Sticky situation with customs

goochy

She seems very stubborn . I would say she's from Cavan ??? Doesn't want to spend a penny ! Lol

Mod: Do not post in this thread again.

Marcusm

goochy wrote: »

She seems very stubborn . I would say she's from Cavan ??? Doesn't want to spend a penny ! Lol

Cute Cork hoors and mean Cavan bastards; any other lazy generalisations?

bear1

What people aren't realising here is that the sister has only been in ni since October.
So.for.arguments sake she moved there on the 1/10 until the end of the calender year is 92 days she spent in ni which is below the threshold.
In 2015 her residency was in the south irrespective of anything else. So if she was driving a uk car as an Irish resident then this isn't legal.
For her to be ok being a resident abroad she'd need to show proof she is more than 185 days away from the south.

newcavanman

Does her driving license have a UK address? I think that if it doesnt then you are facing an uphill battle

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

What people aren't realising here is that the sister has only been in ni since October.
So.for.arguments sake she moved there on the 1/10 until the end of the calender year is 92 days she spent in ni which is below the threshold.
In 2015 her residency was in the south irrespective of anything else. So if she was driving a uk car as an Irish resident then this isn't legal.
For her to be ok being a resident abroad she'd need to show proof she is more than 185 days away from the south.

Her Irish insurance wont cover her at a UK address long term nor will she technically be allowed to keep an irish reg car long term if living in the UK so what is she supposed to do? Have two cars and swap at the border?

Surely this sort of rubbish from customs goes totally against free movement within the EU etc.

TheChizler

I think it goes without saying that any written correspondence with customs should probably be sent with a return address in the north.

sunnysoutheast

Marcusm wrote: »

The income tax treatment and residence for income tax is not directly relevant for VRT. VRT has specific rules about residence. You are generally treated as resident where you spend 185 days per year but this can be overridden where your personal and occupational (work) ties are in different countries. It sounds here as if the woman is in a complex category as she originated in the Republic, continues to work there and has significant personal ties there (considering her children are minded there by family members). Is she married or does she live with a partner in NI? Such personal ties would be more significant, I expect. Irrespective, if she is returning to NI each evening, I don't see that it would be established that she spends 185 days in the Republic as general convention, albeit derived from income tax, is that one only spends a day somewhere if you re there at midnight.

This sounds like a genuine case which has become more difficult as Customs are likely acting on a tip off and are predisposed not to believe her.

The law requires that

[COLOR=rgb(13.700000%, 12.200000%, 12.500000%)]Proof of normal residence may be given by means of documents relating to the acquisition of property or to employment of cessation of employment or to other transactions carried out in the course of day to day living and, in addition to or in substitution for the foregoing documents or any of them, any other documentary evidence the Commissioners require or accept. [/COLOR]




Tell her to try and pull as many of these together, and send them to Customs asking them for a statement why they are insufficient. Include in the letter a statement requesting them to confirm that, as she is engaging with them, that they suspend any seizure of the vehicle.

Not strictly relevant to the OP's situation but the "present at midnight" rule for tax residency changed some time ago. A day counts against the tests if present in Ireland at any time during it, except for edge conditions around airport transit etc.

mfceiling

Alvaro Better Vocation wrote: »

Her Irish insurance wont cover her at a UK address long term nor will she technically be allowed to keep an irish reg car long term if living in the UK so what is she supposed to do? Have two cars and swap at the border?

Surely this sort of rubbish from customs goes totally against free movement with the EU etc.

This baffles me as well. What if she's reported to the customs in the north now for driving a southern reg car in the north, and they want her to register the car to the north?

Charles Babbage

mfceiling wrote: »

This baffles me as well. What if she's reported to the customs in the north now for driving a southern reg car in the north, and they want her to register the car to the north?

They don't bother, of course, as cars are less expensive there. But in any case they would not be able to after such a short period for someone whose personal ties remain in the 26 counties.

The OPs sister would have been wise not to be in such a rush to change her car.

esforum

ba_barabus wrote: »

It makes a huge difference.

