GAMSAT 2017

Celestial12

Guidance wrote: »

Does anyone intend to go to the UCC open day this Saturday?

I didn't even realise it was on. Are you going? I won't be around, so I'll miss it. I'm going to the one in UCD though.

Did anybody go to the one in RCSI?

ilovesmecounty

I intended to get to the one in RCSI but was working that weekend and I couldn't sneak out at the right time. Their new building was officially launched a few weeks ago and it looked very flash and snazzy.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2017/1018/913319-rcsi/

Limk88

Hi all, I'm new to the thread but have enjoyed reading your posts over the last few months   I'm currently studying, well procrastinating from studying really, for the March 2018 exams.  It's my first sitting and to say I'm nervous is an understatement!!! Heading down to the UCC open day on Saturday.  Looking forward to meeting some of you

Limk88

Hi all, I'm new to the thread but have enjoyed reading your posts over the last few months   I'm currently studying, well procrastinating from studying really, for the March 2018 exams.  It's my first sitting and to say I'm nervous is an understatement!!! Heading down to the UCC open day on Saturday.  Looking forward to meeting some of you

Guidance

Celestial12 wrote: »

I didn't even realise it was on. Are you going? I won't be around, so I'll miss it. I'm going to the one in UCD though.

Did anybody go to the one in RCSI?

No, I'm hoping somebody can report back to this group!

Guidance

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

I intended to get to the one in RCSI but was working that weekend and I couldn't sneak out at the right time. Their new building was officially launched a few weeks ago and it looked very flash and snazzy.

https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2017/1018/913319-rcsi/

RCSI is holding a mature entry evening on Wednesday next - might be worth a visit for you?

ilovesmecounty

Thanks for that! Just had a look there and registered for it. I'm working that day so hopefully will be able to get out early to go to it. If I do, I'll report back! It's geared toward mature entry but hopefully I'll glean enough Grad Med info out of them.

Guidance

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Thanks for that! Just had a look there and registered for it. I'm working that day so hopefully will be able to get out early to go to it. If I do, I'll report back! It's geared toward mature entry but hopefully I'll glean enough Grad Med info out of them.

Yeah, hopefully they can deliver some info. about gradmed!

ilovesmecounty

Just got the email from RCSI confirming next Wednesday. It starts late enough in the evening so I really hope I'll make it. I never know from day to day what work will throw at me and it's impossible to plan anything before 7pm. It's going to held in their new York Street building and the nerd in me is dying to see it.

Celestial12

Did anybody make it to the open day in UCC? Looking forward to the one in UCD! I hope it's informative. I've never been on the UCD main campus, just the Blackrock one back in September for the GAMSAT. I'll try to get there early as I'll probably get lost.

ilovesmecounty, let us know how you get on in RCSI if you make it! Is anyone applying to the mature entry courses? I haven't really looked into it, but if you're eligible for gradmed then I don't think you can apply to the mature entry undergrad courses.

Guidance

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Just got the email from RCSI confirming next Wednesday. It starts late enough in the evening so I really hope I'll make it. I never know from day to day what work will throw at me and it's impossible to plan anything before 7pm. It's going to held in their new York Street building and the nerd in me is dying to see it.

Yeah, the new building should be good! I'm in a similar situation, just hoping I can make it for that time.

Limk88

Celestial12 wrote: »

Did anybody make it to the open day in UCC? Looking forward to the one in UCD! I hope it's informative. I've never been on the UCD main campus, just the Blackrock one back in September for the GAMSAT. I'll try to get there early as I'll probably get lost.

ilovesmecounty, let us know how you get on in RCSI if you make it! Is anyone applying to the mature entry courses? I haven't really looked into it, but if you're eligible for gradmed then I don't think you can apply to the mature entry undergrad courses.

