Vegans

Kev W

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Some one was clearly at the top of the herbivore food chain mate.

No, I understand what you were implying, it just doesn't make sense. Anyway it seems you were being fairly judgemental yourself, just going by your story, so you're not on the strongest footing to call others out on the same.

uvox

djflawless wrote: »

Apart from the usual jokes such as 'how do you know if someones vegan' blah blah,

Surely evolution would have taught people killing other people was also not necessary. But ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

On subject of how you know someone's vegan? Same as how you know if someone works for Google in Dublin or has read James Joyce's Ulysses: They tell you without asking.

Irish vegans are for real.
Irish vegetarians are people who only eat animals that eat grass. The new à la carte Rice Crispie.

gozunda

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

Some one was clearly at the top of the herbivore food chain mate.



Don't look at me. I only eat them. Some other bloke can worry about their rearing, trading and slaughtering.

Alf - you just admitted to enjoying "a nice lump of steak" on a thread about veganism. You are now enemy no. 1.

Im afraid some people deliberately wont get the humorous bit about the cow and your one being in competition for food no matter what.

Anyway the one who made the remark to you in the pub was a right ignorant wagon.

Alf Stewart.

Kev W wrote: »

No, I understand what you were implying, it just doesn't make sense. Anyway it seems you were being fairly judgemental yourself, just going by your story, so you're not on the strongest footing to call others out on the same.

That's two of us not making sense.

Dont think you understand the concept of minding ones own business, and bothering no one.

Shenshen

gozunda wrote: »

Check it out - but lumping vegans and vegetarians together could get you in trouble. The poor vegetarians are getting a rough ride recently. 'Veganism' is very very trendy. I wonder how many of threads are put up by actual vegans tbh.

Got the figures from the vegetarian society of Ireland.

And I think these threads are just an indication the people can't enjoy being in a majority unless they get to make themselves feel persecuted by an evil minority somewhere.

gozunda

Shenshen wrote: »

Got the figures from the vegetarian society of Ireland.
And I think these threads are just an indication the people can't enjoy being in a majority unless they get to make themselves feel persecuted by an evil minority somewhere.

But the threads nothing to do with 'vegetarism". And I'm not promoting 'veganism' either but any moral minority can be an equal pain in the ase

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

gozunda wrote: »

I'm not talking chasing and catching a cow in the shed. I'm referring to our cow Bessie in the field or even going to the mart.

'Bessie' is not pondering the meaning of existence, existentialism and the finality of death.

That is a separate matter to being fearful of strange people or circumstances.

Why fear though? Because they're afraid of someone new? Why? They don't know that person, they might be scared the new person will hurt them, or the new environment isn't safe (the ring in a Mart for an example)
So they might not lay in a field thinking about the day they'll be murdered, but rest assured, they're not calm and relaxed in the final hours and moments of their lives. They're frightened. Dress it up whatever way you like.

Shenshen

gozunda wrote: »

But the threads nothing to do with 'vegetarism". And I'm not promoting 'veganism' either but any moral minority can be an equal pain in the ase

There are no numbers on how many people in Ireland are vegan. Around 4% are vegetarian, vegans would form a small sub-set of that.

I'm sure they can be a pain, but I have to admit that if they really are that omnipresent and permanently annoying and preachy, I admire their energy. We're talking about significantly less than 4% of the entire population, yet they seem to be able to agravate people enough to start a thread a week about them just on this forum.
That's some serious effort they must be putting in to being preachy and annoying.

gozunda

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why fear though? Because they're afraid of someone new? Why? They don't know that person, they might be scared the new person will hurt them, or the new environment isn't safe (the ring in a Mart for an example)
So they might not lay in a field thinking about the day they'll be murdered, but rest assured, they're not calm and relaxed in the final hours and moments of their lives. They're frightened. Dress it up whatever way you like.

I think we agreed on the fear bit. Strange people, strange surroundings and yes Bessie the cow may experience fear.

