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Should the purchase of sex be legal or illegal in Ireland?

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  • 09-04-2016 6:33am
    #1
    freshpopcorn
    Registered Users Posts: 30,327 ✭✭✭✭


    I think I heard recently that the purchase of sex in France is now a criminal offence.

    Should the purchase of sex be legal or illegal in Ireland?

    Should the purchase of sex be legal or illegal in Ireland? 434 votes

    Legal!
    0% 0 votes
    Illegal!
    100% 434 votes


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    #2
    jones 19
    Registered Users Posts: 270 ✭✭jones 19


    I've never used a prostitute, but I really feel it should be legalised. At the end of the day if someone want to sell their bodies for sex and someone else's wants to pay for it they should be able to do business. The kicker is how to allow this without any abuse of either and the whole extraction of criminality from the process. How to make this this process of 2 people who want to have sex for money and the other for pleasure happen, I don't know. But its happening anyway so let's help both parties do it right.


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    #3
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    jones 19 wrote: »
    I've never used a prostitute, but I really feel it should be legalised. At the end of the day if someone want to sell their bodies for sex and someone else's wants to pay for it they should be able to do business. The kicker is how to allow this without any abuse of either and the whole extraction of criminality from the process. How to make this this process of 2 people who want to have sex for money and the other for pleasure happen, I don't know. But its happening anyway so let's help both parties do it right.

    Nailed every point.

    Theoretically; I'd support removal of all criminality associated. Practically, there are other problems that need to be tackled around trafficking, pimping etc.

    On balance, I'd probably support legalisation, even though I know this would lead to some exploitation. However, supporting to legalisation of any sort of sale of labour leads to exploitation.


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    #4
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    If something isn't legalized, it can't be regulated. It attracts low elements who don't care about being fair or decent because the law defines what they're doing as unjust and indecent.


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    #5
    The flying mouse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭The flying mouse


    I think it should be legalised, it's never going to away it's been around since time started and it's obviously a business that has many repeat clients.


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    #6
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    It is legal in Ireland. There are moves towards the Swedish model of making it illegal for the client.

    Personally I think we have it about right here. It's tolerated, brothels are illegal but a single girl working for herself is not. My issue is people who end up in the 'profession' not by choice. That's more of an issue of how we enforce law and order than anything else.


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    #7
    mailforkev
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    The laws here were basically made by ill informed politicians after lobbying from the nuns. More "moral" legislation.

    If one person wants to sell sex of their own free will and another wants to buy it then who cares. I'm never going to do it but it doesn't affect me in any way if you do.

    The trafficking angle is mostly bullsh1t too according to any reputable figures.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    mailforkev wrote: »
    The laws here were basically made by ill informed politicians after lobbying from the nuns. More "moral" legislation.

    It's legal cos the nuns pushed for it? Zoiks.

    I'm gonna ask for a source for that one.


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    #9
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,033 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    In France they aer not legalising it but they are focusing he crime on the client side rather than the service provider side.

    I watched a parliamentary select committee where they had 3 former prostitutes giving evidence. They said thr problems with the ild system is that the seller was in the wrong which made them extremely vulnerable. The police weren't on the side of the most vulnerable people in the situation which left them open to all kinds of abuse from pimps and clients. Bearings and rape are fairly common and this change means the prostitute can report abuse to the police without admitting a crime.

    If they aren't going to legalise it, placing the crime on the client is the best way to do it.


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    #10
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,033 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Deleted User wrote:
    It's legal cos the nuns pushed for it? Zoiks.

    Nuns have a bad reputation in Ireland because of the harsh way they ran the schools but generally they are the liberal thinkers in the catholic church. They are much more likely to do things like give out contraception and sex education in deprived areas, than their male counterparts. The Pope is constantly threatening the American nuns for doing things which are eminently practical and useful to people, but against catholic teaching.

    I haven't read that the nuns were behind this move but it's exactly the type of thing they would do.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    If they aren't going to legalise it...

    But...isn't it legal here?


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    #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    They are much more likely to do things like give out contraception and sex education in deprived areas, than their male counterparts. The Pope is constantly threatening the American nuns for doing things which are eminently practical and useful to people, but against catholic teaching.

    I fully agree...but it kinda sounded like he was denouncing the law and the nuns role... I'd be surprised if the nuns lobbied for the legalisation of prostitution in Ireland.


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    #13
    grogi
    Registered Users Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Nuns have a bad reputation in Ireland because of the harsh way they ran the schools...

    Only for schools? Magdalene Asylum must be a new term then...


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    #14
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,033 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    Deleted User wrote:
    But...isn't it legal here?

    OP was asking about the change they made on France which keeps it illegal buy places the crime on the buyer. As far as I know, it's legal in ireland under some circumstances.


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    #15
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Should be legal and treated as a legitimate job, nothing wrong with it and what consenting adults do is their own business.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Should be legal and treated as a legitimate job, nothing wrong with it and what consenting adults do is their own business.

    But...it is legal!

    It is illegal to solicit on the streets, to pimp etc.

    But the purchase of sex in Ireland is legit.


