Why we worry more about water charges than USC?

powerstar

Hi,

I am just wondering why we in this country worry more about water charges than USC.

We are paying more for USC than water charges. Water charges are only 160 or 260 per but most people pay over 1000 on USC per year.

And no one talks about USC , it's same with political parties during elections.

Yet there is massive protests about water charges.

Why is peoples attitude is different with USC.

Any thoughts.

racso1975

powerstar wrote: »

Hi,

I am just wondering why we in this country worry more about water charges than USC.

We are paying more for USC than water charges. Water charges are only 160 or 260 per but most people pay over 1000 on USC per year.

And no one talks about USC , it's same with political parties during elections.

Yet there is massive protests about water charges.

Why is peoples attitude is different with USC.

Any thoughts.

Cause not everybody pays USC yet everybody is expected to pay water charges.......

glued

Becuase there are some people in this country who feel as if they don't have to pay for anything.

9de5q7tsr8u2im

powerstar wrote: »

Hi,

I am just wondering why we in this country worry more about water charges than USC.

We are paying more for USC than water charges. Water charges are only 160 or 260 per but most people pay over 1000 on USC per year.

And no one talks about USC , it's same with political parties during elections.

Yet there is massive protests about water charges.

Why is peoples attitude is different with USC.

Any thoughts.

Thats because the water charges affect everyone and the USC affects people who earn over €13k so....

joe swanson

The idiots protesting come from the part of society that like to get everything for nothing. They dont have to worry about usc as they receive a generous weekly pay cheque from the govt for doing absolutely nothing.

Galwayguy35

Skangers don't have to pay the USC.

the_syco

Those that work pay the USC charges.
Those that work cannot really take days off during the week to protest.
No political party cares about the workers.
No political party wants workers to not pay tax.

Not everyone who protested the water charges was unemployed, but I'd say most of the people who got bussed around to the various places where IW were doing work were out of work!

No-one cares if the workers pay more tax, but ask those who get welfare and stuff for free to pay anything? Mass protests everywhere.

DavyD_83

No choice in USC, deducted at source.

If Water had been implemented in this way as a tax rather than an unenforceable utility charge it would not have been possible to refuse payment.

powerstar

LuckyDude12 wrote: »

Thats because the water charges affect everyone and the USC affects people who earn over €13k so....

Yes you are correct that every one doesn't pay USC.

But I think people pay USC they are paying much more than water charges.

USC supposed to be temporary measure and now it's become a part of regular tax.

mickdw

I think you will find that the majority of protestor are people who live free within the state. This water charge was one of the few charges applied to welfare households. These people wouldnt know what USC was.

OfflerCrocGod

Personally I'm looking forward to going back to subsidizing people with swimming pools, jacuzzis or massive leaks on their property. It's their fundamental human right to have me pay for it.

Birneybau

Stolen from Broadsheet.ie

c montgomery

People are idiots! Simples

Galwayguy35

Looks like we are stuck with the USC now seeing as idiots were saying during the election that it shouldn't be reduced at all.

The Randy Riverbeast

Wasn't the USC just another 2 taxes put together and renamed?

Speedwell

I am happy to pay my share to make sure everyone gets essential human necessities like water, ffs. But charging people for water if it means they have to cut other necessities out of their lives to pay for it, that's just wrong.

biko

powerstar wrote: »

Any thoughts.

That you should probably have explained what USC is, not everyone might know what you're on about

Muahahaha

joe swanson wrote: »

The idiots protesting come from the part of society that like to get everything for nothing. They dont have to worry about usc as they receive a generous weekly pay cheque from the govt for doing absolutely nothing.

theres a lot of us protesting by not paying. The message from the streets has already been sent loud and clear.

Galwayguy35

Speedwell wrote: »

I am happy to pay my share to make sure everyone gets essential human necessities like water, ffs. But charging people for water if it means they have to cut other necessities out of their lives to pay for it, that's just wrong.

Use it, pay for it.

Galwayguy35

biko wrote: »

That you should probably have explained what USC is, not everyone might know what you're on about

Anyone that works will know.

TheDoctor

How do people not know what USC is??

Pay more USC in a month than a years water charges.

Speedwell

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Use it, pay for it.

Well, that's a tremendously nuanced, helpful, and compassionate social policy you got there, pardner.

smash

The water charges just became the straw that broke the camels back. We're taxed to hell and it pushed many people over the edge. The support to scrap the charges and dismantle Irish water grew when the public were made aware of the extent to which the company is a complete shambles. Add to that the dodgy DOB stuff and then the usage of our property and motor taxes that have gone to support it.

Jack Killian

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Wasn't the USC just another 2 taxes put together and renamed?

Two supposed temporary emergency taxes.

All the other taxes are still there too.

Jack Killian

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Use it, pay for it.

Tell Dara Murphy that (re Garda cars & drivers) or yer wan who rang her boyfriend in Kenya.

