Singer Kesha Rape claim

allibastor

Just listening to this on the radio this morning.

Not looking to get into he ins and out of it, but I would imagine your man Dr. Luke's career will be in tatters, even if innocent.

Bit mad of a thing to come out with if its not true. All the support Kesha receives would show that a lot agree of the naming, but is it not jumping the gun a bit.

Sir Osis of Liver.

Never heard of Kesha or Doctor Luke.

If it's true,he should be struck off at the very least.

Sonics2k

allibastor wrote: »

Just listening to this on the radio this morning.

Not looking to get into he ins and out of it, but I would imagine your man Dr. Luke's career will be in tatters, even if innocent.

Bit mad of a thing to come out with if its not true. All the support Kesha receives would show that a lot agree of the naming, but is it not jumping the gun a bit.

A lot of other female singers, as well as male singers, have made very similar claims about the man over the years, but none were able to go to court. Sadly, it is a fact of the world that people in certain positions are very hard to actually take to court, look at R Kelly for example, who still has a music career.

I think the big mistake Kesha made in this case is that because she hasn't actually pressed charges against him, the court had no actual reason to break the contract.

Senna

So no report to police, no evidence, she has been in regular contact with him since then (10 years) and now she wants to get out of a music contract so starts shouting "rape".
That's 30 seconds worth of googling but am I wrong?

razorblunt

I've not been following it closely either, there's no actual case against for rape right?
She's accused him of this and stated she no longer wants to work with him?

Strange that Sony don't just let he go to save face and be seeing to do the right thing, what do they have to gain for it?

This popped up in my FB newsfeed yesterday too, some guy commented to point out that he's only been accused of it on a thread of a female author who was sharing the story, holy crap was he destroyed for it!

suicide_circus

The fact the the sexual battery claim coincided precisely with her attempt to break contract with him looks a little dodgy. And the judge also threw out the case due to zero evidence. Your man's career is still ruined anyway so job done I suppose.

suicide_circus

Sonics2k wrote: »

A lot of other female singers, as well as male singers, have made very similar claims about the man over the years, but none were able to go to court. Sadly, it is a fact of the world that people in certain positions are very hard to actually take to court, look at R Kelly for example, who still has a music career.

I think the big mistake Kesha made in this case is that because she hasn't actually pressed charges against him, the court had no actual reason to break the contract.

No smoke without fire!

fullstop

razorblunt wrote: »

This popped up in my FB newsfeed yesterday too, some guy commented to point out that he's only been accused of it on a thread of a female author who was sharing the story, holy crap was he destroyed for it!

I think I know the page you're talking about...did the same person have an article about her ex boyfriend and the UCD scandal? Think there was a thread on here about it.

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

No smoke without fire!

The most idiotic idiom ever uttered.

Gatling

She made the claim ages ago ,

Plenty of victims of abuse stayed in contact with their abusers

everlast75

I don't know much about her claim, but I do know that anyone who drinks their own p*ss for a reality TV show seems quite unhinged*

Whether that's because of what is alleged to have happened to her, or the cause of her making an unfounded claim is another question.

*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOZ0Vzpj0dY

allibastor

To be honest only a few know if its true or not.

More my point was, with all the sensations of this now online, the like of Taylor Swift giving over 250K etc, has this signed your mans career over now. Surley no-one will work with him again after this.

R-Kelly, as pointed out above, he has a career, but no-where near as big as he once was.

I suppose Sony cant axe him, or break contract with Kesha as it will show an admission of guilt.

mickstupp

This thread is heading towards the Land Of No Surprises Here. No need to read any more methinks. I've lost enough faith in humanity already.

razorblunt

fullstop wrote: »

I think I know the page you're talking about...did the same person have an article about her ex boyfriend and the UCD scandal? Think there was a thread on here about it.

I'm not sure, I think this she's an author (along the lines of those new age Mills & Boon type stuff). Got the impression she's American but I could be wrong, I'll see if I can dig it out.

SEPT 23 1989

Any relation of Dr Hook?

everlast75

allibastor wrote: »

To be honest only a few know if its true or not.

More my point was, with all the sensations of this now online, the like of Taylor Swift giving over 250K etc, has this signed your mans career over now. Surley no-one will work with him again after this.

R-Kelly, as pointed out above, he has a career, but no-where near as big as he once was.

I suppose Sony cant axe him, or break contract with Kesha as it will show an admission of guilt.

