Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VI

swiwi_

shuffol wrote: »

Fair enough, out of curiosity what changes would you have gone for previously?

I've already posted on this, but basically: forwards no room to manoeuvre with the injuries. But in the backs from the opening weekend, I would have had McCloskey at 12 with Henshaw 13 & Payne 15 or Payne 13 & Henshaw 15. I would have had Zebo at 14 not 15 for Wales, I would have had Jackson on the bench, and I most definitely would not have called up McFadden.

swiwi_

swiwi_ wrote: »

I've already posted on this, but basically: forwards no room to manoeuvre with the injuries. But in the backs from the opening weekend, I would have had McCloskey at 12 with Henshaw 13 & Payne 15 or Payne 13 & Henshaw 15. I would have had Zebo at 14 not 15 for Wales, I would have had Jackson on the bench, and I most definitely would not have called up McFadden.

Who instead of McFadden

Podge_irl

Considering we would have probably won both the Wales and France games if our scrum was solid the call up of Healy and especially Ross is not exactly all that surprising or unwarranted.

awec

Its on UAFC that Jackson, Gilroy and Olding were out for a meal in Belfast last night.

So we can assume it's still Madigan.

Podge_irl

awec wrote: »

So we can assume it's still Madigan.

I really, really, really don't understand that one. It's one of the more baffling calls that Schmidt consistently makes.

vienne86

awec wrote: »

Its on UAFC that Jackson, Gilroy and Olding were out for a meal in Belfast last night.

So we can assume it's still Madigan.

Dammit. I just don't understand how Jackson is getting left out again. I think he playing as well as he has ever played, and I would far prefer to see him coming on than Madigan.

But I'm delighted with the prospect of Van der Flier and McCloskey getting starts.

Sanjuro

I presume the team announcement is today?

awec

Sanjuro wrote: »

I presume the team announcement is today?

At lunch time my dear boy.

swiwi_

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who instead of McFadden

Marshall for example. With Payne and Henshaw covering the back 3.

shuffol

swiwi_ wrote: »

I've already posted on this, but basically: forwards no room to manoeuvre with the injuries. But in the backs from the opening weekend, I would have had McCloskey at 12 with Henshaw 13 & Payne 15 or Payne 13 & Henshaw 15. I would have had Zebo at 14 not 15 for Wales, I would have had Jackson on the bench, and I most definitely would not have called up McFadden.

That's a 12/13/15 I think most people would like to see but I think you have to look at the context of the selection. We were heavily hit by injuries to experienced players again, we'd a new front row, 2nd row(at test level) and backrow. Whilst I may not agree with it I can understand the argument of staying with a midfield that's a reasonably settled unit and we know works excellently together in defence and is solid in attack.

I agree on McFadden but it was a nothing selection.

LostArt

vienne86 wrote: »

Dammit. I just don't understand how Jackson is getting left out again. I think he playing as well as he has ever played, and I would far prefer to see him coming on than Madigan.

I think it's pretty clear at this stage that for whatever reason Joe doesn't rate Jackson

Noopti

If Madigan is on the bench, that is a very poor call in my opinion. But he will have another chance to prove he deserves it. He will need to run that game perfectly when he gets his chance.

former total

LostArt wrote: »

I think it's pretty clear at this stage that for whatever reason Joe doesn't rate Jackson

Well, we don't yet know that he's been excluded, but if he is, then yes, I think at some point people will have to accept this.

For all the talk of Joe's conservatism etc; this is VDF and McCloskey's first involvement with the squad and they've been (apparently) pitched into the team for their debuts at Twickenham, when he could easily have gone with TOD and Earls at 7 and 13.

So VDF and McCloskey have obviously made enough of an impact in the space of four weeks to earn a jersey. Jackson has been in or around the squad for all of Joe's tenure and seems to be going backwards.

Personally, I think they're much of a muchness and neither are really of the required standard (yet).

errlloyd

Call me old fashioned, but I still think Twickenham is the hardest place to go in the Northern Hemisphere, McCloskey and VDF have to really deliver. I am so pumped, if we get mauled by 30 points but those two player well, I'll be happy.

thomond2006

Who is the backrow sub? Ruddock or TOD? TOD makes more sense if you want versatility. Ruddock probably a better 'power' option.

Pink Fairy

awec wrote: »

At lunch time my dear boy.

For a change ?

former total

thomond2006 wrote: »

Who is the backrow sub? Ruddock or TOD? TOD makes more sense if you want versatility. Ruddock probably a better 'power' option.

I think it will be Ruddock; definitely more powerful and probably more versatile too...

LostArt

former total wrote: »

Personally, I think they're much of a muchness and neither are really of the required standard (yet).

