Life is too short for bad coffee - The Off Topic thread

cnocbui

dominatinMC wrote: »

Superheating it - are you sure? Not sure how superheated steam can be achieved in the presence of water. Can you send on the paper if you get a chance, interested in reading it, cheers.

Well in a moka pot, the lower chamber becomes presssurised. The boiling point of water rises with pressure.

http://www.msc.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~phyexp/uploads/Moka/article2.pdf

Technocentral

Was out of Cloudpicker SAM beans and got Two Fifty Square Brazil beans as Cloud picker was closed, not impressed far too bitter and not great in general , anyone know similar tasting beans to Sam for future reference?

J_E

cnocbui wrote: »

Speaking of sad....

ok

mad m wrote: »

So how would I go about getting better shots with my setup?

Some options;

You could use a scales under your cup to measure the output against time, or get the likes of a shot glass with ml measure. If you can measure how much comes out in a certain amount of time, you now have 3 solid variables you can play with (coffee weight, coffee out, time) and can adjust grind. The general rule is you want to try and only change one thing at a time, so let's say you have a 14g basket. You want to try for 14g in, 28g out, in 25 seconds. You can adjust grind to start, and if you can't get it right between 2 grind steps, you can keep the grind the same and slightly adjust dose by .5g to affect the time.

Bear in mind, some grinders may have retained grounds, so if you are changing coarseness, it never hurts to grind out a few grams in between to clear the previous setting.

Important rule with dialing in espresso - keep it simple, measured and repeatable for tasty results.

Technocentral wrote: »

Was out of Cloudpicker SAM beans and got Two Fifty Square Brazil beans as Cloud picker was closed, not impressed far too bitter and not great in general , anyone know similar tasting beans to Sam for future reference?

Try Full Circle's Sao Joao.

dominatinMC

cnocbui wrote: »

Well in a moka pot, the lower chamber becomes presssurised. The boiling point of water rises with pressure.

http://www.msc.univ-paris-diderot.fr/~phyexp/uploads/Moka/article2.pdf

Cheers, interesting study. The steam isn't superheated though, it's saturation temperature has increased (with pressure) as you said, but it's still just saturated steam. Probably getting in to semantics now :pac:

cnocbui

dominatinMC wrote: »

Cheers, interesting study. The steam isn't superheated though, it's saturation temperature has increased (with pressure) as you said, but it's still just saturated steam. Probably getting in to semantics now :pac:

Not stream, but above the 93° that's around the optimum.

DaveyDave

Would 16g Vs 18g have much impact on pressure? Have the Barista Express set to the finest grind setting and got no pressure so adjusted the internal burr to 3, I think it's normally on 5 and people find going down one setting helps but mine was already on 4. I'll have to go down to 2 now and see.

On the lowest grind amount I was getting close to 19g, finer grind seems to lessen the amount, I've turned the grind amount up one step from the lowest setting now and get 16.5g with my current beans.

I'll drop the internal burr another step and see if that gets anymore pressure. Surprised I'm this far off default settings, most videos I'm seeing keep it at grind 8, 5 internal burr and maybe drop it to 6-7 if needed. I know every coffee is different but I don't see anyone adjusting this much.

Bluefoam

Sounds to me that you might be going in the wrong direction... Coffee is too fine and is clogging up the basket.

Return the internal burr to 6 (or factory setting) and try a 9g basket on a 14 grind... This helped me allot. Aim for 19g consistently and play with the grind size.

The leveled of internal burr are only for when the burrs are blunted (after years) and each step has the effect of a multiple of 10 on the grind scale... So, if you are on internal burr 6 and 14 grind, if you change to 5 and 14, you are effectively getting a grind size of 4... Etc.

DaveyDave

Bluefoam wrote: »

Sounds to me that you might be going in the wrong direction... Coffee is too fine and is clogging up the basket.

Return the internal burr to 6 (or factory setting) and try a 9g basket on a 14 grind... This helped me allot. Aim for 19g consistently and play with the grind size.

