Triangle tyres - how are these legal?

Boskowski

CiniO wrote: »

Can you tell us where does this "superior braking power" come from?

What advances in brakes technology has happened in the last 15 years?

Well in fairness, it wasn't invented during the last 15 years, but 15 years ago the majority of cars would not have had ABS. Now they do. (They do, don't they?)

Jesus.

CiniO wrote: »

Can you tell us where does this "superior braking power" come from? What advances in brakes technology has happened in the last 15 years?

I'm not a mechanic Cinio but I'd be fairly sure the brakes now on average would be better.



(I also wouldn't tow a horsebox with a 1.4L Golf )

visual

CiniO wrote: »

Can you tell us where does this "superior braking power" come from?

What advances in brakes technology has happened in the last 15 years?

The only advancement I can see is ABS but that technology is more than 15 years old. Electronic stability control is iffy as some older cars had it and some newer cars don't.

The only improvement i can see is in the premium tyres development over last 15 years but that can be thrown out the window when the likes of triangle tyres are fitted.

grogi

Jesus. wrote: »

I'm not a mechanic Cinio but I'd be fairly sure the brakes now on average would be better.

Yet no matter how good the brakes, they are limited by the grip between the surface and...

grogi

Boskowski wrote: »

Well in fairness, it wasn't invented during the last 15 years, but 15 years ago the majority of cars would not have had ABS. Now they do. (They do, don't they?)

Yes, ABS is mandatory for like last 15 years or so... But ABS does not shorten the braking (it is not its purpose) and in some conditions it even makes it longer.

Jesus.

grogi wrote: »

If only physics was taught at schools...

Nothing to do with physics Grogi. I'm talking about a car with better brakes than another.

CiniO

Boskowski wrote: »

Well in fairness, it wasn't invented during the last 15 years, but 15 years ago the majority of cars would not have had ABS. Now they do. (They do, don't they?)

Well, I'd risk saying that vast majority of cars from 2001 had ABS as standard.
It's a legal requirement on cars in EU from 2004, but very few cars were released without it in preceeding years.

Jesus. wrote: »

I'm not a mechanic Cinio but I'd be fairly sure the brakes now on average would be better.

But why?
There was no technology advance in braking afaik since 2001.
We still use discs, pads, and on smaller cars the drums.
Still exactly the same technology.

(I also wouldn't tow a horsebox with a 1.4L Golf )

And I would. Anytime.
Even though I never owned a horse.

visual wrote: »

The only advancement I can see is ABS but that technology is more than 15 years old. Electronic stability control is iffy as some older cars had it and some newer cars don't.

All new cars in EU must have ESC (ESP or whatever you call it) now.

And ABS as above - it was present in most cars from 16 years ago, but it doesn't really lower the braking distance in most cases.
In my experience - on dry tarmac - it doesn't.
On ice - it doesn't.
On wet tarmac - it does lower braking distance a bit.
On gravel, snow or sand, it actually enlarges braking distance very often.

When I drive in snow, I usually try to turn off my ABS if possible (usually by taking the fuse off). I feel the car much better without it in such conditions.

Esel

The nut behind the wheel is often still the deciding factor.

Part-worn premium tyres over new the other things every time for me.

Unless the other things are a fully licenced clone of a previous generation premium - i.e. totally identical to the original apart from the name. Thinking e.g. Hankook Ventus Prime.

Esel

ABS is not designed to shorten braking distance. It is designed to allow steering under severe braking.

the_syco

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I price them on mid range rubber and they just refuse. Take their car back and do another 5k on their slicks until they start losing air and then they buy ditchfinders... from the nearest outlet to where they got their puncture and not from me.

How much are ditchfinders? Would usually have spent about €200-€250 for a set of four wheels in the past. Cars would have cost around 5-6k each, if it makes much of a difference.

Goose81

Jesus there are some very very thick , scabby people on this thread. The tires are half the price for a damn reason because they contain more plastic than rubber and are inferior in every possible way both component wise and manufacturing.

If you don't believe independent tests and just say its brand marketing its clearly you trying to trick yourself out of what you should be thinking which is that your family or whoever drives or is in the car are worth less to you than the 100 quid it costs in difference to put decent tires on the damn car.

