GAMSAT 2017

Celestial12

debbysoap wrote: »

Happy New Year to you too & thanks for the reminder!

Just wondering if we need to send off Leaving Certificate Results also? Or does that not apply to GEM? I don’t think we need to, but just in case..

No, we don't need to send in our results. I think it's just transcripts, degree cert and GAMSAT score. Do we need anything else?

medennial wrote: »

Is updating your Acer account just a matter of going onto the Registration section and updating the registration with your CAO number?

For instance, I'm using my results from the September sitting so I went onto my September registration and updated the number there.

Probably a silly question, but better to be safe than sorry!

That's all I did! I might email them in a couple of days to make sure that they got it. I was going to send them in a printout of the results but decided not to in the end.

Pierre_Robin

Sorry to perhaps derail the thread again.... Tell me to p*ss off if ye want!

brendanwalsh wrote: »

I think you're making a lot of excuses for the training. Nobody should have to seek out training and be sweeter than sweet to just be given an nugget of training. The issue is there is very little formal didactic training, it's very passive and more osmotic in nature.

I don't think I am. I take it you've never had a significant job outside of medicine? Being rewarded for taking initiative isn't an alien concept in other industries, but seems to be beyond a lot of people who are doctors. I'm certainly not sweeter than sweet, anyone who works with me will attest to that. What I am however, is hard-working and not afraid to ask a consultant to explain something. As I said, I've never had a consultant, or anyone else for that matter, turn me away when I've asked. On the contrary, I've had extra sessions organised, and 1-to-1 teaching from these very people. My colleagues who are a pain in the backside to work with, and complain about everything haven't had the same experience so take from that what you will.

You say there's no training, I say there is. I don't think this "he said-she said" argument helps anyone.

brendanwalsh wrote: »

The other thing not mentioned is the artifical bottle neck at spr level. Plenty of good candidates with exams passed on first attempt have been shunned multiple times for specialist training just because they didn't have the right face or their daddy didn't play rugby for a certain club. In the US and UK it is much more objective in progressing through your career.

I'll agree with the bottleneck alright. Don't think it has anything to do with your face or Dad's rugby team though. I got mine first time, and I'm not a south Dublin lad with a rich father. Surgery especially bad at the moment, and will certainly have to change. You mention the UK, not what we should be emulating IMO. They're pumping out more consultants true, but a lot of inexperienced ones, especially in the craft specialities (e.g. Surgery, Obs/Gynae).

There's bad doctors in every country but a bad doctor who has had a very didactic heavy residency under his belt will be much better than a sh*te career reg here.

True, but a career reg isn't exactly the same as someone on a training scheme are they? I'd wager a final year cardiology SpR would measure up well to their American/British counterpart.

Money is rubbish compared to us. After 3 years of residency in US you can command a quarter of a million salary. Here you will never make that. You'll be lucky to be paid all your rostered time at that. Everyone knows a department who won't pay any overtime whatsoever (cuh anesthesia being one example)

The money in the states is reflective of their style of medicine. It's easy to pay doctors phenomenal cash if you only perform private work. Not a like with like comparison.

I'll agree with the overtime, but I can say I haven't had an issue in >3 years. Entirely unacceptable not to pay people for hours worked and is an issue not seen in the UK. Conversely, your beloved US doesn't pay most overtime, if any, for residents. Minimal pay for fellowships also.

Being a doctor in this country involves learning also how to be a nurse, a health care assistant, a social worker a phlebotomist etc. Most developed countries have healthcare systems in which the doctor strictly practices medicine. It's a disgrace in this day and age doctors being asked to do bloods canulas catheters etc etc.

To echo what another poster said, you don't seem happy as a doctor. I personally think it's a disgrace in this day and age if a doctor can't perform phlebotomy, cannulation, insert a catheter, etc. What do you do at an acute emergency? Call the catheter guy? Transfer of tasks getting better though, and I would agree we shouldn't be left to do it all. Not quite a disgrace however. I can tell you from friends working in the NHS that they're doing similar stuff.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel it's important to counter the onslaught of negativity you see online. I probably won't change your mind Brendan, but I want potential doctors to know that it's not all bad.

Brendan, I'd really recommend talking to someone, and to be honest, go and do something else. Life is too short to work 70 hours a week at something you hate.

2Scoops

The holier than thou attitude seems strong in this thread.

Anita Blow

Pierre_Robin wrote: »

True, but a career reg isn't exactly the same as someone on a training scheme are they? I'd wager a final year cardiology SpR would measure up well to their American/British counterpart.

Anecdotal but close family friend is an Attending in arguably one of the leading hospitals in North America and he thinks Irish-trained doctors far exceed their north american counterparts. Specifically advised me against training over there and to complete my training in Ireland.