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    #17
    El_Duderino 09
    Registered Users Posts: 20,033 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    grogi wrote:
    Only for schools? Magdalene Asylum must be a new term then...

    Ah the point is that nuns have a bad rep in Ireland but in general they're the ones doing good without letting the religion get in the way. Look up the 'nuns on a bus'.


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    #18
    thattequilagirl
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,158 ✭✭✭thattequilagirl


    Legalise, regulate and tax... Same with drugs.

    It's going to happen one way or the other, I'd rather see women and men in regulated brothels than on the street. Come down extremely hard (no pun intended) on unregulated brothels and human traffiking.

    Prostitutes must go for regular STD tests.

    If there's no way to eradicate an industry, you may as well make it safer.


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    #19
    mailforkev
    Registered Users Posts: 1,785 ✭✭✭mailforkev


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's legal cos the nuns pushed for it? Zoiks.

    I'm gonna ask for a source for that one.

    http://www.ruhama.ie/about/our-board-of-directors/


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    #20
    MacauDragon
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭MacauDragon


    Most of the time sex is sold anyway.

    Just by a more elaborate and drawn out means than cash.

    Poon has value and valuable things naturally get exchanged for valuable things.

    It shouldn't be illegal to just cut to the chase.

    Why make the charade a legal precursor.


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    #21
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    Ah the point is that nuns have a bad rep in Ireland but in general they're the ones doing good without letting the religion get in the way Look up the 'nuns on a bus'.

    Nuns are filth, hiding behind that "we do it because we're good, we are" mask


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    #22
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,175 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    mailforkev wrote: »
    The laws here were basically made by ill informed politicians after lobbying from the nuns. More "moral" legislation.

    If one person wants to sell sex of their own free will and another wants to buy it then who cares. I'm never going to do it but it doesn't affect me in any way if you do.

    The trafficking angle is mostly bullsh1t too according to any reputable figures.

    Yes, I think the trafficking thing is a red herring. It may be going on at a tiny level but banning the entire sale of sex seems a huge overreaction and there's no guarantee it would have the slightest effect on any trafficking that is going on.


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    #23
    MacauDragon
    Registered Users Posts: 217 ✭✭MacauDragon


    El_Duderino 09 wrote: »
    In France they aer not legalising it but they are focusing he crime on the client side rather than the service provider side

    If they aren't going to legalise it, placing the crime on the client is the best way to do it.

    How about making both parties involved in breaking a law equally responsible.

    You know for equality. We're all equal after all. Or is equality too inconvenient in this case.


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    #24
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,309 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    It is legal and should stay that way as long as the one doing the selling is consenting


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    #25
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I can't think of a legitimate reason to ban two consenting adults from exchanging money for sex.


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    #26
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    I can't think of a legitimate reason to ban two consenting adults from exchanging money for sex.

    To be fair there are plenty. Morals of society*, the pervaisivness of sex as a comodity etc. The problem is that, IMHO at least, is that the harm criminalising either side does far outweighs them.


    *Morals, Smorals many say until something is done that offends them. I'll let you and others use their own imagination.


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    #27
    AryaStark
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭AryaStark


    mailforkev wrote: »

    The trafficking angle is mostly bullsh1t too according to any reputable figures.

    I am not sure about that? Do you have any links etc seems a bit mad


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    #28
    MarkAnthony
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,934 ✭✭✭MarkAnthony


    AryaStark wrote: »
    I am not sure about that? Do you have any links etc seems a bit mad

    There is trafficking, probably blown out of proportion, although 1 is one too many of course. The issue would be much bigger in regard to takeaways and domestic help but they don't involve genatalia so no one wants to ban that.

    The issue though in going th other way like Germany is quasi-trafficking where women have a fairly good idea of whats going to happen but do it anyway out of economic need. Not so comfortable with that tbh.


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    #29
    pq0n1ct4ve8zf5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,070 ✭✭✭✭pq0n1ct4ve8zf5


    Strazdas wrote: »
    Yes, I think the trafficking thing is a red herring. It may be going on at a tiny level but banning the entire sale of sex seems a huge overreaction and there's no guarantee it would have the slightest effect on any trafficking that is going on.

    Well any amount of trafficking that is going on should be a serious cause for concern. But it doesn't follow that criminalising the sale of sex will stop trafficking, quite the opposite I would have thought. It's like making puppies illegal rather than puppy farming.


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    #30
    melissak
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,873 ✭✭✭melissak


    While I am not a fan of prostitution I think we need to adopt a collective live and let live attitude and if people can be discreet and harm no-one the law has bigger fish to fry with its slim resources.


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    #31
    Speedwell
    Registered Users Posts: 3,809 ✭✭✭Speedwell


    I had a friend in college once who was pretty sexually liberated, but one time when the group of friends were all sitting around chatting and the legalization of sex work was the topic of conversation, she piped up, "I don't want prostitution to be legal; if it was legal I couldn't trust any man I was in a relationship with". Everyone's eyebrows stuck themselves to the ceiling and there was a moment of stunned silence.


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