Breaking - explosions at Brussels Airport **Mod warning in post 1**

Bob24

So there are no subways, no trains, no air-planes serving Brussels and mobile phone networks are saturated.

Isn't there an issue when what is supposed to be the capital of the EU can be paralysed that "easily"? What if a foreign state with many more resources than a few crazy terrorists was to decide to attack the city?

Superhorse

The sheer amount of heads in the sand type postings on here is frightening.

Atlantic Dawn

ThisRegard wrote: »

Is it ever anything but insane?

If you watched it all day you would certainly have to go in to the Trump camp

munster87

Superhorse wrote: »

The sheer amount of heads in the sand type postings on here is frightening.

Where is your head?

Alun

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

The explosion on the metro, was it in a carriage or in the station?

On the Belgian news they were saying it was in a carriage.

walshyn93

I'm hoping I can put an end to all this "small minority" crap with the following.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

In 1938, just after Kristallnacht, the psychologist Muller-Claudius interviewed 41 randomly selected Nazi Party members on their attitudes towards racial persecution. Of the interviewed party-members 63% expressed extreme indignation against it, while only 5% expressed approval of racial persecution, the rest being noncommittal. A study conducted in 1933 had then shown that 33% of Nazi Party members held no racial prejudice while 13% supported persecution. Sarah Ann Gordon sees two possible reasons for this difference. First, by 1938 large numbers of Germans had joined the Nazi Party for pragmatic reasons rather than ideology thus diluting the percentage of rabid antisemites; second, the Kristallnacht could have caused party members to reject Antisemitism that had been acceptable to them in abstract terms but which they could not support when they saw it concretely enacted.

Apparently the vast majority of Nazi's weren't anti-semitic. Does that really matter?

A_Sober_Paddy

weldoninhio wrote: »

If I remember reading correctly another German won it in 1938

Austrian no?

screamer

thomil wrote: »

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Much of this thread has been a cesspit of bigotry and hatred. The irony is that terrorists, like the monsters who carried out these attacks, thrive on divisions, they thrive on an "us-vs.-them" mentality, it is their best recruiting tool. "See, they don't want you, they hate you and your family. Join us, you're welcome here, and we'll help you strike back at these people who've been doing nothing but insulting you and shoving you around!"

So by painting all muslims as terrorists, or all people from one region, as terrorists, those "staunch defenders of western civilisation" are actually acting as accomplices of the attackers, aiding and abetting them. Too bad they aren't perceptive enough to recognise the cruel irony.

And integrating them allows people like Al Abdeslam to commit attricities and be sheltered by the other Muslim civilians of Belgium and go about his business with impunity for months......... perhaps this is realky what they want, perhaps their modus operandi has changed given the naieve liberalism in europe. Bleeding heart Europe will let you in, cry racism, whatever you need to do and when they've done all they can for you, then stab them in it.......

JPNelsforearm

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He

Was

Born

There!

So what? Being born doesnt confer cultural and genetic similarity with your host population. If a donkey is born in a stall you keep stallions in, does that make him a stallion?

Jamie Heaslip was born in Israel/Palestine, does that make him an Arab?

Autonomous Cowherd

Rest in Peace to the victims of the horrible Brussels attack, and strength to all injured victims and families of bereaved. It is another shocking piece of news.

Though we may be inclined to become distressed at this apparent rise of barbarity in Europe I think we should keep things in some sort of perspective.

Between 1968 and 1998 (the official period of the troubles in Northern Ireland) owing to guerrilla warfare and state brutality over 3,500 people were slaughtered and tens of thousands were brutally injured. Out of a population averaged over the decades of 1.7 million this is 0.2% of people dying.

If we transpose this statistic to Europe, which has a population of over 740 million, then one and half million innocent Europeans would have to die over next 30 years in guerrilla warfare to match the toll. That would be about 50,000 persons per year. This is unlikely to happen. (Though the number is suspiciously close to the number of innocent Iraqis who have been slaughtered by Empire forces in the Middle East since 2001. )
Note - in Northern Ireland in spite of historical atrocity an uneasy peace holds, and life has changed dramatically.

The unpalatable fact is that there has long been this type of unequal warfare between vicious states and vicious guerrilla fighters. We have not entered a new age of barbarism...an old age of savagery simply continues. Although statistically one could say that the world is safer now than heretofore.

None of which mitigates against a natural feeling of sadness and horror for the people caught up in this attack.

Atlantic Dawn

Some of the "experts" getting interviewed on Sky News remind me of that Speed III episode of Father Ted where Dougle is stuck on the milk float with the bomb and the priests meet to come up with outlandish solutions to the problem.

Nerdlingr

TheHillOfDoom wrote: »

The explosion on the metro, was it in a carriage or in the station?

The guardian have a picture on their live feed of a carriage destroyed, some of it pixelated out. Seems to be it was detonated in the carriage (i could be wrong though!!).

dav3

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Exactly my point. There is only "one" type of native American the rest are settlers of various extractions. As this lad in Belgium was, he was a settler, an import, not a Belgian.