Pierre_Robin wrote: »

I'll agree with the overtime, but I can say I haven't had an issue in >3 years. Entirely unacceptable not to pay people for hours worked and is an issue not seen in the UK. Conversely, your beloved US doesn't pay most overtime, if any, for residents. Minimal pay for fellowships also.

The UK isn't great either. The reason being paid overtime isn't an issue is because they aren't paid overtime at all- they get banded and that's incorporated into their paycheck but for a given banding they can be asked to work essentially as many hours as their employer wants. I've a friend who has been working 2 illegal rotas in a 1.5 year period who had to get onto the BMA and was subsequently paid their owed overtime 1 year later

Pierre_Robin

2Scoops wrote: »

The holier than thou attitude seems strong in this thread.

Helpful.

2Scoops

About as helpful as advising someone to resign based on a half-baked psychological assessment of internet posts.

Kirby2k07

The man does sound beyond miserable to be fair

Pierre_Robin

2Scoops wrote: »

About as helpful as advising someone to resign based on a half-baked psychological assessment of internet posts.

Coming from a place of compassion. If you're a medic yourself I'm sure you're aware of colleagues who would have been much happier doing something else.

Medicine is the only field I'm aware of where people stay despite hating it. Friends of mine who did accounting, and hated it, were congratulated by their colleagues on making the decision to change job.

Stay in the job, or don't. Doesn't make a lick of difference to me. Brendan seemed to find only negatives with his job, not exactly a half-baked theory to suggest he should reflect on whether this is the job for him. No shame in admitting the job you chose at 17 isn't what you thought it would be.

If that's holier than thou, fair enough.

medennial

Anyway...

Those applying for GEM Entry in September 2018 and currently filling out CAO applications and updating ACER accounts may find this useful.

http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2018/GraduateEntryMedicine2018.pdf

GrabTheCREAM

Actually, may seem like a complete waste of about 15000, but does anyone know if you're able to accept an offer, retake gamsat and switch to another gem course the following year?

Celestial12

GrabTheCREAM wrote: »

Actually, may seem like a complete waste of about 15000, but does anyone know if you're able to accept an offer, retake gamsat and switch to another gem course the following year?

I'm pretty sure I read in one of the UL GEM threads, that after first year, some people transferred into second year at another university after taking the GAMSAT again.

Celestial12

medennial wrote: »

Anyway...

Those applying for GEM Entry in September 2018 and currently filling out CAO applications and updating ACER accounts may find this useful.

http://www2.cao.ie/downloads/documents/2018/GraduateEntryMedicine2018.pdf

I really don't like the CAO website! Are we supposed to be able to see out supporting documentation/GAMSAT score on our profile? I can't.

ilovesmecounty

Pierre_Robin wrote: »

Coming from a place of compassion. If you're a medic yourself I'm sure you're aware of colleagues who would have been much happier doing something else.

Medicine is the only field I'm aware of where people stay despite hating it. Friends of mine who did accounting, and hated it, were congratulated by their colleagues on making the decision to change job.

Stay in the job, or don't. Doesn't make a lick of difference to me. Brendan seemed to find only negatives with his job, not exactly a half-baked theory to suggest he should reflect on whether this is the job for him. No shame in admitting the job you chose at 17 isn't what you thought it would be.

If that's holier than thou, fair enough.

No I don't think you're derailing at all, as it's an important discussion to have. I myself am one of those people who pursued what I thought I wanted to do at 17, and I far surpassed any expectations I had for myself in that career path. But guess what? I hate it. It's killing my soul. I returned to education to study what interested me. I'm earning a lot of money right now. If I manage to get into medicine, I'll be working for 8 years (judging by current pay scales) until I'm back on par. I'm used to long unsociable hours where I am so that doesn't scare me off too much. But I know what it's like to be in something you don't enjoy at all. Life is short, unless you're in a job you hate, when it becomes very long. It takes guts to leave, especially when you have people who care about you telling you that you are nuts. But they don't know the effect of working 40-50 hours in a job that is crushing me has on me. You can't love your job everyday. But to like it, or even to enjoy a day or two here or there isn't too much to ask.

ilovesmecounty

Celestial12 wrote: »

I really don't like the CAO website! Are we supposed to be able to see out supporting documentation/GAMSAT score on our profile? I can't.