I went to the UCC open day on Saturday.  It began with an introduction from one of the Drs running the GEM course, followed by a talk on fees and admissions.  UCC has 38 places for EU applicants and 34 places for non-EU applicants to the GEM course each year.  Last years GAMSAT cutoff was 58*.  The fees talk was very interesting - it seems the main reason for students dropping out of GEM courses is because they are not prepared financially so what I took away from that talk was to seriously consider how you are going to fund yourself for the duration of the course!
We got a tour of the anatomy lab which is called the FLAME lab - seems really new.  You do work with cadavers in UCC but you do prosection identification of body parts instead of dissections - in UL I believe there are no cadavers only simulations; can anyone tell me if this is true?  We then moved onto the physiology lab, which again looked new and impressive.  Then it was on to the simulated wards - apparently one of the things that sets UCC apart from other universities is that you are exposed to clinical skills early in the GEM course and the simulated wards are impressive - really looks like the hospital wards that I have frequented previously!!!  We then took blood pressure, did CPR and used the defibrillator.  
I really like the sound of UCC - it has a mix of didactic and problem based learning teaching which suits how I learn.  I think this should be a consideration when looking at the different GEM courses as they seem to be taught slightly different in each university.

Celestial12

Limk88 wrote: »

I went to the UCC open day on Saturday.  It began with an introduction from one of the Drs running the GEM course, followed by a talk on fees and admissions.  UCC has 38 places for EU applicants and 34 places for non-EU applicants to the GEM course each year.  Last years GAMSAT cutoff was 58*.  The fees talk was very interesting - it seems the main reason for students dropping out of GEM courses is because they are not prepared financially so what I took away from that talk was to seriously consider how you are going to fund yourself for the duration of the course!
We got a tour of the anatomy lab which is called the FLAME lab - seems really new.  You do work with cadavers in UCC but you do prosection identification of body parts instead of dissections - in UL I believe there are no cadavers only simulations; can anyone tell me if this is true?  We then moved onto the physiology lab, which again looked new and impressive.  Then it was on to the simulated wards - apparently one of the things that sets UCC apart from other universities is that you are exposed to clinical skills early in the GEM course and the simulated wards are impressive - really looks like the hospital wards that I have frequented previously!!!  We then took blood pressure, did CPR and used the defibrillator.  
I really like the sound of UCC - it has a mix of didactic and problem based learning teaching which suits how I learn.  I think this should be a consideration when looking at the different GEM courses as they seem to be taught slightly different in each university.

Thanks for the post, sounds like it was an informative day. I think the mixture of didactic and problem based learning sounds much better than the system that they have in place in UL. I've spoken to a few people who've been to UL and the feedback on PBL is very mixed - apparently it's difficult to gage how you're doing and what's expected of you. From what I've heard, all of the gradmed courses have an element of PBL, but I think I prefer the idea of it being supportive to traditional didactic lectures rather than being substituted by them.

UL doesn't have cadavers. Their anatomy lab does seem very impressive though.

I hope the open evening in UCD next week is beneficial. I like how they divide up their course into 5/10 credit modules which is what I'm used to from my undergrad. In UL they only have three modules in year one which I don't like at all.

Guidance

Hi all,

I went to the RCSI mature open evening. I didn't gain a lot of insight into the specifics of the GEM program but there were a few things which stood out during the evening:

- A lot of the current mature students hold down jobs as well study full-time. Two work as nurses at weekends for example! They told us that it is certainly possible but advised us not to go overboard i.e. work during the week!

- Fees are a big issue. Nothing new here, but RCSI seem very strict when it comes to the issue of funding and many of the mature students mentioned this as a potential primary stressor during your degree! Apparently loans are available although the admissions officer only commented on the loans for mature entry.

- The building is impressive. One of the highlights is the simulation room equipped with birth delivery simulation! However, for a person used to an out-door campus, it is a bit unusual.

- The admissions officer was effusive in her praise for mature entry students - in terms of degree performance - and also GEM students! She said that GEMs and mature entry students are typically among the highest performing by the end of the degree.

ilovesmecounty

Guidance wrote: »

Hi all,

I went to the RCSI mature open evening. I didn't gain a lot of insight into the specifics of the GEM program but there were a few things which stood out during the evening:

- A lot of the current mature students hold down jobs as well study full-time. Two work as nurses at weekends for example! They told us that it is certainly possible but advised us not to go overboard i.e. work during the week!