R-Kelly has some serious questions to answer. Lots of documentaries with allegations of underage sex

http://www.villagevoice.com/music/read-the-stomach-churning-sexual-assault-accusations-against-r-kelly-in-full-6637412

Ah yer wan in her knickers trying to be as slutty as the rest of them. I'd say the stories behind closed doors would chill you to the bone.

she was happy enough with him when she was a nobody, now she's more famous it's easy to shout rape given his colourful past!!

they can get harassment and rape from a guy staring at a girl in America!!
this is the same country that passed a food law stating PIZZA was a vegetable because it had tomato paste on it!! ha ha ha just so Pizza hut could supply canteens in schools!!

amazing!! bloody Americans.

fullstop

razorblunt wrote: »

I'm not sure, I think this she's an author (along the lines of those new age Mills & Boon type stuff). Got the impression she's American but I could be wrong, I'll see if I can dig it out.

Ah no this was an Irish one.

BattleCorp

If Kesha was abused/raped:-

I can see why she didn't go to the police early on in her career? Some people put up with unacceptable behaviour if they are in a vulnerable position (such as someone starting out in the music business).

That said, she is no longer in a vulnerable position. Why has she still not gone to the police regarding this claim?

thattequilagirl

BattleCorp wrote: »

If Kesha was abused/raped:-

I can see why she didn't go to the police early on in her career? Some people put up with unacceptable behaviour if they are in a vulnerable position (such as someone starting out in the music business).

That said, she is no longer in a vulnerable position. Why has she still not gone to the police regarding this claim?

Because life isn't black and white?

Because she feared not being believed? A fear that is substantiated by a quick read of this thread

Because she was suffering from some kind of PTSD?

Because she thought it might damage her career?

Toobz

allibastor wrote: »

Just listening to this on the radio this morning.

Not looking to get into he ins and out of it, but I would imagine your man Dr. Luke's career will be in tatters, even if innocent.

Bit mad of a thing to come out with if its not true. All the support Kesha receives would show that a lot agree of the naming, but is it not jumping the gun a bit.

Why are you so focused towards it being a lie by Kesha? If anything, that's jumping the gun.

Wibbs

rusty cole wrote:

Ah yer wan in her knickers trying to be as slutty as the rest of them.

I don't know where to begin with that daftness.

That said the more you dig, the more odd it gets. A few years ago she swore in a court hearing that any contact they had was consensual, now the story changes and it happens to change when she wants out of a contract? The fact that it was also thrown out of court says a fair bit. Not conclusive either way but bloody fishy. In the old days she'd have taken a civil action against him, now it's easier and cheaper to use the High Court of Twitter. It's a win win for her either way.

DrumSteve

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Any relation of Dr Hook?

TBF, that would be a great name for a record producer.

The Backwards Man

rusty cole wrote: »

Ah yer wan in her knickers trying to be as slutty as the rest of them. I'd say the stories behind closed doors would chill you to the bone.

she was happy enough with him when she was a nobody, now she's more famous it's easy to shout rape given his colourful past!!

they can get harassment and rape from a guy staring at a girl in America!!
this is the same country that passed a food law stating PIZZA was a vegetable because it had tomato paste on it!! ha ha ha just so Pizza hut could supply canteens in schools!!

amazing!! bloody Americans.

Do you need to lie down?

Wibbs

thattequilagirl wrote: »

Because life isn't black and white?

Because she feared not being believed? A fear that is substantiated by a quick read of this thread

Because she was suffering from some kind of PTSD?

Because she thought it might damage her career?

Indeed and I agree with you. However and it's a big however, the law rightfully has to operate by evidence and it seems in this case there is none. A society simply can't run along the lines of believe all those who claim to be victims and damn the accused. That's mob rule.

Sadly there is an element of that, especially around this crime. It's such a weighted word that any accusation gets attention and just as those muppets in that Irish court who shook the hands of a rapist because he was a "nice chap" and she had a "reputation", you can see why some could use such an accusation as leverage.

What needs more attention and support is for men and women to have more education and avenues to report and build a case against abusers and rapists and put them away for life.

tritium

Its a strange one. A key issue the judge apparently had with her claim was that she previously swore under oath that Dr Luke had never assaulted or drugged her as part of a separate contract dispute case with other producers.

ghostdancer

BattleCorp wrote: »

If Kesha was abused/raped:-

I can see why she didn't go to the police early on in her career? Some people put up with unacceptable behaviour if they are in a vulnerable position (such as someone starting out in the music business).

That said, she is no longer in a vulnerable position. Why has she still not gone to the police regarding this claim?

because going to the police would lead to a criminal trial which would actually require some proof.

it's very easy to make claims as part of a civil case regarding employment contracts when you know that the judge isn't ruling on whether or not those abuse allegations are true.

mickstupp

Yep. There it is. Knew I shouldn't have kept reading.

allibastor

Toobz wrote: »

Why are you so focused towards it being a lie by Kesha? If anything, that's jumping the gun.

AAmmm,, where I am saying its a lie, believe me I dont think it is or isnt.