Same people will get an 40 euro nct check at a mechanics and claim its as good as a service, just scabby bastards at the end of the day let them crash, hopefully won't be in to any of us.

power pants

Goose81 wrote: »

Jesus there are some very very thick , scabby people on this thread. The tires are half the price for a damn reason because they contain more plastic than rubber and are inferior in every possible way both component wise and manufacturing.

If you don't believe independent tests and just say its brand marketing its clearly you trying to trick yourself out of what you should be thinking which is that your family or whoever drives or is in the car are worth less to you than the 100 quid it costs in difference to put decent tires on the damn car.

Same people will get an 40 euro nct check at a mechanics and claim its as good as a service, just scabby bastards at the end of the day let them crash, hopefully won't be in to any of us.

very offended with your name calling I am neither "thick" or " "scabby" I have a well paying job which requires intelligence.

wishing people to crash is very crass too, I would never wish you and your family to crash their car resulting in fatalities. That would be sick

*Kol*

Goose81 wrote: »

Jesus there are some very very thick , scabby people on this thread. The tires are half the price for a damn reason because they contain more plastic than rubber and are inferior in every possible way both component wise and manufacturing.

If you don't believe independent tests and just say its brand marketing its clearly you trying to trick yourself out of what you should be thinking which is that your family or whoever drives or is in the car are worth less to you than the 100 quid it costs in difference to put decent tires on the damn car.

Same people will get an 40 euro nct check at a mechanics and claim its as good as a service, just scabby bastards at the end of the day let them crash, hopefully won't be in to any of us.

I can't afford the €60 per tyre difference between mid range and top of the range tyres for my car. I do hope I don't crash as a result of that....

power pants

I think some of the forummers have questionable driving skills and respect on the road to other users. This and this alone will cause crashes far more than decent cheap tyres on a car.

I remember that time there was a boards meet up and they were speeding, dangerous driving and putting other innocent drivers lives in danger,

But it was ok, they all had expensive tyres on so they could drive like racing car drivers safe in their own knowledge of smugness and superiority

monkeysnapper

Let's put it out there, if someone could do a poll that would be spiff .

Whats the most you would be willing to pay for a tyre taking into account everything that's been discussed .

I'll start , I'll pay up to 90 max.and always pay around 70 ussualy .

Saying that I don't know what I'm paying for brand wise .

Boskowski

I just got 2 new ones. 84 a corner for Contis plus a tenner for fitting. Falken or whatever would have been only a tenner or so less. Having said that I had to get the Contis from camskill. Locally I was quoted as much as 140 for them.

Jesus.

power pants wrote: »

I think some of the forummers have questionable driving skills and respect on the road to other users. This and this alone will cause crashes far more than decent cheap tyres on a car. I remember that time there was a boards meet up and they were speeding, dangerous driving and putting other innocent drivers lives in danger, But it was ok, they all had expensive tyres on so they could drive like racing car drivers safe in their own knowledge of smugness and superiority

There's a lot of truth in that. There's many's a driver who'd be far safer on Triangles than others on Premiums. A lot of guys saying the former are death traps are driving too hard. I see it all the time. Breaking hard, flying up to lights and then jamming on. Buzzing around town like men possessed even though they're not getting there any quicker than the next man.

Just because you may well be a poor driver doesn't mean everyone else is also.

millington

Jesus. wrote: »

There's a lot of truth in that. There's many's a driver who'd be far safer on Triangles than others on Premiums. A lot of guys saying the former are death traps are driving too hard. I see it all the time. Breaking hard, flying up to lights and then jamming on. Buzzing around town like men possessed even though they're not getting there any quicker than the next man.

Just because you may well be a poor driver doesn't mean everyone else is also.