While she may be live in the north she could be tax resident in Ireland as she works and pays taxes here . Which is what appears to be the case.

doesnt the UK and republic have a double taxation agreement? Most within the eu have a double agreement so where you earn it doesnt matter.

sunnysoutheast

Alvaro Better Vocation wrote: »

Her Irish insurance wont cover her at a UK address long term nor will she technically be allowed to keep an irish reg car long term if living in the UK so what is she supposed to do? Have two cars and swap at the border?

Surely this sort of rubbish from customs goes totally against free movement with the EU etc.

I think the issue is the the car has an NI reg but the OP can only show tax residency in NI from October, although it appears that the personal ties would all be in NI.

Surely she would need to have NI insurance which covers travel to IE given the situation described? Must be hundreds of people who have that.

Charles Babbage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

They don't bother, of course, as cars are less expensive there. But in any case they would not be able to after such a short period for someone whose personal ties remain in the 26 counties.

The OPs sister would have been wise not to be in such a rush to change her car.

It may not be an issue now but say in 3 years time, the op will still be commuting to the south everyday but will be living a few years in the north. She wont be covered by Irish insurance, she cant renew it to her actual address she would need to be giving her home address etc which would void her insurance if found out. You are also not allowed to have an Irish reg car in the UK indefinitely, they will consider her resident when living there.

Travelling to Ireland daily on NI insurance wont be an issue but a car "sleeping" every night in NI with Irish insurance is an issue.

Charles Babbage

esforum wrote: »

doesnt the UK and republic have a double taxation agreement? Most within the eu have a double agreement so where you earn it doesnt matter.

More irrelevancy.

This has nothing to do with income tax.

It may not be an issue now but say in 3 years time,

I wouldn't suggest waiting 3 years, but even most of a year would establish the permanent nature of the move better and give her more time to accumulate evidence of having moved. Normal residence is not an ephemeral thing, it is a substantially permanent move and this cannot be shown in the first few months.

sunnysoutheast

Alvaro Better Vocation wrote: »

It may not be an issue now but say in 3 years time, the op will still be commuting to the south everyday but will be living a few years in the north. She wont be covered by Irish insurance, she cant renew it to her actual address she would need to be giving her home address etc which would void her insurance if found out. You are also not allowed to have an Irish reg car in the UK indefinitely, they will consider her resident when living there.

Travelling to Ireland daily on NI insurance wont be an issue but a car "sleeping" every night in NI with Irish insurance is an issue.

The car has an NI reg. , NI insurance and the OP's sister has moved to NI.

That is my reading of it anyway.

Given that I'm not sure why customs are so interested, unless there is other information which has yet to appear.

ba_barabus

esforum wrote: »

doesnt the UK and republic have a double taxation agreement?

I can't remember the exact rule but the way it was explained to me was that you pay in whichever jurisdiction charges the most (I could have that slightly mixed up but I think it's along those lines).

I don't think that in particular matters either way in this case as pointed out above.

ba_barabus

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

unless there is other information which has yet to appear.

How long have they owned the car in question and driven it on UK plates.

I still reckon Customs are acting on a tip off and have been observing the cars movements for a while.

esforum

Charles Babbage wrote: »

More irrelevancy.

This has nothing to do with income tax.

I agree so try shouting at Ba Barabus who brought it up

Voodoomelon

So the only stipulation to have a northern registered car is to have a rented or purchased property in the north and be able to prove you spend 185 days a year there? Which presumably is proved by mortgage payments or rental payments?

If income tax is irrelevant, is the above all that is required?

If so, a £50 a week bedsit could work out pretty cheap for someone saving €10,000 in VRT, €1800 motor tax and high insurance on a big car.

Kristopherus

OP, ask your sister to make a complaint to the Ombudsman. Their office will investigate all complaints against the Civil and Public Service, which includes Customs & Excise. They are independent and free.

Charles Babbage

Voodoomelon wrote: »

If so, a £50 a week bedsit could work out pretty cheap for someone saving €10,000 in VRT, €1800 motor tax and high insurance on a big car.

yes, but you would have to live in it!