I am simply going by what was said in court cases etc that no actual evidence was produced, coupled with the fact she hasn't made a police statement.

If it is true he deserves to has his knackers cut off.

BattleCorp

ghostdancer wrote: »

because going to the police would lead to a criminal trial which would actually require some proof.

it's very easy to make claims as part of a civil case regarding employment contracts when you know that the judge isn't ruling on whether or not those abuse allegations are true.

I'm genuinely curious about how the police deal with these types of claims.

Plenty of criminal trials for rape don't have much in the way of physical proof. I'm thinking specifically of historic rape claims.

How do you prove somebody raped you 15 years ago (or even one year ago) if you didn't go to the hospital at the time, gather DNA evidence etc.? Is it not pretty much one person's word against the other?

How do the police establish proof in these types of circumstances?

Wibbs

mickstupp wrote: »

Yep. There it is. Knew I shouldn't have kept reading.

I'm not sure what you mean M? Are you suggesting that accusations are enough and that this automatically renders the accused guilty? If this was say a theft case, would you automatically believe the plaintiff in the absence of any proof? Obviously this kind of crime is far more nuanced, but the requirement for reasonable proof should be in place before calling for the hangman?

ghostdancer

razorblunt wrote: »

I've not been following it closely either, there's no actual case against for rape right?
She's accused him of this and stated she no longer wants to work with him?

Strange that Sony don't just let he go to save face and be seeing to do the right thing, what do they have to gain for it?

yes, that's correct.
even though years later she has no problem making the claims in public, she seemingly still hasn't gone to police to report any of the alleged incidents.

her lawyers claim that she reported it her therapist, although i'm sure conveniently that can't be questioned in court due to patient confidentiality. :rolleyes:

presumably Sony don't want to cut loose due to investing millions and then having her sign a more favourable deal to her, now that she's an established star, and some other record company making millions from Sony's original investment. Sony have already said that they won't require her to work with Dr. Luke in the future, but Kesha's camp claim that Sony wouldn't bother promoting her material in future, so the contract should just be dissolved...

allibastor

Wibbs wrote: »

I'm not sure what you mean M? Are you suggesting that accusations are enough and that this automatically renders the accused guilty? If this was say a theft case, would you automatically believe the plaintiff in the absence of any proof? Obviously this kind of crime is far more nuanced, but the requirement for reasonable proof should be in place before calling for the hangman?

I agree with this. Dont get me wrong, it seems fishy to say the least.

I am just concerned as you said, no actual proof has been offered, one way or the other. But this chap has already been labelled as a rapist.
I know some jump on the gun of " oh well she said it, why you jumping to say she a liar" but at the same time, not saying she is lying is saying that he Might have done it.

I just thin a body of proof should be offered before it is allowed to go to twitter. If he is guilty he should have his name plastered EVERYWHERE, but if it turns out he is not guilty, his name will be muck now forever more.

ghostdancer

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'm genuinely curious about how the police deal with these types of claims.

Plenty of criminal trials for rape don't have much in the way of physical proof. I'm thinking specifically of historic rape claims.

How do you prove somebody raped you 15 years ago (or even one year ago) if you didn't go to the hospital at the time, gather DNA evidence etc.? Is it not pretty much one person's word against the other?

How do the police establish proof in these types of circumstances?

i don't know. i'd imagine it's better to actually report it now though rather than do nothing about it.

eviltwin

Speaking from personal experience sometimes it's easier just to say nothing. Sometimes you are too afraid to make a complaint. Sometimes you convince yourself that you were somehow responsible so you think everyone else will see it that way too. I don't know if Kesha is genuine or not but she doesn't automatically rated as a liar in my book because she didn't make this known previously. Whatever the story I think she should be released from her contract for both their benefits.

thattequilagirl

"When I was 17, someone stole my handbag with all my money in it." "That's terrible."

"When I was 17, I got beaten up after a night out." "That's awful!"

"When I was 17, my uncle raped me." "Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

smellslikeshoes

The producer wasn't convicted of a crime, if the judge had ruled in favour of Kesha it would have set a precedent that an accusation of abuse alone is enough to break a contract. Sony have said from the beginning that they are happy to let her work with a different producer.

everlast75

thattequilagirl wrote: »

"When I was 17, someone stole my handbag with all my money in it." "That's terrible." "Did you report it?"

"When I was 17, I got beaten up after a night out." "That's awful!""Why didn't you report it? Do you know who did it?"

"When I was 17, my uncle raped me." "Why didn't you report it? Why are you still in contact with him? What proof have you got?"

Corrected your post

Wibbs

eviltwin wrote: »

Speaking from personal experience sometimes it's easier just to say nothing. Sometimes you are too afraid to make a complaint. Sometimes you convince yourself that you were somehow responsible so you think everyone else will see it that way too.