How far do we go back? 10, 100, 1000 years, the beginning of time?

We all originated from Africa. It's going to get fairly crowded when the entire world deports itself back there. I don't think us Irish will fair very well in the heat though.

That_Guy

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Touchy, facts hurt, a northern white rhino has more value, crying about humanity when there are what, 7 billion on earth, nearly a half a billion arabs on earth? Cry me a river.

What facts? You waded in here with your disgusting bile saying that they can blow each other faces off.

And now you're saying a rhino has more value than a human's life??

Jesus wept. You really are posting some idiotic things.

b_mac2

Good to see left wing tactics in full effect here, shouting racist and bigot to any facts or reasoning pointed at them.

wes

walshyn93 wrote: »

I'm hoping I can put an end to all this "small minority" crap with the following.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

Apparently the vast majority of Nazi's weren't anti-semitic. Does that really matter?

Your comparing a political party and a Religion. One is an organization with a single leader, the other is composed of various sects, with varying beliefs and no single leader.

The fact that you think both are the same is rather hilarious.

gobsh!te

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He

Was

Born

There!

Do you know if he was Muslim by any chance?

ThisRegard

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

If you watched it all day you would certainly have to go in to the Trump camp

The irony being that Fox News and Trump are at odds with each other, they've attacked him for what they describe as having a sick obsession with Megyn Kelly. You know someone has extreme right wing views when Fox News has a falling out with you.

JPNelsforearm

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

So what? Being born doesnt confer cultural and genetic similarity with your host population. If a donkey is born in a stall you keep stallions in, does that make him a stallion?

No, but if the stall is in Belgium it would make him Belgian.

Timberrrrrrrr

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

So what? Being born doesnt confer cultural and genetic similarity with your host population. If a donkey is born in a stall you keep stallions in, does that make him a stallion?

Jamie Heaslip was born in Israel/Palestine, does that make him an Arab?

So ALL immigrants (or children of immigrants)should be moved out of every country in the world and sent back to their cultural homes?

iguana

There are no easy answers about how to solve terrorism like this. Stupid knee-jerk reactions about not allowing refugees and kicking out European muslims will not solve this. They will in fact make it worse. At the same time ignoring the fact that religious communities can use their scriptures to isolate people from the wider community of the country they live in and radicalise them into terrorists. That the level of tolerance we show in Europe sometimes, often goes beyond tolerance and is actually special treatment and it makes our society look weak to people who benefit from seeing that as a weakness.

I believe that one of the first steps in solving this kind of issue is an absolute elimination of allowing special treatment for religious belief. People can be whatever religion they want, they can hang out and worship with those of their own religion and worship together if they do so in a way that bothers nobody else. But beyond that, no special treatment. If you can't wear a head covering in an official/id photo, there is to be no exception for religious reasons. If headcoverings are forbidden in certain premises, like banks, there is to be no exception for hijabs or turbans. If you want to get your son circumcised, tough, if it's medically necessary that's different but if it's because it's written in some millenia old document, then no, your son keeps his foreskin. Have an issue with women wearing trousers and short skirts? Keep it to yourself, if groups start to harrass women on the streets of certain neighbourhoods then the police need to be a massive on foot presence in those areas until the message gets through that this shít won't be tolerated. Does your workplace forbid necklaces? Then no you can't wear your cross, Star of David, pentagram, whatever. This isn't discrimination, it's removal of special treatment. Want religious schooling for your kids? Then pay for it yourself, it's not the state's job to pay for religious indoctrination of children. Not any religion, no matter how it has always been done. And if a religious group does fund a religious school, or a family homeschools for religious reasons, then Tusla/Ofsted/appropriate body of that country need to be performing ongoing checks and ensuring that the children know the difference between the worth of modern scientific theory versus best guess of an imaginative bronze age dweller when it comes to explaining the universe. No special permission for religious call to prayers to breach noise pollution laws or given special place in state broadcasts. No opening a business and thinking your religion gives you special permission to ignore discrimination legislation. Everyone is to be treated equally. Genuinely equally. Because allowing religious groups special status is a part of what has led to this. It's not the only cause, but it has played it's part and if we want to have any chance of stopping such attacks, we need to eliminate every cause. Tolerance for private belief should be absolute, special treatment needs to end.

Alongside that we have to, as nations, stop contributing to the complete and total breakdown of societies where many of these immigrants have come from. (First and foremost because it's fúcking murder and the people of Syria deserved to be allowed live peaceful lives in their home country. And while the conflict there has many causes, Europe and America have played their part in causing and worsening it.) Even though the terrorists are usually second and third generation immigrants and themselves European citizens, conflicts involving their 'brethren' are used as justification. The massive destabilisation of the Middle East can't not have knock on effects for Europe. So implementing real ways to help people live safely in their homes is necessary to stopping what is happening here. Ceasing weapons sales, smart sanctions against despotic regimes and no more carpet bombing which results in significant 'collateral damage.'