And the insurance would not be much different.

Voodoomelon

Why would you have to live in it? To have realistic utility bills? If you knew someone up the north, you could have them stick you on the rental agreement, job done?

VRT and tax would be huge savings. I'm not discussing anything illegal here mods by the way, just sticking to the facts and the criteria required.

Charles Babbage

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Why would you have to live in it? To have realistic utility bills? If you knew someone up the north, you could have them stick you on the rental agreement, job done?

VRT and tax would be huge savings. I'm not discussing anything illegal here mods by the way, just sticking to the facts and the criteria required.

The criteria are based on where you live, not on where you rent or own property.

NIMAN

Voodoomelon wrote: »

So the only stipulation to have a northern registered car is to have a rented or purchased property in the north and be able to prove you spend 185 days a year there? Which presumably is proved by mortgage payments or rental payments?

If income tax is irrelevant, is the above all that is required?

If so, a £50 a week bedsit could work out pretty cheap for someone saving €10,000 in VRT, €1800 motor tax and high insurance on a big car.

My insurance is a fair bit cheaper in Ireland than it was in NI.

bear1

OP, you need to ask your sister when she actually bought the car on NI plates. If she was driving pre-October with this car in the South then therein lies her problem.

sunnysoutheast

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

The car has an NI reg. , NI insurance and the OP's sister has moved to NI.

That is my reading of it anyway.

That is the situation, there is no question about that at all. The question is why she isn't being allowed to drive her car from her home in NI to her job in the south without being hasseled.

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Given that I'm not sure why customs are so interested.

Most likely because they are idiots who think they can do what they want and have far too much power imo. Suppose now that washed diesel isn't a big deal they have to occupy themselves hassling people.

bear1 wrote: »

OP, you need to ask your sister when she actually bought the car on NI plates. If she was driving pre-October with this car in the South then therein lies her problem.

He has already confirmed she bought it after moving up.

bear1

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/temporary-exemption-foreign-registered.html

millington

**** me some people on here are worse than customs! :eek:

I'd like to know what you all expect her to do? If her address is in Northern Ireland how could she possibly import the car to the South since she has no address here. She couldn't insure it in the South either.

Shes clearly living in Northern Ireland and has the right to drive a Northern car. Would they be so quick to let a southern person working in the North drive a Northern car? I don't think so!!! :rolleyes:

bear1

millington wrote: »

**** me some people on here are worse than customs! :eek:

I'd like to know what you all expect her to do? If her address is in Northern Ireland how could she possibly import the car to the South since she has no address here. She couldn't insure it in the South either.

Shes clearly living in Northern Ireland and has the right to drive a Northern car. Would they be so quick to let a southern person working in the North drive a Northern car? I don't think so!!! :rolleyes:

According to the statute I linked, she is not resident in Northern Ireland. Not until at least 185 days have been reached.
She went in October, which is just over 3 months and hence below the min amount which means she is still classed as resident in the Republic which would then make it illegal for her to drive a foreign registered car.
How to get around that I don't know, I think she'd need to declare it to the authorities she no longer lives in the state.

savagethegoat

I suspect that the Taxman thinks she took up residence in NI to avoid tax here, especially as she is still in the same job. She will need to show that she drives from her home in NI to work in the Republic every working day and that she spends the rest of her time actually being in NI and living her life there.

zizou_

Voodoomelon wrote: »

So the only stipulation to have a northern registered car is to have a rented or purchased property in the north and be able to prove you spend 185 days a year there? Which presumably is proved by mortgage payments or rental payments?

If income tax is irrelevant, is the above all that is required?

If so, a £50 a week bedsit could work out pretty cheap for someone saving €10,000 in VRT, €1800 motor tax and high insurance on a big car.

I know someone who tried this - he lived and worked in ROI but had a NI reg, taxed and insured car for years. He had a NI property to back all this up. Unfortunately (for him) he was stopped by customs and he was done for VRT incl penalties. His problem was he had an ROI residence, was married down here and worked here. They knew all this as he was stopped so it wasn't a random check imo.