Dublin 9th most congested city of 200

Muahahaha

Harristown depot is pretty dead for passengers, I've used it twice and both times I was the only person getting on the 83 at the depot.

pclive

Did they offer a park and ride service at Harristown when it first opened?

markpb

pclive wrote: »

Did they offer a park and ride service at Harristown when it first opened?

From what I can remember, no. A number of routes which terminated in Finglas and Ballymun were extended up there to facilitate driver breaks.

LXFlyer

pclive wrote: »

Did they offer a park and ride service at Harristown when it first opened?

No not at all.

Carawaystick

lxflyer wrote: »

He is not specifically talking about hotels - really he shouldn't have mentioned them as they are irrelevant - airport hotels always supply courtesy coaches.

He is actually making the point that there is a complete lack of public transport from large areas across North Dublin to the Airport, the single largest employer in North Dublin.

In terms of Dublin Bus, the Airport is only served by the 16 and 41 along the N1 corridor (and the 33/41b/41c with a walk from the main road) and the 102 to Malahide, Portmarnock and Sutton.

There are no orbital bus services to any of the other major suburbs across north Dublin which is frankly scandalous.

There are several bus routes terminating at Harristown depot (4, 13, 27b, 83 and 83a). Surely some (if not all of them) should actually go to/from the airport, along with the 33a and 33b (instead of Swords)?

I was distracted by the hotel point, as the hotel mentioned trades on providing a park & ride service, as does the Carlton Airport which is actually on the r132, which has Dublin Busses to the airport.

The existing services to Harristown should clearly serve the Airport.

The 33a was planned to be changed to go Airport Skerries instead of Swords Balbriggan, but it was held up as part of the tendering for routes issue.

The Core routing diagram clearly shows the lack of any link from the Airport to the northeastern suburbs. I presume this is a policy issue with either DB or the NTA? and they haven't simply failed to check census data to see where all the people working in the Airport live?

There's also the times of the first busses to the Airport, the 16 or 102 would be of no use to staff starting work at 6am. The first 102 arrives at the airport at noon on Sundays :eek:

trellheim

Would it not be somewhat better to put in rest facilities at Dublin Airport for drivers this might go some way to having a proper bus interchange at the airport. Where to put it though !

LXFlyer

trellheim wrote: »

Would it not be somewhat better to put in rest facilities at Dublin Airport for drivers this might go some way to having a proper bus interchange at the airport. Where to put it though !

Well that really is something that DB/NTA/DAA would need to address.

It would also help if DAA were to forego the charges that they levy on PSO bus routes for operating at the airport (every bus operator has to pay to use the facilities there).

This in itself flies in the face of any pretence of encouraging public transport use.

Sam Russell

Remember the Minister for Transport's response to the 25m passenger at Dublin Airport in 2015 was to say they need more car parks, but no mention of DN or the Clongriffin/Airport Dart extension. We certainly know where his heart lay.

Muahahaha

lxflyer wrote: »

Well that really is something that DB/NTA/DAA would need to address.

It would also help if DAA were to forego the charges that they levy on PSO bus routes for operating at the airport (every bus operator has to pay to use the facilities there).

This in itself flies in the face of any pretence of encouraging public transport use.

Never knew there was a PSO levy on buses servicing the airport, would even the likes of the 41 route have to pay that or is it only for long distance/express services? Would this mean that the 41 route is not very profitable for DB compared to the 747 and other express services charging €7 to get into town rather than what perhaps €3 for the 41?

Pretty bad either way, one semi state charging another with the passenger paying for it through higher fares.

LXFlyer

Muahahaha wrote: »

Never knew there was a PSO levy on buses servicing the airport, would even the likes of the 41 route have to pay that or is it only for long distance/express services? Would this mean that the 41 route is not very profitable for DB compared to the 747 and other express services charging €7 to get into town rather than what perhaps €3 for the 41?

Pretty bad either way, one semi state charging another with the passenger paying for it through higher fares.

Every bus/coach operator has to pay for using the bus stop facilities at Dublin Airport.

Personally I think that PSO services, given their nature, should be exempt from this as it does not encourage developing extra bus services to/from the airport.

It might be arguable as allowable for commercial services, but I do think its somewhat daft for PSO routes.

Dyr

Sam Russell wrote: »

I live on the No 4 route and never knew what or where Harristown was, nor that it was a destination that facilitated the drivers. I suppose that is reasonable given the length of the route but the route ought to be extended to, or rerouted via, the airport since it is so close to Harristown.

How many passengers are typically on the bus after the bus passes the M50 going towards Harristown?

feck all, yo get a few people getting on or off past the M50 but that's it.

The 4 would'nt be able to deal with the volume of passengers it would pick up if it went to the airport. It's already a basket case of a route

Sam Russell

Bambi wrote: »

feck all, yo get a few people getting on or off past the M50 but that's it.

The 4 would'nt be able to deal with the volume of passengers it would pick up if it went to the airport. It's already a basket case of a route

If it got more passengers, the I would assume it would get more buses.

What makes it a basket case of a route?

alane20

As a regular user of the m3 motorway from navan to Mountjoy square, I curse the fact that the rail link from navan to connelly is just rusting away, previous government planners need hanging

Muahahaha

lxflyer wrote: »

Every bus/coach operator has to pay for using the bus stop facilities at Dublin Airport.

Personally I think that PSO services, given their nature, should be exempt from this as it does not encourage developing extra bus services to/from the airport.

It might be arguable as allowable for commercial services, but I do think its somewhat daft for PSO routes.

I'd agree with that.