The leveled of internal burr are only for when the burrs are blunted (after years) and each step has the effect of a multiple of 10 on the grind scale... So, if you are on internal burr 6 and 14 grind, if you change to 5 and 14, you are effectively getting a grind size of 4... Etc.

Everything I'm reading and watch suggests no pressure means it's not fine enough though? No matter what grind, amount or tamp I do the shots are coming out in 10 seconds. Everything on the internet is pointing to needing a finer grind?

I think I may be confusing myself here. There's no pressure and Im getting 1:3 shots in 10 seconds.

adrian522

What do you mean by no pressure? No coffee comes out of the portafilter?

If that is the case you need to adjust the grind to a coarser grind.

cnocbui

He needs a finer grind - the puck is offering little to no resistance, so there is not enough extraction happening.

adrian522

cnocbui wrote: »

He needs a finer grind - the puck is offering little to no resistance, so there is not enough extraction happening.

He needs a coarser grind not a finer grind. The finer the grind the slower the flow will be. IF there is no flow he needs to go coarser so he can get some espresso into the cup.

He says he is already at the finest setting.

IF it was too coarse you would get coffee gushing out and filling the cup in a few seconds.

cnocbui

His grinder can't go fine enough; the machine is pumping at it's capacity and encountering little to no resistance, which is why the flow rate is the same at all grind settings.

DaveyDave

Sorry if I caused confusion. When I say no pressure I mean there's very little, almost none.

The end result with ~17g grind is almost no pressure, 10 second extraction from first drip, 50-55g result. That's why I was asking is there much difference between 16-18g of coffee. The Barista Express manual suggests 18-20g coffee, I wonder if 17g is too little coffee for the machine. I'll try upping the dose a bit.

My understanding was if it's too quick I need finer coffee to slow down the flow, forcing more pressure.

adrian522

I still don't know what you mean by no pressure? The machine should handle that amount of coffee , just go with a coarser grind, until you are getting a shot in 25 to 30 seconds. Aim for the espresso to be double the weight of the ground coffee.

alec76

I am suggesting that internal grinder is one piece of sh*te and simply couldn't go fine enough.
Try different beans.Grinding some of the beans could be quite challenging .
What beans are they?

alec76

adrian522 wrote: »

I still don't know what you mean by no pressure? The machine should handle that amount of coffee , just go with a coarser grind, until you are getting a shot in 25 to 30 seconds. Aim for the espresso to be double the weight of the ground coffee.

Pressure is fine, his English is not , apparently.
His shot is too fast and for some reason he calls it "no pressure"
There are too much of pressure , obviously.

DaveyDave

alec76 wrote: »

Pressure is fine, his English is not , apparently.
His shot is too fast and for some reason he calls it "no pressure"

I'm just going by what the pressure gauge on the machine is reading, which I understand to not follow too closely, I'm just using it as a guide to help getting things dialed in, along with a timer and scales. Feel free to take that variable out of the equation.

Beans are Bell Lane Moondust, roasted last week. If I need to grind finer I'll adjust the internal burr. I haven't seen anyone mention the internal adjustments are to account for wear, at that rate you'd just replace it.

alec76

It is obviously the grinder issue.Try to adjust the burrs if it is possible.

adrian522

Ok, think I understand now, you are getting 55g of coffee in just 10 seconds?

Definitely a problem with the grinder in that case.

DaveyDave

adrian522 wrote: »

Ok, think I understand now, you are getting 55g of coffee in just 10 seconds?

Definitely a problem with the grinder in that case.

Correct, 10 seconds from first drip. I believe some people count the pre-infusion when timing which is around 5 seconds.

By no pressure I meant the gauge was showing no pressure, I can see where that would cause confusion.

I'll readjust the burr and see how I get on.

cnocbui

DaveyDave wrote: »

Sorry if I caused confusion. When I say no pressure I mean there's very little, almost none.