I've posted my original documentation to the CAO, and I've updated my Acer site with my CAO number. Reading that link posted earlier from the CAO, what will happen is that CAO will contact Acer for our results AFTER May, which means the March sitting can be taken into account if you're re-sitting (like me). That's my take anyway! It's an awful website. Bring back the days of CAO when you popped everything in the post because you didn't trust the internet to do it!

brendanwalsh

Pierre_Robin wrote: »

I don't think I am. I take it you've never had a significant job outside of medicine? Being rewarded for taking initiative isn't an alien concept in other industries, but seems to be beyond a lot of people who are doctors. I'm certainly not sweeter than sweet, anyone who works with me will attest to that. What I am however, is hard-working and not afraid to ask a consultant to explain something. As I said, I've never had a consultant, or anyone else for that matter, turn me away when I've asked. On the contrary, I've had extra sessions organised, and 1-to-1 teaching from these very people. My colleagues who are a pain in the backside to work with, and complain about everything haven't had the same experience so take from that what you will.

You say there's no training, I say there is. I don't think this "he said-she said" argument helps anyone.


I'll agree with the bottleneck alright. Don't think it has anything to do with your face or Dad's rugby team though. I got mine first time, and I'm not a south Dublin lad with a rich father. Surgery especially bad at the moment, and will certainly have to change. You mention the UK, not what we should be emulating IMO. They're pumping out more consultants true, but a lot of inexperienced ones, especially in the craft specialities (e.g. Surgery, Obs/Gynae).


True, but a career reg isn't exactly the same as someone on a training scheme are they? I'd wager a final year cardiology SpR would measure up well to their American/British counterpart.



The money in the states is reflective of their style of medicine. It's easy to pay doctors phenomenal cash if you only perform private work. Not a like with like comparison.

I'll agree with the overtime, but I can say I haven't had an issue in >3 years. Entirely unacceptable not to pay people for hours worked and is an issue not seen in the UK. Conversely, your beloved US doesn't pay most overtime, if any, for residents. Minimal pay for fellowships also.



To echo what another poster said, you don't seem happy as a doctor. I personally think it's a disgrace in this day and age if a doctor can't perform phlebotomy, cannulation, insert a catheter, etc. What do you do at an acute emergency? Call the catheter guy? Transfer of tasks getting better though, and I would agree we shouldn't be left to do it all. Not quite a disgrace however. I can tell you from friends working in the NHS that they're doing similar stuff.

Sorry for the wall of text, but I feel it's important to counter the onslaught of negativity you see online. I probably won't change your mind Brendan, but I want potential doctors to know that it's not all bad.

Brendan, I'd really recommend talking to someone, and to be honest, go and do something else. Life is too short to work 70 hours a week at something you hate.

We will just essentially have to agree to disagree.

From my own experience there is no training at bst or hst level; training in this country is via osmosis. Just copy what someone else does, but you never know why you're doing it. It's very much a self directed learning approach but that is not the best way for doctors to be trained. The length of training time is prohibitively long, even when finished there is no guarantee of a consultant post at the end.

The comment about career regs actually reaffirms my point - why are some good doctors stuck forever as registrars ? Due to artifical bottle neck and having the wrong passport or wrong face.

The amount of scut work associated with being a nchd is huge. I don't think doing canulas or catheters or bladder scans is a doctors job.

Many of my colleagues and friends across the country reiterate the same as me, and I've seen many great doctors just settle and do GP because the system here burnt them out to a crisp. Equally, colleagues who have gone to Canada and the US speak of the promised land of milk and honey, and they have no intentions to come home. This further exacerbates the brain drain of doctors we have in this country.

Money is a big problem for doctors. I've had to move house three times in the last twelve months. I've had to rent two houses simultaneously during this period due to being unable to find short term leases. All while servicing a loan over 100k. It's hand to mouth stuff, and the story is common for plenty doctors across the country.

It's unfair to tell me to resign. I'm not the only doctor in the country who has echoed these points or feels this way. Do you tell everyone you work with who voices dissent about the system here to find a new career. There's a false rosy picture being painted for prospective students in thread, I think they should know some of the things I wish I had been told. I'm not here to offend or annoy anyone. If a colleague told me they hated hospital medicine id tell them look at a different specialty, GP or pathology spring to mind. I wouldn't tell them to resign and study accounting.

Pierre_Robin

brendanwalsh wrote: »

We will just essentially have to agree to disagree.

That's grand, just be aware not everyone in medicine is desperately unhappy. Even if it's just me!

It's unfair to tell me to resign. I'm not the only doctor in the country who has echoed these points or feels this way.

Apologies if I upset you, it wasn't my intention. I've seen colleagues of mine struggle, and struggle to the point we were worried about self-harm. I looked back over my old post, and being post call it was probably a bit strongly worded. Sorry.

Do you tell everyone you work with who voices dissent about the system here to find a new career.

I don't, but I've suggested that if you hate your job as much as you seem to (maybe I've taken you up wrong), and you don't have the scope or ability to change what's bothering you about it, it may be better to do something else. Or at least talk to someone you trust about your problems.