But the point remains that Bessie does not 'conceptualise' about death in the abstract and definitly doesn't develop anxiety thinking about been 'murdered' at some future date either :rolleyes:

Bacchus

Yay! Another "lets talk about vegans" thread. That can only mean one thing, there's a "lets talk about people on the dole" thread just around the corner!

gozunda

Shenshen wrote: »

I'm sure they can, but I have to admit that if they really are that omnipresent and permanently annoying and preachy, I admire their energy. We're talking about significantly less than 4% of the entire population, yet they seem to be able to agravate people enough to start a thread a week about them just on this forum.
That's some serious effort they must be putting in to being preachy and annoying.

Are we talking vegetarians or vegans here? The problem is we don't really know 'who' is or are starting these threads. You can also have a snowball effect where an issue becomes momentarily popular due to people talking about it. Discussion should never be preachy and annoying if it is then it's not discussion.

Kev W

All I know for sure is I hear/read vastly more whinging about vegans than from vegans.

darkpagandeath

Bacchus wrote: »

Yay! Another "lets talk about vegans" thread. That can only mean one thing, there's a "lets talk about people on the dole" thread just around the corner!

A diet is a choice though.

kneemos

Kev W wrote: »

All I know for sure is I hear/read vastly more whinging about vegans than from vegans.

How about them carnivores eh.

gozunda

Kev W wrote: »

All I know for sure is I hear/read vastly more whinging about vegans than from vegans.

I would disagree. Like Alfs account of his meal some are all too ready to whinge about what others do is wrong according to their belief system. On Boards I noticed that both the op and others have had vegans make negative remarks about meat eating on threads relating to meat. So no its not unusual.

The Soup King

Alf Stewart. wrote: »

I was sat down in a pub beer garden one fine sunny afternoon, enjoying a beer and a nice lump of steak, with chips, and all the trimmings. Was minding me own business, taking in the sights and sounds, enjoying me beer and me burger. Bothering no one. Minding me own business.

Next thing I know, this big lard ass, eco warrior plonks her self down on the table next to mine with her dreaded, crusty looking (presumably) boyfriend. The two of em with massive plates of fresh green salad.

The two of em start giving me evils and a look of disgust across from their table, and I'm at a loss as to what the fcuk I've done wrong, or to offend them.....

Next thing I cop it, the female of the species is wearing a t-shirt that proudly exclaimed she was a vegan.

She watched me cut into a nice juicy piece of steak, raise it to me mouth, and just before I bit into it asked me if I knew how that animal I was chewing on died?

I just looked at her and her equally overweight soap dodging mate tuckin into their fresh mountains of salad and said yeah you probably starved it to death you fat bastard.

I'm vegan myself and I would never talk to somebody this way. I'm always happy tto chat about it with an interested person but when people do things like this its just rude and counterproductive.

JustShon

I find vegans on social media and vegans in person to be vastly different.

Found out a friend of mine is vegan recently because I followed her on instagram. All of the conversations we'd had in person and it never came up, we'd never had a meal together so I'd no chance to notice it. Only found out because her instagram is full of #vegan #veganpower etc etc.

I find that goes for a lot of personality traits / hobbies / interests / ideologies though. Religious people on my Facebook are always posting prayers but when I meet them in real life they barely stop what they're doing for the Angelus.

I only once had a vegetarian (not even a vegan) preach at me about eating meat in real life (well it was more some lunatic in my primary school class trying to throw away my ham sandwiches)

GLaDOS

People who bitch and moan about vegans/vegetarians are far more annoying.

The vast majority of veggies in my experience have no desire to proselytize and just want to enjoy their falafel.

RhubarbCrumble

There's a girl who goes to the same gym as me who's a vegan. She.is.HEAD.WRECKING!!! If she wants to be a vegan that's absolutely fine by me, but she needs to keep her opinion to herself and stop lecturing everyone else about how 'meat is murder' etc. She was at it again during the week and all I could think of was Frankie Boyle when he said "Yes, there IS a vegan option. You can **** off!!" I was very tempted . . . . .

kneemos

LexieOnRale wrote: »

Why fear though? Because they're afraid of someone new? Why? They don't know that person, they might be scared the new person will hurt them, or the new environment isn't safe (the ring in a Mart for an example)
So they might not lay in a field thinking about the day they'll be murdered, but rest assured, they're not calm and relaxed in the final hours and moments of their lives. They're frightened. Dress it up whatever way you like.