Completely agree, at the moment I'm not too pushed about who gets that slot.

calico77

England squad to face Ireland:
1 Joe Marler (Harlequins, 39 caps)
2 Dylan Hartley (captain, Northampton Saints, 68 caps)
3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 58 caps)
4 Maro Itoje (Saracens, 1 cap)
5 George Kruis (Saracens, 12 caps)
6 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins, 45 caps)
7 James Haskell (Wasps, 64 caps)
8 Billy Vunipola (vice captain, Saracens, 23 caps)
9 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 54 caps)
10 George Ford (Bath Rugby, 19 caps)
11 Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
12 Owen Farrell (vice captain, Saracens, 37 caps)
13 Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 18 caps)
14 Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 17 caps)
15 Mike Brown (vice captain, Harlequins, 45 caps)
Replacements
16 Jamie George (Saracens, 5 caps)
17 Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 30 caps)
18 Paul Hill (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
19 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 45 caps)
20 Jack Clifford (Harlequins, 2 caps)
21 Danny Care (Harlequins, 56 caps)
22 Elliot Daly (Wasps, uncapped)
23 Alex Goode (Saracens, 20 caps)

thomond2006

Care and Daly on the bench, that's some pace to bring on at 60.

Pink Fairy

England team named

errlloyd

Shame they didn't start Daly.

Mahatma Geansai

While I'm quite happy with the proposed team, you would have to feel for TOD as he has been excellent in our first two games. The Joe Schmidt of the last few years is not a coach who makes unenforced changes, so there is a feeling of scapegoating TOD for the loss last week. Just as Zebo was dropped after the loss last year.

VdF is a very promising player, but you would have to think that he hasn't had to jump through quite the same hoops that most other new caps have been forced to jump through.

pickarooney

Where is this proposed team?

sullivlo

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

While I'm quite happy with the proposed team, you would have to feel for TOD as he has been excellent in our first two games. The Joe Schmidt of the last few years is not a coach who makes unenforced changes, so there is a feeling of scapegoating TOD for the loss last week. Just as Zebo was dropped after the loss last year.

VdF is a very promising player, but you would have to think that he hasn't had to jump through quite the same hoops that most other new caps have been forced to jump through.

:rolleyes:

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't.

sydthebeat

itoje in the second row.....

not the tallest second row arrangement ever...we should be able to pressurise their lineouts with Dev, Donn Ryan and Jamie getting up.

they will be quite mobile around the part though.. itoje and kruis all have significant flanker experience

calico77

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

While I'm quite happy with the proposed team, you would have to feel for TOD as he has been excellent in our first two games. The Joe Schmidt of the last few years is not a coach who makes unenforced changes, so there is a feeling of scapegoating TOD for the loss last week. Just as Zebo was dropped after the loss last year.

VdF is a very promising player, but you would have to think that he hasn't had to jump through quite the same hoops that most other new caps have been forced to jump through.

TOD has done a job, certainly hasnt let the side down but "excellent" is stretching things a little bit. What hoops did Stander jump through? None. Once qualified he got called up, likewise Payne. Its how pro sport works.

The only selection i dont understand is Madigan over PJ. I like Madigan but he just has had too much time at 12 and 15 at leinster and not enough at 10. I understand the covering positions idea but Madigan is more likely to come on for Sexton these days and with Earls and Zebo in the 23 we have enough scope to cover with minimal changing around.

sydthebeat

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

While I'm quite happy with the proposed team, you would have to feel for TOD as he has been excellent in our first two games. .

it doesnt matter what we you look at it or lay blame, but both the tries we've conceded have come at scrum time down the opensides channel. While Tommy has been quite good in open play and very industrious at tackling and the breakdown im afraid his ceiling might just not be high enough...

id love to see him bulk up a bit too... there have been a few occassions where his impact at a ruck as been ineffectual.

awec

former total wrote: »

Well, we don't yet know that he's been excluded, but if he is, then yes, I think at some point people will have to accept this.

For all the talk of Joe's conservatism etc; this is VDF and McCloskey's first involvement with the squad and they've been (apparently) pitched into the team for their debuts at Twickenham, when he could easily have gone with TOD and Earls at 7 and 13.

So VDF and McCloskey have obviously made enough of an impact in the space of four weeks to earn a jersey. Jackson has been in or around the squad for all of Joe's tenure and seems to be going backwards.

Personally, I think they're much of a muchness and neither are really of the required standard (yet).

I really don't think this is the case.

Either Schmidt is telling the truth when he says it's just because of apparent versatility, or else Jackson is turning up to camps and actually forgetting how to play rugby.

whatawaster

For me Jackson has to start one of our last two matches. If he doesn't then we are making the same old mistakes again and neglecting to build our depth in key positions.

In fact, I would probably go:

Jackson-Murray for one of the games

and

Sexton-Marmion for the other.

We could easily find ourselves facing South Africa or New Zealand and having to rely on either or both of those guys.

This is not under-estimating Italy or Scotland, but they are the two weakest teams in the Championship, they are both at home and we have no chance of winning the competition, so our priorities need to change just slightly.

Would also like to see some or all of Gilroy and Ringrose involved in some way, maybe against Italy.