There's a false rosy picture being painted for prospective students in thread, I think they should know some of the things I wish I had been told.

I'd disagree with me painting a rosy picture, but as you said, we'll agree to disagree.

If a colleague told me they hated hospital medicine id tell them look at a different specialty, GP or pathology spring to mind. I wouldn't tell them to resign and study accounting.

GP seems to be the panacea to hospital medicine sometimes, but from talking to my GP friends it isn't as rosy as you'd think. The question I'm raising, and it's an uncomfortable one, is that whether medicine is right for you at all? Not you specifically, but people who hate hospital medicine.

In an ideal world we could change the system and get back to a perfectly functioning health system where we all get along. That might not be possible though, and in the end, you have to think of what's best for you and your family.

I just don't want to have to worry about another colleague topping themselves over Christmas Brendan. That's all.

GrabTheCREAM

Does anyone have the 2017 March Percentile Curve? Havent seen it uploaded on this. Thanks in advance

mesallat

Hey guys, did anyone on here get a score of 61 in sept, and if so are you repeating in march ?!

I got 61; I feel that if I got 60 or lower i'd happily repeat, and if I got 62 i'd be pretty happy to sit and wait with that for UCD.

61 is a tricky one cause it has to be 60 or lower to guarantee place, and it was 59 last year I think and has gone up by 2 pts before (rarely happens tho in fairness). Just wondering if anyone else in that predicament anyway ?

cheers

Celestial12

GrabTheCREAM wrote: »

Does anyone have the 2017 March Percentile Curve? Havent seen it uploaded on this. Thanks in advance

I think the 50th percentile was about 58 or something like that. I remember people expected the cut-offs to increase last year because the percentile curve changed, but that didn't materialise. I saw the curve at one point but can't access it now.

GrabTheCREAM

Celestial12 wrote: »

I think the 50th percentile was about 58 or something like that. I remember people expected the cut-offs to increase last year because the percentile curve changed, but that didn't materialise. I saw the curve at one point but can't access it now.

Oh wow.. I got 59 in september exam and that was around 65% so that means points must be going up lol damn

Celestial12

GrabTheCREAM wrote: »

Oh wow.. I got 59 in september exam and that was around 65% so that means points must be going up lol damn

People thought that they would go up last year, but it didn't transpire. People in Australia do much better in the exam, so they have a big impact on the curves. March GAMSAT is when Australian's tend to sit the exam, they get much higher scores than the UK and Ireland... Hence a respectable score in March results in a lower percentile score.

This graph was posted by somebody before, and is quite interesting!

Celestial12

Hello!

Just wondering if anyone has a copy of the first year GEM timetable for UCD?

debbysoap

Celestial12 wrote: »

Hello!

Just wondering if anyone has a copy of the first year GEM timetable for UCD?

Hey, if you go into UCD’s general timetable online (1), and navigate to Graduate Medicine, they show both semesters’ timetables
The list of week numbers, etc. can be found on another page (2).

1. http://www.ucd.ie/students/generalreferencetimetable.html

2. http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/curriculum/documents/Week-Ranges.pdf

Celestial12

debbysoap wrote: »

Hey, if you go into UCD’s general timetable online (1), and navigate to Graduate Medicine, they show both semesters’ timetables
The list of week numbers, etc. can be found on another page (2).

1. http://www.ucd.ie/students/generalreferencetimetable.html

2. http://www.ucd.ie/registry/adminservices/curriculum/documents/Week-Ranges.pdf

Brilliant! Thank you. The schedule looks manageable enough, lots of spare time on Wednesday and finished by 13:00 on Friday.

Celestial12

LOL, that was just lectures. The timetable is hectic enough.

Celestial12

Celestial12 wrote: »

LOL, that was just lectures. The timetable is hectic enough.

What components are there other than lectures? May seem like a silly question but it’s genuine!

GrabTheCREAM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What components are there other than lectures? May seem like a silly question but it’s genuine!

I think they said on the open day that there are PBL session every couple weeks

GrabTheCREAM

GrabTheCREAM wrote: »

I think they said on the open day that there are PBL session every couple weeks

I see thank you!

Is it a bad sign if I can’t even understand the timetable! There are loads of modules under each time how do you figure that out?

Celestial12

There's also tutorials, practicals etc.

Deleted User wrote: »

Is it a bad sign if I can’t even understand the timetable! There are loads of modules under each time how do you figure that out?

They're each allocated a number corresponding to the week. Though it is a little bit confusing, and certain weeks seem to have a time slot that's double booked. For example both Cell-Cell Communication and Human Form are down for week 2 Monday at 11:00. I guess I'll worry about that later! Just wanted to see a snapshot of what it was like for now.