They're well looked after for however many years they have. They're a product at the end of the day.

Don't know about cows but I have seen sheep being slaughtered,they appear oblivious except for a minute or two when the guy ahead gets their throat cut .They appear agitated at that stage but can't say what they feel or if it's just a flight instinct.

2011

gozunda wrote: »

A commercial venture run by Twin chefs David and Stephen Flynn

From the website etc

Correct and no I do not work for them nor am I stataing that I agree with everything they say.

I was just recounting my own experience, not trying to promote any a business venture (If this is what you are implying). I am not trying to preach to others either.

smash

RhubarbCrumble wrote: »

There's a girl who goes to the same gym as me who's a vegan. She.is.HEAD.WRECKING!!! If she wants to be a vegan that's absolutely fine by me, but she needs to keep her opinion to herself and stop lecturing everyone else about how 'meat is murder' etc. She was at it again during the week and all I could think of was Frankie Boyle when he said "Yes, there IS a vegan option. You can **** off!!" I was very tempted . . . . .

I'm sure she has no issue when lads eat her!

2011

Big meat eater myself - even to the point of catching and/or killing my own from fishing to wild rabbit to keeping things like chicken and geese. Never once to date had any issues from Vegans. And my intention to murder bunnies has mainly elicited nothing more than a raised eyebrow from people who hear about it.

What meat I do buy I tend to source as ethically as is in my power to do so. Where and when I can.

I have spotted the occasional full color adverts they have bought time on walls for - usually around the theme of attempting to make you feel bad about cow children being taken too early away from their mothers. Only been spotting them in the last months though - I assume they are a new thing?

Other than that never had an issue with any of them. And when the subject comes up on boards ever - and I do attempt to ascertain the moral arguments against the eating of meat - I never get any. Rather - I am trotted out all the arguments against the morality on how we currently farm and treat the meat we eat. Which is a different subject entirely - but they conflate them all the same.

2011 wrote: »

At the end of the course my cholesterol was 4.89 and I had lost 7kg (but still too heavy). During the 4 weeks I could eat as much as I wanted, but it was a "plant based" diet. But no meat, no dairy and only some breads. That was 2 months ago. I have been on that diet since. I sleep better, my skin is clearer, I had more energy and I feel better.

Fun - and I hear the _exact_ same reports of weight loss and general well being and improved appearance from people doing - for example - the LCHF diets where you can also eat as much as you want - predominently meat, dairy and fat based things - while avoiding Carbs.

So in general I suspect the particular diet one uses has little to do with the weight loss and the well being - so much as having a change of life style - a routine - a new set of recipes and ideas - and probably parallel focus on things like drinking the correct amount of water, moving away from ultra processed foods in favor of fresh and self made things, excercise - and so forth.

A lot of diets seem to benefit from making people eat more intelligently, moderately and freshly - but hide their benefit under the guise of removal of one food type or another - or the addition of some magical product such as cayenne pepper diets.

But the existence of vastly similar testimonials across vastly different diet plans - does not really lend credence to the efficacy of any one particular diet type.

Kev W

gozunda wrote: »

I would disagree. Like Alfs account of his meal some are all too ready to whinge about what others do is wrong according to their belief system. On Boards I noticed that both the op and others have had vegans make negative remarks about meat eating on threads relating to meat. So no its not unusual.

I'm talking about my own experience, which is not for you to agree or disagree with. I also never said that vegans never whinge, just pointed out that I've seen them whinged about far more.

gozunda

ScienceNerd wrote: »

People who bitch and moan about vegans/vegetarians are far more annoying.

The vast majority of veggies in my experience have no desire to proselytize and just want to enjoy their falafel.