The end result with ~17g grind is almost no pressure, 10 second extraction from first drip, 50-55g result. That's why I was asking is there much difference between 16-18g of coffee. The Barista Express manual suggests 18-20g coffee, I wonder if 17g is too little coffee for the machine. I'll try upping the dose a bit.

My understanding was if it's too quick I need finer coffee to slow down the flow, forcing more pressure.

Are you using a single shot or double shot basket? When I use my single shot basket, there isn't much latitude with increasing how much coffee I use, as it's always full to the point closing the carrier compresses the coffee and leaves an impression of the shower screen retaining screw in the puck.

DaveyDave

cnocbui wrote: »

Are you using a single shot or double shot basket? When I use my single shot basket, there isn't much latitude with increasing how much coffee I use, as it's always full to the point closing the carrier compresses the coffee and leaves an impression of the shower screen retaining screw in the puck.

Using the double shot the whole time.

cnocbui

Ahhh - try using the single shot, the finest grind and fill the basket with as much as it will take and still let the carrier mount, and see if that doesn't get you some back pressure.

J_E

DaveyDave wrote: »

Would 16g Vs 18g have much impact on pressure? Have the Barista Express set to the finest grind setting and got no pressure so adjusted the internal burr to 3, I think it's normally on 5 and people find going down one setting helps but mine was already on 4. I'll have to go down to 2 now and see.

On the lowest grind amount I was getting close to 19g, finer grind seems to lessen the amount, I've turned the grind amount up one step from the lowest setting now and get 16.5g with my current beans.

I'll drop the internal burr another step and see if that gets anymore pressure. Surprised I'm this far off default settings, most videos I'm seeing keep it at grind 8, 5 internal burr and maybe drop it to 6-7 if needed. I know every coffee is different but I don't see anyone adjusting this much.

What coffee are you using? The less fresh it is the finer you have to go before it produces a serviceable shot. Have you tried using a different bean? Supermarket beans often won't produce results you want.

How's your tamp, too hard/sudden will fracture the puck particularly at finer settings and it'll shoot through immediately as a watery puck. Level out the coffee bed and instead of trying to tamp with your whole arm, get four fingers on the four diagonals of the tamp and push down evenly and firmly until you feel the tamp stop. This is a handy way of checking if your tamp is level as you'll feel the edges against the basket. Don't underestimate the importance of correct tamping. It's more about even pressure than heaviness.

I used to have some awful problems using a VST basket where shots would constantly run too fast - it turns out it was my distribution and tamping at fault.

Keep your dose at a set amount, say 17g, and perhaps try another set of beans you know to be fresher and roasted for espresso.

cnocbui wrote: »

Ahhh - try using the single shot, the finest grind and fill the basket with as much as it will take and still let the carrier mount, and see if that doesn't get you some back pressure.

If you overfill a basket, the shot doesn't have any space to bloom, and there's a chance the grounds will flush back into the machine, building up a mess internally - it's the reason baskets marked for a set weight always have a certain amount of headspace. If the machine doesn't have a 3 way valve, it does a giant messy sneeze if it doesn't have space after the pressure drops.

caviardreams

Just got a Bell Lane order this morning - roast date 29th May. Ordered Sunday 31st. They emailed me a coupon for my next order too. Top service.

mad m

caviardreams wrote: »

Just got a Bell Lane order this morning - roast date 29th May. Ordered Sunday 31st. They emailed me a coupon for my next order too. Top service.

ordered Cloudpickers Sam,Got it yesterday roast date 28th May, hmmmm.

Del007

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Picked up some Slumberjack coffee in Aldi earlier. Actually had a roast date on it too. Mine was 10th April.

I got a few bags of their coffee and really liked it, sadly they won't be restocking it

cnocbui

Del007 wrote: »

I got a few bags of their coffee and really liked it, sadly they won't be restocking it

They still had some in my local Aldi on Tuesday.

Del007

cnocbui wrote: »

They still had some in my local Aldi on Tuesday.

Did they have the large black bags of the Italian Espresso?

cnocbui

I don't know. Are you after some?