Oh certainly I agree with that. Have seen it for myself. Sadly the practical problem is that years down the line unless there's proof or a confession then legally the crime "didn't happen".

I don't know if Kesha is genuine or not but she doesn't automatically rated as a liar in my book because she didn't make this known previously.

Ditto, though I am extremely suspicious of the timing, but most of all the previous sworn testimony that she made denying any wrongdoing by him. What ever is the truth she's not a reliable accuser. She either lied back then, or she's lying subsequently.

Whatever the story I think she should be released from her contract for both their benefits.

+1. She was what 18 when she signed it? Legal yeah but too young for that length of contract IMH. Plus if he were guilty you'd think he;d have avoided this kinda heat by just tearing up the contract?

ghostdancer

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The producer wasn't convicted of a crime, if the judge had ruled in favour of Kesha it would have set a precedent that an accusation of abuse alone is enough to break a contract. Sony have said from the beginning that they are happy to let her work with a different producer.

which isn't financially beneficial to Kesha as it keeps her in the contract she originally signed, so she has rejected that solution :rolleyes:

thattequilagirl

everlast75 wrote: »

Corrected your post

The point was, people tend to automatically believe someone who claims to be a victim of any crime other than rape. Rape is the only crime where you start questioning the character of the victim. This happens even when they do report it. Even if there are no suspects yet. This despite the fact that research shows around 92% of rape accusations are true, which is higher than other crimes.

And I could go away and Google the sources of that for you as I have done in the past on Boards, but you know what - do it yourself.

NiallBoo

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

The producer wasn't convicted of a crime, if the judge had ruled in favour of Kesha it would have set a precedent that an accusation of abuse alone is enough to break a contract. Sony have said from the beginning that they are happy to let her work with a different producer.

An absence of a rape conviction isn't a brick walk here, the burden of proof is very different for those two things.

The judge could decide there was enough reason to break the contract, even without there being enough evidence for an actual rape conviction.

rawn

smellslikeshoes wrote:

The producer wasn't convicted of a crime, if the judge had ruled in favour of Kesha it would have set a precedent that an accusation of abuse alone is enough to break a contract. Sony have said from the beginning that they are happy to let her work with a different producer.

I heard they are refusing to promote her if she does choose to work with a different producer

razorblunt

rawn wrote: »

I heard they are refusing to promote her if she does choose to work with a different producer

As above, that's the argument her legal team are making.
I don't think Sony would be silly enough to not push her stuff to the moon given the focus that will be on it.

I'd imagine some other company will buy her contract out, would be the best for both parties, though as someone originally said, that would almost be admitting liability on Sony's part, so they may want to keep her albums themselves.

osarusan

It's an ugly one.

The idea that a producer would exploit a young starlet is hardly shocking (I remember a scandal about an Italian modelling company whose male managers would only give contracts/work to the models who would sleep with them), but to have this trial by media only isn't fair either.

ghostdancer

thattequilagirl wrote: »

The point was, people tend to automatically believe someone who claims to be a victim of any crime other than rape. Rape is the only crime where you start questioning the character of the victim. This happens even when they do report it. Even if there are no suspects yet. This despite the fact that research shows around 92% of rape accusations are true, which is higher than other crimes.

And I could go away and Google the sources of that for you as I have done in the past on Boards, but you know what - do it yourself.

complete nonsense.

smellslikeshoes

rawn wrote: »

I heard they are refusing to promote her if she does choose to work with a different producer

Kesha's side have claimed that there wouldn't be as much promotion if it was a different producer which is possible I suppose but no refusal or anything from Sony, it wouldn't make sense to offer another producer and then refuse to promote the work if the offer was accepted.

suicide_circus

Deleted User wrote: »

The most idiotic idiom ever uttered.

You might want to change the battery on your sarcasm detector

ghostdancer

smellslikeshoes wrote: »

Kesha's side have claimed that there wouldn't be as much promotion if it was a different producer which is possible I suppose but no refusal or anything from Sony, it wouldn't make sense to offer another producer and then refuse to promote the work if the offer was accepted.

Sony are in the business of making money. if it's in their interests to promote an established star like Kesha, then they will. Kesha's claim that they wouldn't promote her doesn't really make sense as it makes little difference to Sony who produced the music as long as it sells.
she already has a number of songs produced by people other than Dr. Luke that Sony promoted.

BrokenArrows

Rape allegations should be kept 100% private until the person is found guilty.

If found innocent then the case should never be known to the public.

At the moment as soon as a man is accused of rape his life is over. Even if proven innocent no one will really believe it especially when they are a celebrity.

Personally I'd rather be accused of murder.

sbsquarepants

I don't really know enough about the details to comment but I did once hear Keisha tell Jonathan Ross that she once had sex with a ghost - take from that what you will.