Have you any ideas how they calculate the levy at the airport? Is it a percentage of the ticket price or a flat rate for all operators, irrespective of the fares they are receiving? It would seem harsh for the 41 route to be paying the same as Aircoach for instance.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

If it got more passengers, the I would assume it would get more buses.

What makes it a basket case of a route?

The route would need a new schedule, more buses and more running time to ensure reliability.

That's a given if you extend the route.

LXFlyer

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd agree with that.

Have you any ideas how they calculate the levy at the airport? Is it a percentage of the ticket price or a flat rate for all operators, irrespective of the fares they are receiving? It would seem harsh for the 41 route to be paying the same as Aircoach for instance.

I'd say it is a flat fee - I'm not sure.

Sam Russell

lxflyer wrote: »

The route would need a new schedule, more buses and more running time to ensure reliability.

That's a given if you extend the route.

I accept that.

Do DB adjust routes to take account of usage? I saw a 27x this morning at 9am on its way to UCD with three passengers on it.

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

I accept that.

Do DB adjust routes to take account of usage? I saw a 27x this morning at 9am on its way to UCD with three passengers on it.

Well where did you see it? I'm guessing somewhere between Ballsbridge and UCD?

Bear in mind that bus could have been completely full before that, and that an awful lot of people would have got off between the city centre and Ballsbridge.

Sam Russell

lxflyer wrote: »

Well where did you see it? I'm guessing somewhere between Ballsbridge and UCD?

Bear in mind that bus could have been completely full before that, and that an awful lot of people would have got off between the city centre and Ballsbridge.

Exactly right - at Tesco Merrion Centre turning up Nuttley Lane.

However, the point is - do DB adjust schedules depending on passenger numbers - either up or down?

trellheim

As a regular user of the m3 motorway from navan to Mountjoy square, I curse the fact that the rail link from navan to connelly is just rusting away, previous government planners need hanging

Yeek. I'm not sure you'd be happy with a slow trip to Drogheda and then Drogheda into Connolly ? ( off topic I know ) Have you beein using the P&R at Dunboyne ?

Dyr

Sam Russell wrote: »

If it got more passengers, the I would assume it would get more buses.

What makes it a basket case of a route?

It covers a huge distance, it serves two universities. It's prone to being flash packed by the roaming gangs of tourists that seem to only travel in groups of 80 or so


That's before you get to the dublin bus shenanigans, running the buses in convoys, taking buses out of service for portions of the route and then the opposite, running the bus but taking it off RTPI.

You could throw more buses at the route but it won't solve the problems

Also, you'd have to throw a LOT of buses at the route given the sparsity of its weekend timetable

Vic_08

Muahahaha wrote: »

I'd agree with that.

Have you any ideas how they calculate the levy at the airport? Is it a percentage of the ticket price or a flat rate for all operators, irrespective of the fares they are receiving? It would seem harsh for the 41 route to be paying the same as Aircoach for instance.

The coach park is charged by the hour like the carparks.

All the other bus bays are sold to the operators at long-term rates.

They had some sort of highest-bidder system some years ago; that is why Aircoach took over the prime spots directly outside T1 Arrivals, they paid more for them than DB.

The charges for the spots are considerable, I have no doubt it would be a big disincentive to run more routes in there.

The entire bus provision is a joke in DUB, crappy open-air roadside stops that they charge a fortune for and a remote coach park that is used as a de-facto bus station for smaller operators . The space outside T2 is very inefficiently laid out, a proper bus station should have been part of the T2 build with bays and indoor waiting area.

Something like the combined Rail/Bus station in Manchester would be appropriate for the number of scheduled bus/coach services DUB has, then again MAN is owned by the local authority who consider providing services for their constituents whereas DAA just see the bus/coach operators as a profit centre.

trellheim

A smart man in Department of Transport would countercharge DAA by the number of private vehicle journeys taken - that would soon soften their cough. For a supposed semistate they are rapacious sharks

LXFlyer

Sam Russell wrote: »

Exactly right - at Tesco Merrion Centre turning up Nuttley Lane.

However, the point is - do DB adjust schedules depending on passenger numbers - either up or down?

If a route doesn't work or there are capacity issues yes of course they would. That's what Network Direct was about.

But there really hasn't been much scope for change in recent years given the lack of funding - we are only beginning to see changes to schedules again after the recession.

But I don't see that applying in this case - running the bus in service to UCD makes sense, as it can then do a short working from there into the city centre on either the 39a or 46a before heading back to the garage.

As I said above you have to look at it in context.

Sam Russell

lxflyer wrote: »

If a route doesn't work or there are capacity issues yes of course they would. That's what Network Direct was about.

But there really hasn't been much scope for change in recent years given the lack of funding - we are only beginning to see changes to schedules again after the recession.

But I don't see that applying in this case - running the bus in service to UCD makes sense, as it can then do a short working from there into the city centre on either the 39a or 46a before heading back to the garage.

As I said above you have to look at it in context.

Fair enough. (- or is it fare enough).

Dyr

lxflyer wrote: »

If a route doesn't work or there are capacity issues yes of course they would. That's what Network Direct was about.

Cost savings is what network direct was about

LXFlyer

Bambi wrote: »

Cost savings is what network direct was about

Well do you not think reducing unnecessary duplication and excess capacity falls under that?

If you're trying to tell me that there wasn't excess capacity then you're living in a different world.

Now I didn't and don't agree with the weekend cutbacks to the 4, but there were plenty of other changes that were correct, such as integrating bus departures along certain corridors, and reducing unnecessary duplication of routes.

maninasia

Funding is available from different sources to support infrastructure investment. Last government were fools.

http://en.people.cn/n3/2016/0324/c90000-9034596.html