- Fees are a big issue. Nothing new here, but RCSI seem very strict when it comes to the issue of funding and many of the mature students mentioned this as a potential primary stressor during your degree! Apparently loans are available although the admissions officer only commented on the loans for mature entry.

- The building is impressive. One of the highlights is the simulation room equipped with birth delivery simulation! However, for a person used to an out-door campus, it is a bit unusual.

- The admissions officer was effusive in her praise for mature entry students - in terms of degree performance - and also GEM students! She said that GEMs and mature entry students are typically among the highest performing by the end of the degree.

Hi

I got there last night too and would echo all that guidance just wrote. A reminder too that the GEMS are currently based in Sandyford but will be moving into the Mercer building next year at some point. The other big takeaway I took from it was Money. MONEY! You will not get near the place in your first year unless you can deposit the whole chunk of that year in their account before your first day. It's understandable, they are a business. After that first year, they have a loan scheme but again it has a lot of terms and conditions. A GP spoke (he's now 10 years on from his first day as a mature student and he finished with a 45k loan and is now paying 700 a month to service that and another 700 medical indemnity insurance) so again, it hammered home that doctors don't make the big bucks. That said, you could tell he loved what he did. Also, the building is amazing (from what I saw). It was reassuring to see 'more mature' students there and enjoying it but they all had ways to make decent money on their downtime (which is the advantage of taking the extra 1-2 years to do it). It's certainly something to consider as the summer months are an opportunity to gain some funding again and we wouldn't have that option as GEMs. However, Professor Hill was really inspiring. You could tell he loved his job and he loved his college. There are too many lecturers and tutors out there who don't! On the whole, would I consider it? Absolutely. But I'm really going to have to do my sums and also look into colleges who may let you pay in instalments.

ilovesmecounty

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Hi

I got there last night too and would echo all that guidance just wrote. A reminder too that the GEMS are currently based in Sandyford but will be moving into the Mercer building next year at some point. The other big takeaway I took from it was Money. MONEY! You will not get near the place in your first year unless you can deposit the whole chunk of that year in their account before your first day. It's understandable, they are a business. After that first year, they have a loan scheme but again it has a lot of terms and conditions. A GP spoke (he's now 10 years on from his first day as a mature student and he finished with a 45k loan and is now paying 700 a month to service that and another 700 medical indemnity insurance) so again, it hammered home that doctors don't make the big bucks. That said, you could tell he loved what he did. Also, the building is amazing (from what I saw). It was reassuring to see 'more mature' students there and enjoying it but they all had ways to make decent money on their downtime (which is the advantage of taking the extra 1-2 years to do it). It's certainly something to consider as the summer months are an opportunity to gain some funding again and we wouldn't have that option as GEMs. However, Professor Hill was really inspiring. You could tell he loved his job and he loved his college. There are too many lecturers and tutors out there who don't! On the whole, would I consider it? Absolutely. But I'm really going to have to do my sums and also look into colleges who may let you pay in instalments.

Big outgoings for that GP you mentioned that’s my own worry in relation to GEM - finances. It’s very hard to be happy if you are under long term financial strain like that. As a GP though he might be earning enough to comfortably offset that though?

ilovesmecounty

Well he certainly didn't seem unhappy! It's all relative. Some people need very little income, others need a lot more due to responsibilities, mortgages, families etc. And I know no doctor is a millionaire, or even well off from day one, but at least it does improve year on year. Again, that might not be enough for the person in their 30s who have to keep a roof over their head or who have kids, or are planning to have them. I don't buy into the whole 'if your in medicine for the pay cheque you shouldn't be here,' mantra. Yes, you need to be dedicated to it, but you also need to live. I have no shame in admitting that money is always a huge consideration with anything I do. I like money!

ilovesmecounty

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Well he certainly didn't seem unhappy! It's all relative. Some people need very little income, others need a lot more due to responsibilities, mortgages, families etc. And I know no doctor is a millionaire, or even well off from day one, but at least it does improve year on year. Again, that might not be enough for the person in their 30s who have to keep a roof over their head or who have kids, or are planning to have them. I don't buy into the whole 'if your in medicine for the pay cheque you shouldn't be here,' mantra. Yes, you need to be dedicated to it, but you also need to live. I have no shame in admitting that money is always a huge consideration with anything I do. I like money!