Have to agree! How people are finding grip limits on any new tyres on a daily basis is beyond me

I don't even know what tyres are on my daily but they're not branded and I would have to be pushing very hard (in terms of road driving) to experience any loss of grip :eek:

smash

millington wrote: »

Have to agree! How people are finding grip limits on any new tyres on a daily basis is beyond me

I like to do donuts in the forecourt of Advance Pitstop to make sure the new tyres are safe.

grogi

millington wrote: »

Have to agree! How people are finding grip limits on any new tyres on a daily basis is beyond me

I don't even know what tyres are on my daily but they're not branded and I would have to be pushing very hard (in terms of road driving) to experience any loss of grip :eek:

I don't know if my ABS, ESP and airbags are working. But I like to know they are there in the very rare case I needed them.

fancy pigeon

millington wrote: »

Have to agree! How people are finding grip limits on any new tyres on a daily basis is beyond me

I don't even know what tyres are on my daily but they're not branded and I would have to be pushing very hard (in terms of road driving) to experience any loss of grip :eek:

Not even about pushing it to the limits, but a lot of modern technoboxes have plenty of driver aids that compensate the harder compound tyres to a certain extent.

In regards state vehicles, next time you see the army out and about pulling trailers behind the GPV's (storage, artillery, field guns etc) see what tyres are on the trailer.... One could argue they wouldn't be going fast, used feck all or that the trailer wheels aren't driven though

It would be interesting to see if this were in the 90s, where a lot of cars had naff all assistance to the driver (I know this isn't possible, but the next best thing is next...). Or even in the Russian dashcam vids, I'd be interested to see what tyres and condition they were in when a skid on the motorway/traffic happens.

Just purely for my own curiosity and not to get a trouser tent at the expense of others displayed in this ditch locating thread

josip

Jesus. wrote: »

Nothing to do with physics Grogi. I'm talking about a car with better brakes than another.

Jesus

josip

Bloody touch screen.

Jesus, what are the characteristics of the "better braking systems" that you think would make the tyre choice less deterministic in the stopping distance?
I think ABS can be excluded since it's been mainstream since the 90s?

grogi

josip wrote: »

Jesus

This comment is, albeit unintentionally, spot on..

Jesus.

Josip, average folk driving on triangles are the least of your worries. Its the lunatics that end up in ditches, going sideways around roundabouts, sliding into the backs of people and having 'near death' experiences while blaming it all on triangles are the the ones you should watch out for.

Goose81

power pants wrote: »

very offended with your name calling I am neither "thick" or " "scabby" I have a well paying job which requires intelligence.

wishing people to crash is very crass too, I would never wish you and your family to crash their car resulting in fatalities. That would be sick

Obviously it doesn't require that much intelligence, where exactly did I wish people to crash? Absolutely no where.

irish bloke

That auld Triangle, went jingle-jangle

screamer

Now what's that saying about a bad workman again...........

millington

millington wrote: »

Have to agree! How people are finding grip limits on any new tyres on a daily basis is beyond me

I don't even know what tyres are on my daily but they're not branded and I would have to be pushing very hard (in terms of road driving) to experience any loss of grip :eek:

You don't have to be pushing very hard at all to find the grip limits in cheap tyres, particularly on a car with a bit of power just trying to pull out of a junction on a wet road will leave you sitting still with the traction control light blinding you as the tyres just can't get the power down.

There is a vast vast difference between premium tyres and budget tyres, this difference becomes more apparent if you drive around at a reasonable pace rather than at walking pace which some people must be doing if they are not noticing a difference.

On my current car it had cheap crap tyres when I bought it (put on by the place selling it) they were terrible in the wet, understeering on roundabout, abs kicking in with any amount of reasonable braking etc and worst of all probably when they do lose grip its unpredictable you don't know how they are going to react from one time to the next. I then put mid-range tyres on (hankooks) which are a well respected tyre and were a massive improvement on the budget tyres and at my last tyre change I went for Goodyear Eagle F1s. Even in comparsion to the Hankooks the Eagle F1s are far superior never mind the budget crap, the wet grip is hard to believe at times they just grip and grip and grip and then when they do let go its in a very calm and predictable manner that can be easily controlled so you can comfortably push them to the limit and know you aren't in for any surprises.

As for people who don't know where the limit of grip is or what happens when you exceed it, what happens when it happens all of a sudden and you aren't used to it? Far better to be used to it and be calm and controlled if it happens when you weren't intending it.

Bigus

It's proving very hard to find a non tyre company vested interest independent test but here's one for starters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_j-2W2uZ8c