TheHillOfDoom

What is worrying is that some pundit of some description said that ISIS won't claim responsibility until all has concluded. I.e. that all attackers have been killed or escaped and all attacks concluded. Somewhat worrying!

Eugene Norman

thomil wrote: »

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Much of this thread has been a cesspit of bigotry and hatred. The irony is that terrorists, like the monsters who carried out these attacks, thrive on divisions, they thrive on an "us-vs.-them" mentality, it is their best recruiting tool. "See, they don't want you, they hate you and your family. Join us, you're welcome here, and we'll help you strike back at these people who've been doing nothing but insulting you and shoving you around!"

This is tosh. Belgium in particular has bent over backwards to accommodate Muslim immigrants. The hostility comes from a radicalisation paid for by Saudi mosques, or other radical preaching. Often it's one guy radicalised in a family of non-radicals. It's parents shocked by their radical offspring, siblings shocked by their siblings atrocities. If it were discrimination that caused this then all the family would radicalise.

So by painting all muslims as terrorists, or all people from one region, as terrorists, those "staunch defenders of western civilisation" are actually acting as accomplices of the attackers, aiding and abetting them. Too bad they aren't perceptive enough to recognise the cruel irony.

That's what you want to believe because 1) it allows you to feel we can do something about Islamic radicalisation by being nice (cups of tea maybe?) 2) it attacks westerners which is ok politically and allows you to blame somebody ( in this case the victims) 3) you get to virtue signal.

Muslims in Europe are radicalised by an interpretation of the Koran. It's not because nasty westerners are being nasty on the Internet. If discrimination caused terrorism then the Islamic nations would be under siege from Christian, gay and female terrorism.

A Primal Nut

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Anyone watching Fox News now, it's rather insane, makes this thread look very reasonable.

Yeah the audacity of a news outlet to have a non-liberal editorial line.

gobsh!te

b_mac2 wrote: »

God to see left wing tactics in full effect here, shouting racist and bigot to any facts or reasoning pointed at them.

Lefties are true bigots....they are intolerant of anyone that has any opinion other than their own.

A real left winger would be more concerned by the victims of sexual attacks on women and murder of gay than the perpetrators of such attacks.

The cheerleaders for Islam are a bunch of scumbags that have made it so that women in many parts of Europe can no longer walk alone at night.

Keep welcoming this, in the long run defending the psychopathic religion of Islam just makes them look more and more stupid.

LONG LIVE EQUALITY FOR WOMEN AND MEN AND RESPECT FOR LGBT...........AND **** ISLAM

Mod: Banned

conorhal

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Should immigration on the scale it is happening now (open borders) be stopped?

Yes it should

Should we send someone who has lived here for 30 years away to another land simply because their parents moved here in the 70's?

No we shouldn't.

Except I didn't say that. I was responding to your suggestion that migrant's shouldn't be blamed, I'm not blaming them. I am however saying that we should not accept them and then 30 years from now suffer exactly the same consequences that previous waves of immigration have generated. My point was simply that there is nothing we can do about people who's parents moved here in the 70's, there is absolutely a lot that can be done to avoid compounding that mistake, starting with not doubling down on it.

As far as I'm concerned we should, under the idiotic 1 for 1 agreement that Merkel unilaterally forced on the EU we should make that swap only for Christian refugees, those poor buggers clearly have no future in the Middle East.

FA Hayek

biko wrote: »

So did anyone claim the bombings yet? Or are we just wildly blaming muslims?

Well its not the Vegan society who was behind this in fairness. Unless you have another suspect?

Christy42

gobsh!te wrote: »

Only 3% of Germans were Nazis....now p!ss off

Some of us are sick of this sh!t

You aren't the only one sick of it but some of us don't want to launch a recruiting drive for more attackers. Come up with workable solutions, in all likelihood these attacks are not because we did or didn't let in too many refugees. The attackers were likely in Europe for generations so using immigration policy to stop them feels like it misses the issue by a country mile. Since the attitude of blame the Muslims won't help stop future attacks and will in fact make them more likely you can see why people oppose it. We need to find a way to ensure immigrants are integrated with the population at large. If we stop groups from becoming isolated or isolating themselves then we can stop them from being recruited. This is the only way that can work. As ever education is the key.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

What does that even mean? Of course, every "American" is a settler, they are of mixed European stock, so a first generation Irish immigrant of Irish parents is Irish, no matter what.

How far back do we go? Or are we all African? What if an Iranian and a German have a child in America. What nationality is that child now?

BunkMoreland

Is it OK so say that Muslims did this yet? I got banned for a month for saying it was Muslims a few hours into the Paris attacks.

jon1981

Death toll so far confirmed as 21 in the metro , speculation of 13 in the airport, looks like this could get into higher numbers :mad:

http://news.sky.com/story/1664542/twenty-dead-in-brussels-metro-station-blast