I like money too I won’t lie I wouldn’t be happy without a good bit of discretionary income!

ilovesmecounty

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Well he certainly didn't seem unhappy! It's all relative. Some people need very little income, others need a lot more due to responsibilities, mortgages, families etc. And I know no doctor is a millionaire, or even well off from day one, but at least it does improve year on year. Again, that might not be enough for the person in their 30s who have to keep a roof over their head or who have kids, or are planning to have them. I don't buy into the whole 'if your in medicine for the pay cheque you shouldn't be here,' mantra. Yes, you need to be dedicated to it, but you also need to live. I have no shame in admitting that money is always a huge consideration with anything I do. I like money!

Just re-read that post and am shocked by my spelling and grammar! I feel the need to say that was written on an iphone while I was walking... I swear I can read good!

GrabTheCREAM

Does anyone know of anyone who got 59 in the GAMSAT and got a place in UCD/RCSI? I got 59 but im a little worried as its right on the cutoff and i assume theyll prefer the higher scoring ones for the program

ilovesmecounty

Just spotted UCD are having an open evening next Thursday at 5:15 for those wanting a peep.

Celestial12

Thanks for the RCSI info Guidance and ilovesmecounty.

GrabTheCREAM wrote: »

Does anyone know of anyone who got 59 in the GAMSAT and got a place in UCD/RCSI? I got 59 but im a little worried as its right on the cutoff and i assume theyll prefer the higher scoring ones for the program

If you're heading to the UCD evening it might be worth asking if they reckon your score will be high enough. RCSI went down to 58 this year I believe, so anyone with a 59 would have received an offer.

Guidance

ilovesmecounty wrote: »

Just spotted UCD are having an open evening next Thursday at 5:15 for those wanting a peep.

The programme looks pretty decent

debbysoap

Did anyone else attend the UCD GEM open day and would like to shed some light, please? I got there late (just before the GEM student finished speaking) & left just before the SHO finished answering questions....Dublin 2/4 traffic is crazy!

ilovesmecounty

Hi I got there for the whole thing. They did a good run through of how the 4 years are structured (I haven't got the doc with me here at work but when I get home, I'll update). It seems to be split between traditional lecture-based learning and PBL. There also seems to be a huge grá for anatomy and cadavers! The current GEMs who spoke were great, they seemed to have a passion for it and enjoyed the course, while acknowledging that it was tough going at times. There will be research opportunities in the summers in UCD as well as overseas. The graduate GEM was also informative, but, maybe it was cos she was about to go in and do a night shift, she seemed to err on the side of negativity about medicine as a job. A lot of emphasis on stress, time, pressure. And that was good to hear too. The poor woman seemed really emotionally exhausted to the point where I wondered if new doctors get enough emotional support.

Celestial12

I was there too.

You missed the talk from the Professor who leads the clinical content, and the Professor of Anatomy who is also the head of the GEM course. The first two years are mainly lecture based, but there will be some patient contact. The course in UCD is lecture based for the science theory part of the course. There are 6 PBL sessions per semester (one every two weeks) for the clinical part of the course, but I’m not sure if they start in year one or year three. I think it’s year three.

There’s an intake of 100 students each year for GEM, of which 77 are EU. Altogether with the 5 year and 6 year course there’s 292 people in medicine. Anatomy labs are separate for GEM, the class is divided into two, and there are eight cadavers.