Geuze

The Randy Riverbeast wrote: »

Wasn't the USC just another 2 taxes put together and renamed?

Yes, the health levy and the income levy.

The 2% health levy had been around for a long time.

The income levy was introduced during the crisis, as other tax revenues plummeted.

Geuze

smash wrote: »

We're taxed to hell and it pushed many people over the edge. .

Taxes in general in Irl are average, compared to other countries.

The top MTR at 50% approx kicks in awful early at 34k approx, that is true.

My parents pay 10% direct tax on 50k - very low.

smash

Geuze wrote: »

Taxes in general in Irl are average, compared to other countries.

The top MTR at 50% approx kicks in awful early at 34k approx, that is true.

My parents pay 10% direct tax on 50k - very low.

I've met Americans who'll state that their affective tax rate is around 9 or 10%. But they pay state and federal tax on purchases then. I've met people from Nordic countries who'll include all the taxes and vat etc on purchases on top of their income taxes and state an 85%+ affective tax rate. It all depends on how you look at tax.

Jack Killian

Geuze wrote: »

Taxes in general in Irl are average, compared to other countries.

The top MTR at 50% approx kicks in awful early at 34k approx, that is true.

My parents pay 10% direct tax on 50k - very low.

Stealth taxes are the killer in Ireland.

A TV licence alone is a 1% tax for someone on min wage.

Add car/fuel/home heating etc, LPT, plus VAT @ 23.5% (up from 21%) and take into account that anyone on that needs to spend it to get by and you have almost no adults paying less than 25 to 28% tax in some form or another.

Bar maybe adult kids living at home without chipping in.

Geuze

smash wrote: »

I've met Americans who'll state that their affective tax rate is around 9 or 10%. But they pay state and federal tax on purchases then. I've met people from Nordic countries who'll include all the taxes and vat etc on purchases on top of their income taxes and state an 85%+ affective tax rate. It all depends on how you look at tax.

Yes, no doubt, Nordic taxes are way higher than here.

US taxes are lower than here.

No VAT in USA, low-ish sales taxes, high local property taxes, low income taxes.

darkpagandeath

1 out of 10...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Anita Blow

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Looks like we are stuck with the USC now seeing as idiots were saying during the election that it shouldn't be reduced at all.

I'd argue they were realists, not idiots. It's absolutely clear by the state of our health service, school class sizes, cuts to the Gardai over the past couple of years that we can barely fund our public expenditure as it stands, let alone after we slash revenue by 4 billion

Jack Killian

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

As stated already, income taxes are only a small part of the story.

How do the indirect and stealth taxes compare ?

And more importantly, how do the services available in return stack up ?

questionmark?

Speedwell wrote: »

I am happy to pay my share to make sure everyone gets essential human necessities like water, ffs. But charging people for water if it means they have to cut other necessities out of their lives to pay for it, that's just wrong.

Can't someone else pay for it! Someone else someone else!

Speedwell

questionmark? wrote: »

Can't someone else pay for it! Someone else someone else!

You mean like me, paying my share, some of which goes to providing essential services to the needy? I'd rather pay more when I can afford it than force someone else who can't afford it to pay.

micks_address

I think fine gael did promise to scrap USC?

What I find funny is fine fail saying water charges are a red line issue... When they were the party in government signed up to the troika that we'd have them..

questionmark?

Speedwell wrote: »

You mean like me, paying my share, some of which goes to providing essential services to the needy? I'd rather pay more when I can afford it than force someone else who can't afford it to pay.

The vast majority of the country can afford the €160, split that into 52 weekly payments by standing order, for an essential service. There is far too many people paying nothing towards the running of society. I'm happy for my share to go to those that need actual help and also for running crucial public services for everyones benefit.

gti16v

Just to be clear before anyone gets annoyed that I'm a FF supporter. I'm not an FF supporter by any means as a boom time property buyer they have done nothing but take money out of my pocket during a very difficult time.

FF signed up to water charges as EU legislation states the government have to introduce a policy to ensure ever person in the country is encouraged to save water.

People are very wasteful of this service and unless water is turned off during certain hours people will water it. In addition to this its a huge drain on the taxpayer.

I don't see the issue with water charges at all, it's €160, my major problem is USC. I pay all my taxes and have had to pay for water for the last 10 years as I have a well which is a complete nightmare. The work involved in looking after it is ridiculous between changing filters, treating the water with chemicals and salt. On top of all that every time I turn on the tap it means that a water pump is running which isn't easy on the electricity bill. I also have to run heaters in the shed during the winter to stop the pump from bursting in cold weather.

All this has made me appreciate what I had when I had mains water.

I would gladly pay the €160 if I had water

Ray Palmer

questionmark? wrote: »

The vast majority of the country can afford the €160, split that into 52 weekly payments by standing order, for an essential service. There is far too many people paying nothing towards the running of society. I'm happy for my share to go to those that need actual help and also for running crucial public services for everyones benefit.