Why is one type of biatching more annoying than another? On Boards I have see several incidences of negative/narky vegan comments on meat related threads generating further reaction and comment.

le serpent tout entier

gozunda

Kev W wrote: »

I'm talking about my own experience, which is not for you to agree or disagree with. I also never said that vegans never whinge, just pointed out that I've seen them whinged about far more.

Ok. I understood that as an opinion. In my experience I have seen examples of both. However I do not include vegetarians in that view.

eezipc

JustShon wrote: »

I find vegans on social media and vegans in person to be vastly different.

I would like to edit this post if that's ok....

I find PEOPLE on social media and PEOPLE in person to be vastly different.

Minderbinder

Why do some vegan or vegetarian meals have their food look like meat? I often see sausages for example. I know the sausage shape is not owned by meat companies but it is associated with meat. I don't understand why they'd want to eat something that looks like meat.

Also in Alf's story I don't understand if that woman was so offended by him eating steak, why would she got to that restaurant? Surely by supporting an enterprise that makes its money from slaughtering animals you are going against your vegan principles.

Alf Stewart.

The Soup King wrote: »

I'm vegan myself and I would never talk to somebody this way. I'm always happy tto chat about it with an interested person but when people do things like this its just rude and counterproductive.

To be clear, I don't mind if someone's a vegetarian/vegan/carnivore whatever else

What I do mind however, is being interrupted, in my own private leisure time, and have my dinner choice questioned.

Your lifestyle, your choice. My lifestyle, my choice.

Minderbinder

Minderbinder wrote: »

Why do some vegan or vegetarian meals have their food look like meat? I often see sausages for example. I know the sausage shape is not owned by meat companies but it is associated with meat. I don't understand why they'd want to eat something that looks like meat.

There could be any number of reasons for this. I could not list them all. But I could stab at a couple examples.

Cultural conformity would be one. We live in a society that is heavily skewed towards meat eaters. Meals and their appearance follow general trends and formulas. For someone stepping outside that majority there is something to be said for maintaining the appearances of conformity rather than standing out. The OP is about in your face militant vegans - but that is one end of a contiuum at the other end of which are the people who simply want to make their personal choices entirely under the radar.

Another example however is taste and desire. A lot of people who choose not to eat meat are doing so for moral reasons - but they still desire and crave the experience of eating meat every bit as much as you or I might. So while abstaining from meat they still want to simulate as closely as possible the actual experience of eating meat. And remember taste and flavour are very subjective experiences. The buds on our tongue are only part of the experience. Aroma and appearance of food _greatly_ influence our experience of the taste and sensation of eating it. Especially if those attributes evoke memory in us. So simulating the experience of eating meat can very strongly affect the taste and experience of eating substitutes.

Lack of imagine or desire to avoid change is another reason. When someone moves from eating meat to not - they often have years of experience of meals and there is safety and comfort in the familiar. If you have been eating "meat and two veg" for years - many simply want to maintain that narrative - and to move away from eating meat without too drastically changing the format or formula of their basic day to day meals. If you have been eating sausages for years for breakfast - then there is strong reason to want to continue to do so going forward.

And not to mention the sausage format itself is just convenient in many ways.

So there is a few reasons. I hope it helps. I heard a _great_ interview recently with one of the CEOs of those new companies that have found ways to grow meat in the labs. Now while they are years maybe decades away from growing a T-Bone - what they are producing is certainly moving in the right direction.

And polls suggest that people against eating meat - would quite often switch to eating these factory grown "real" meat alternatives. As I said above - a lot of people who do not eat meat - do _want_ to do so - but do not on moral or ethical grounds. But put a slab of meat in front of them that is sourced or created in a way that addresses those moral or ethical issues - and they will tuck in with the same gusto and zeal as I would!

Minderbinder wrote: »

Also in Alf's story I don't understand if that woman was so offended by him eating steak, why would she got to that restaurant? Surely by supporting an enterprise that makes its money from slaughtering animals you are going against your vegan principles.

Alas people looking to feel - and in this case loudly express - moral indignation or offence - tend not to put too much actual thought into it. In that paragraph alone you probably but 10 times more thought into it that the ignorant loud mouth the OP had the misfortune to meet did.