A genuine low viscosity mineral oil will tend to be combustible. In the 19th century sperm oil was the thin oil of choice but for obvious reasons you cant get it any more. Singer used to sell a thin mineral oil for their sewing machines but that is no longer available.
I make my own thin oil by transesterifying vegetable oil. This does not contain solvents and does not evaporate to form a thicker oil. it also has the big advantage that its not toxic or carcinogenic. It makes a great honing oil and I also use it to treat wood and protect metal surfaces. Im not interested in selling it but if anyone wants to try it ill send you a litre for just the postage.

Calahonda52

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

.... In the 19th century sperm oil was the thin oil of choice but for obvious reasons you cant get it any more.

LOL:D

imakebiodiesel wrote: »

I make my own thin oil by transesterifying vegetable oil.

Any links to the process?

dathi

Calahonda52 wrote: »

LOL:D


Any links to the process?

hint is in the name

Calahonda52

dathi wrote: »

hint is in the name

I looked here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transesterification
and it seems that TVO is in fact biodiesel so I suspect wont be doing it in the kitchen!

imakebiodiesel

The process is similar to biodiesel but the feedstock is different. In biodiesel I used waste vegetable oil and fats from restaurants but for honing oil I use virgin sunflower seed oil . The oil is heated to 60°C and a mixture of potassium hydroxide and methanol is added. The mixture is mixed for about an hour and then allowed to settle overnight. Next day it has separated into dark brown glycerol in the bottom and methyl esters on top. The esters are separated and dried to remove water and traces of methanol and are ready for use. Although the chemicals involved are toxic and caustic if handled sensibly there is no reason why anyone couldnt do this in a workshop (I agree, not a kitchen.)

The esters once dried are completely non toxic and have a very high flash point 169°C ie very safe. I use it as a honing oil, a penetrating oil, a general purpose lubricant for bicycles and machinery, for cleaning and protecting metal and for treating wooden tool handles. It is in no way similar to TVO which to my knowledge is a mineral hydrocarbon similar to kerosene with a flash point of 38°C . Tvo is both toxic and carcinogenic.
The glycerol byproduct is also very useful as a biodegradable lubricant, degreaser, coolant and hand cleanser.

Sparks

So just vegetable oil, caustic potash and white spirits and then mix and allow to settle?
I'm guessing you seperate the esters by the normal pouring off method, but how do you dry the esters?

dathi

Sparks wrote: »

So just vegetable oil, caustic potash and white spirits and then mix and allow to settle?
I'm guessing you seperate the esters by the normal pouring off method, but how do you dry the esters?

no methanol is a type of alcohol white spirit is a petroleum based paint thinner

Sparks

Huh. I always thought white spirit and meths were the same stuff. TIL I guess.

magicbastarder

meths is ethanol, with methanol added so it doesn't get hit by drink-related duties.
also added are the purple dye and smell so you know not to drink it. methanol and ethanol do different things to your body.

Sparks

magicbastarder wrote: »

meths is ethanol, with methanol added so it doesn't get hit by drink-related duties.
also added are the purple dye and smell so you know not to drink it. methanol and ethanol do different things to your body.

Yup, knew that bit, it was the white spirit I was confused about.

imakebiodiesel

Put 1 litre of warm but not hot vegoil into a 2 litre plastic bottle. Add the methoxide screw on the cap and shake for 10 minutes. Put somewhere to settle over night . Pour off the golden esters off into a sauce pan and heat to 9o°C in a very well ventilated area to dry off any excess methanol, allow to cool and use as you need it.
Methoxide recipe
8 grams of potassium hydroxide or 5 grams of sodium hydroxide ( drain cleaner)
200ml of pure methanol
premix in a glass or stainless steel vessel and dissolve the hydroxide crystals completely before adding to the oil.
WARNING methanol is inflammable and toxic, hydroxide are highly caustic and toxic , wear gloves and safety spec. Keep workspace well ventilated. Do this entirely at your own risk.

fergal.b

Wossack wrote: »

my grandad had an old multitool type machine years and years ago - not a shopsmith though.. any alternatives people are aware of?

I restored one of these it's an INCA combi tool maybe this is what your grandad had I think they were quite common back in the day. This one is still going strong I was working away on it today

imakebiodiesel

Lovely Job Fergal, Your workshop looks like mine, stuffed full of stuff I might need some day.
Its not often I get a quiet Sunday but the family was off up to Dublin and I decided to do a bit of woodturning. Ive been collecting Ward and Payne cast steel chisels for the last year or so and now have a set of five 1/4, ,1/2, 3/4, 1 and 1.1/4 inch. They have odd handles and some were cracked so that was my task today. I knocked the blades out of the handles and then sawed off the ferrules.
I have two woodworking lathes, an electric shopsmith and my old pole lathe built 24 years ago. When making handles I prefer the pole lathe, it has no chuck so you can turn right to the end of the workpiece and you can hang the ferrule on the turning centre and check it for a fit without removing the workpiece from the lathe.
I chose beech for this job, ash is more attractive but does have a tendency to split when hit with a mallet. Also I intended to dye these handles and beech takes stain really well.
One of the handles had a nice pattern so I decided to copy it for all of them
Ive noticed that the manufacturers tended to make smaller slimmer handles on the smaller chisels which looks right but my hands are the same size whatever size of chisel Im using so I decided to make the small sizes a bit bigger than the originals.
After a couple of hours of pleasant work I turned the handles, bored them and fitted the blades, gave them a coat of a dark stain and then a coat of my own oil. So now I have a set of chisels that look good as well as cut beautifully.