Are Luas drivers justified?

Disgruntled Badger

Are the Luas drivers justified in striking over lower than expected pay rises?

I think most PAYE workers would be delighted with any form of pay rise right now.

What I don't understand is , if they are not happy with their wage, why don't they just find new jobs at higher wages, if they are so highly qualified to warrant 50k + per year? There are airline pilots on less than these guys.

L1011

I suspect they're being lead by a few influential, delusional leaders - shop stewards and SIPTU officials probably.

Leonard Hofstadter

L1011 wrote: »

I suspect they're being lead by a few influential, delusional leaders - shop stewards and SIPTU officials probably.

I don't know, SIPTU recommended acceptance on the grounds that it was the best possible deal available.

To answer the OP's question, as I've said in the other thread about this matter, absolutely not, they should sack every single one of them.

Stheno

Qualified airline pilots on less than 42K? Seriously?

strandroad

No, they receive a very decent package for what is a responsible but not exactly rocket science job. Pretty much anyone who has the ability to drive a car could learn their job within several weeks.

Atlantic Dawn

If they started work at say €30k at a time when the DART drivers were on that same €30k and now say the DART drivers were on €45k then yes I would support them. Their claims are outlandish for a role they fully understood the wages of when they started knowing how they compared to DART drivers. Having the strike this Sunday will annoy the public no end and give them zero support.

mickoneill31

Stheno wrote: »

Qualified airline pilots on less than 42K? Seriously?

This hasn't been updated since 2010
I presume the salarys have increased.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/CityJet

This one has pay from 2016
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs/Stobart_Air

The scales are bigger alright. But I'd imagine being the captain of an aircraft is a bit more complicated than being captain of a luas.

esforum

I supported their right to take industrial action and collective negotations on the previous threads and I still will defend a workers rights however I cannot honestly agree with someone on a decent wage turning down 18% over 3 years.

I expected the union to start high and end up settling but I never expected them to obtain 18% so I really cant see them getting much more

foggy_lad

I don't think they are justified, Gardai are on half what the luas staff are on and have to do months of training and much more learning laws and rules etc

We are not just dealing with the drivers as all the staff have rejected the best offer they should never have been offered!

I would let them strike and then dismiss any staff member that fails to turn up for work at their rostered time(allow a few minutes grace), If this leaves the service unworkable then put all remaining staff on protective notice and immediately start to train new staff to replace those who clearly don't want to work!

OleRodrigo

Yes they are, I support them.

Most of the Luas drivers I have seen are all mid-30s and older. The wage they are looking for is appropriate for their age, when you consider the costs of an average priced house in Dublin and kids.

Secondly, there should be an adjustment from the idea that salaries should be based on skills, at least in certain sectors, and that it should encompass work experience and stage of life.

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well and it should increase according to time served.

mystic86

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well and it should increase according to time served.

?

Victor

Stheno wrote: »

Qualified airline pilots on less than 42K? Seriously?

**cough**

Disgruntled Badger wrote: »

50k + per year? There are airline pilots on less than these guys.

**cough**

yer man!

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Yes they are, I support them.

Most of the Luas drivers I have seen are all mid-30s and older. The wage they are looking for is appropriate for their age, when you consider the costs of an average priced house in Dublin and kids.

Secondly, there should be an adjustment from the idea that salaries should be based on skills, at least in certain sectors, and that it should encompass work experience and stage of life.

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well and it should increase according to time served.

Money paid to an employee should be based and appropriate to the skill and conditions of the job. Age and circumstance has nothing to do with it. You wouldn't be giving a 39 year old male that stocked shelfs in the local supermarket 40k a year because he wants a house and have kids. If you're not happy with your wage do something else.

OleRodrigo

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Yes they are, I support them.

Most of the Luas drivers I have seen are all mid-30s and older. The wage they are looking for is appropriate for their age, when you consider the costs of an average priced house in Dublin and kids.

Secondly, there should be an adjustment from the idea that salaries should be based on skills, at least in certain sectors, and that it should encompass work experience and stage of life.

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well and it should increase according to time served.

You think wages should be based on a person's age?
What if some of the 30 something year old drivers are single & childless? Should they get less than married drivers with a mortgage??

TheDoc

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Yes they are, I support them.

Most of the Luas drivers I have seen are all mid-30s and older. The wage they are looking for is appropriate for their age, when you consider the costs of an average priced house in Dublin and kids.

Secondly, there should be an adjustment from the idea that salaries should be based on skills, at least in certain sectors, and that it should encompass work experience and stage of life.

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well and it should increase according to time served.

Nice to see the public service way of thinking alive and kicking!

yer man!