I think they said lectures/practicals amount to 30 hours per week. I thought the final year students, and the graduate doctor were all very negative. I think they were trying to give a balanced perspective on life as a medical student/junior doctor, but they seemed to spend more time focusing on the negatives than the positives. I think some people will definitely have been put off by yesterday’s talks! They said they had no regrets with their decision to study medicine, and that dropout rates are extremely small. Seems the take home is that the course is very demanding, but all worth it in the end.

It seems that there’s plenty of opportunity to do research, both within UCD and further afield, and this seems to set it apart from the other courses. The doctor at the end mentioned that up to 5 (may not be the right number, going by memory and I was itching to leave at this stage!) students go to the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia after second/third year to do summer research. Things like that would definitely set you apart down the line when applying for different schemes etc. They’d look great on any CV! They also have various medals that are awarded each year for academic excellence.

They said there’s talk about changing the 2.1 requirement, perhaps allowing for a masters, PhD etc, but it’s not likely to change anytime soon.

Feeling a bit deflated from all the negativity though... the students themselves said that nobody who starts this course isn’t doing so without doubts. It’s a huge decision and there’s pros and cons to it. I think UCD will definitely be my first choice though.

debbysoap

Thank you both so, so much!
@Celestial, yes that’s true, they did seem to be heavily highlighting stress etc but I’ve heard some Med students say medicine is not impossible as long as you mange your time wisely, and that to go into medicine believing that it’ll be so incredibly difficult is putting yourself at a disadvantage as the course itself is very doable!
Thanks again for such a comprehensive review

letsdothis

Celestial12 wrote: »

I was there too.

I think they said lectures/practicals amount to 30 hours per week. I thought the final year students, and the graduate doctor were all very negative. I think they were trying to give a balanced perspective on life as a medical student/junior doctor, but they seemed to spend more time focusing on the negatives than the positives. I think some people will definitely have been put off by yesterday’s talks! They said they had no regrets with their decision to study medicine, and that dropout rates are extremely small. Seems the take home is that the course is very demanding, but all worth it in the end.


Feeling a bit deflated from all the negativity though... the students themselves said that nobody who starts this course isn’t doing so without doubts. It’s a huge decision and there’s pros and cons to it. I think UCD will definitely be my first choice though.

I think it's vitally important that anyone considering GEM / medicine considers the negatives as well as the positives. If you are feeling deflated, that sounds like the guys last night got some excellent and valid points across! However, I think describing it as 'negativity' is completely inaccurate - it's reality.

A lot of us in final Med have been reflecting on our choice to undertake the course and what advice we would give to others thinking about it - overwhelmingly we agreed that we would stress the negatives more and urge people to fully consider the choice they are making! It's hard imagine the sacrifices that are required - and I'm saying this as someone who has made huge efforts over the last 4 years to maintain a good work-life balance throughout. Am I happy I've done it and excited about my career, despite knowing it will be difficult, stressful and challanging? Definitely, 100%. Would I do it again if I had my time over? Honestly, no.

There are numerous other careers out there with huge potential for job satisfaction (and far better salaries than medicine). The degree is just the start of a life of sacrifices for your career - moving jobs constantly for years, working long and unsociable hours, missing social and family occasions...

It's a fantastic career and an incredibly privileged one but there are far, far easier options out there. Seriously, seriously consider your choice - the workload and sacrifices are worse than you are imagining! BUT it's a hugely satisfying, emotionally/intellectually challenging course. Just be sure it really is for you.

Anita Blow

Think it's important to have current students instill some realism in prospective students. You have to remember that the colleges are businesses and on these open days they can sometimes stray into an overly rosy picture in order to attract customers (students).

I don't think any of the students are trying to be negative, but just trying to tell you guys some of the stuff we wish we had been told or taken into account when we made a decision to go into it.

gbd41p

For anyone considering ucd, I called into the aib and BOI branches associated with the college this week to enquire about few loans for gem.

AIB are no longer providing them, but BOI are. I was told that a strong guarantor is a must, and taking out further personal loans with them won’t be possible.

Just thought I’d pass this information on.