I would be happy to be paying extra for people who really need it too. That is why there is an allowance for people and social welfare payments.

The point is the whole purpose of the charges is to reduce use and waste. If you give people it free there is no incentive to use less.

To give you the mentality of some people I'll tell you about my neighbour. When we bought our 1st house it was an ex-corpo house and our neighbour was the grand daughter of the original tenant. She got the house by inheritance and would regularly complain the council didn't fix the house anymore.
Anyway you could see they had their green and brown bin in the back garden. We kept ours out front so we didn't need to bring them through the house an thought it weird they did. We soon realised they didn't use them. At the time their was no charge by lift or weight. The minute the charges for lift and weight came in the suddenly starting using them. When he was putting then green bin out one day and i was out the front he goes on about how the b**tards are making him do this and he has better thinks to do than sort out rubbish. He was and is unemployed.
So I was putting in a water butt on the house and the neighbours pops his head over the back wall and asks what I am doing. I explain how I am collecting the water off the roof to use in the garden. Starts going on about how I a mad hippy wasting my time and it is free. No explanation of conservation would change his mind. The only thing that will change how he behaves is if he is charged

FalconGirl

Look how IW was incorporated and the dodgy tendering process. That's not how business should be done and even moreso with Goverment involvement. Phil Hogans Dept of Environment couldn't even provide any minutes to meetings! It should be 100% transparent to the public after all it is our money. It was not transparent and the taxpayer is certainly not getting value.

That's where my opposition arises. Anyone who tars all water protesters as uneducated wasters in an absolute fool.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

howdoyouknow

Probably the fact that we are already paying for it.

howdoyouknow

gti16v wrote:

I don't see the issue with water charges at all, it's €160, my major problem is USC. I pay all my taxes and have had to pay for water for the last 10 years as I have a well which is a complete nightmare. The work involved in looking after it is ridiculous between changing filters, treating the water with chemicals and salt. On top of all that every time I turn on the tap it means that a water pump is running which isn't easy on the electricity bill. I also have to run heaters in the shed during the winter to stop the pump from bursting in cold weather.

gti16v wrote:

I would gladly pay the €160 if I had water

It's only €160 at present if Irish water goes ahead as planned you'll be lucky to be paying less than 4 times that per year

Hercule Poirot

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, no doubt, Nordic taxes are way higher than here.

US taxes are lower than here.

No VAT in USA, low-ish sales taxes, high local property taxes, low income taxes.

Nordic taxes are higher but they get so much more in return. Was talking about this recently with some guys from Denmark and they were saying that all college goers get a weekly subsidy (like a wage - not means tested), across the board and their health system is pretty much free.

So there is an upside to it - they were more than happy with what they got in return for their high taxes.

listermint

howdoyouknow wrote: »

It's only €160 at present if Irish water goes ahead as planned you'll be lucky to be paying less than 4 times that per year

This in a nutshell, those 'plums' that think 160-260 is nothing in comparison will be delighted im sure when their yearly bill is 800 - 1000 Euro per year for water on top of paying for everything else they work hard for.

Let the celebrations begin when that sinks in.

Some folks refuse to see the forest for the trees.


But yeah.... 160 Euro that'll keep the billing agency IW going.



LOL

smash

howdoyouknow wrote: »

It's only €160 at present if Irish water goes ahead as planned you'll be lucky to be paying less than 4 times that per year

In a few years people will be paying around €350 month to cover electricity, gas or oil, water and propert tax.

listermint

smash wrote: »

In a few years people will be paying around €350 month to cover electricity, gas or oil, water and property tax.

At least, sure we have the highest electricity prices in Europe we celebrate the Arse off the ESB success story here in this country whilst we pay huge amounts for electricity and the regulator never says no to an increase.

Gotz to pay for the ESB Union dont ya know.

Up next we now have health increases across the board for private health insurance and vradkar still talking about private hospitals taking up all the slack.


We are forever getting less and less as each year goes by and paying more.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Because people who shout the loudest generally have the most time on their hands. In order to pay USC you have to go to work. This means you have less time to March, protest or set up anti government rallies. This means you're used to being rode so you take it.

With the water charges people who are exempt from any personal responsibility it seems have plenty of time to demand their rights.

buried

I've being paying for water in my local group scheme for over 20 years but the reason I worry about the corporate entity known as "Irish Water" is because it could begin the disaster approach to privatise one of the last resources we have. Water is being privatised all over the planet because global corporations know H2O's current and future value, especially to countries where water droughts are becoming more commonplace and extreme. Give us a referendum that states our water and also our farmland will never be given over to any corporate or government entity outside our own island, unlike our gas resources which were given away for a bag of magic beans to the Shell corporation.

For Forks Sake

howdoyouknow wrote: »

Probably the fact that we are already paying for it.

Nein.

Go again.

http://economic-incentives.blogspot.ie/2015/03/paying-twice-for-water-not-really.html?m=1