Also need to consider the starting salary of a doctor in Ireland, €30k, they work far more than anyone employed with Transdev, they literally have people's lives in their hands, they work unsociable hours, spend 5 years of their lives training and then to have a Luas driver earn far more than them is an absolute insult.

Victor

OleRodrigo wrote: »

Most of the Luas drivers I have seen are all mid-30s and older. The wage they are looking for is appropriate for their age

Rather agist, isn't it?

Secondly, there should be an adjustment from the idea that salaries should be based on skills, at least in certain sectors, and that it should encompass work experience

You do realise that work experience is a skill?

and stage of life.

"Fnck the new drivers"? "Fnck the 20-somethings? "Cripple anyone who doesn't have children yet"? "Let's keep 20-somethings on the dole on €100/week, so Luas drivers can be on 10 times that"?

Same for train and bus drivers. All public servants should be paid well

Not everyone can be "well paid". For everyone over median wage, there is someone under median wage.

and it should increase according to time served.

Forever?

OleRodrigo

yer man! wrote: »

Also need to consider the starting salary of a doctor in Ireland, €30k, they work far more than anyone employed with Transdev, they literally have people's lives in their hands, they work unsociable hours, spend 5 years of their lives training and then to have a Luas driver earn far more than them is an absolute insult.

How is it an ' absolute insult '? A doctor will earn far more over the course of his career than a Luas driver.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

Nice to see the public service way of thinking alive and kicking!

Not all of them!!

yer man!

OleRodrigo wrote: »

How is it an ' absolute insult '? A doctor will earn far more over the course of his career than a Luas driver.

A doctor is skilled, a luas driver is not. Playstation requires more skill than what a luas driver does, and I'm talking a really basic game!

OleRodrigo

Not everyone can be "well paid". For everyone over median wage, there is someone under median wage.

My point is, stage of life should be a factor in certain sectors rather than just level of skill.

Victor

OleRodrigo wrote: »

My point is, stage of life should be a factor in certain sectors rather than just level of skill.

Why?

Why should an employer have an input into people's personal lives? Should workers have to report to their employer every year as to how many children they have. Whether they're married? Should they have to report to their employer that their marriage has broken down? Could they be sued for fraud if they didn't tell their employer they got divorced?

PLL

This sense of entitlement people have in Ireland is getting out of hand.

Vyse

OleRodrigo wrote: »

My point is, stage of life should be a factor in certain sectors rather than just level of skill.

I don't think so. Why should you be paid for based on stage of life? You should be paid for based on experience/ education.

Zaph

OleRodrigo wrote: »

My point is, stage of life should be a factor in certain sectors rather than just level of skill.

And what extra does a Luas driver bring to his job at 40 that he didn't at 30 other than being 10 years older?

Gatling

OleRodrigo wrote: »

My point is, stage of life should be a factor in certain sectors rather than just level of skill.

So basically reverse the situation where the most skilled and educated get better paid vs someone who comes in to work does a bacic no challenging role should be better paid based on age or similar

Canadel

yer man! wrote: »

Also need to consider the starting salary of a doctor in Ireland, €30k, they work far more than anyone employed with Transdev, they literally have people's lives in their hands, they work unsociable hours, spend 5 years of their lives training and then to have a Luas driver earn far more than them is an absolute insult.

What about the ceo of transdev who is most likely earning several multiples of what a doctor is paid starting off? Or did I miss that thread..

yer man!

Canadel wrote: »

What about the ceo of transdev who is most likely earning several multiples of what a doctor is paid starting off? Or did I miss that thread..

My point was as the news reported, luas drivers complained as being front line staff and were working unsocial hours and deserved more pay. CEO of any company is going to be earning far more than the lowest levels.

Gatling

Canadel wrote: »

What about the ceo of transdev who is most likely earning several multiples of what a doctor is paid starting off? Or did I miss that thread..

He would happen to run a business making 100s of millions world wide and be responsible for 83,000 staff you would expect to be earing more than an entry level junior doctor

Canadel

yer man! wrote: »

My point was as the news reported, luas drivers complained as being front line staff and were working unsocial hours and deserved more pay. CEO of any company is going to be earning far more than the lowest levels.

And what you said was that "they (doctors) work far more than anyone employed by Transdev", which includes the ceo, yet the ceo most likely earns several multiples of what a new doctor does. Why isn't some of the criticism being held for the ceo?

Canadel

Gatling wrote: »

He would happen to run a business making 100s of millions world wide and be responsible for 83,000 staff you would expect to be earing more than an entry level junior doctor

Good for him. And he needs those guys who drive the trams to make that business viable. And here we are.