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Scotland v England - match thread

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    #122
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    LorMal wrote: »
    My experience is the English rugby supporters love the Irish and the trip to Dublin is by far their favourite 6nations away destination. Their 'auld enemy' is the French.

    different countries have different rivals. France and England would traditionally be the two big leagues so Le Crunch exists between them. Ireland, Scotland and Wales would traditionally be the lesser sides in their eyes so they would see england as the big 'enemy'.


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    #123
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    aimee1 wrote: »
    different countries have different rivals. France and England would traditionally be the two big leagues so Le Crunch exists between them. Ireland, Scotland and Wales would traditionally be the lesser sides in our eyes so we see england as the big 'enemy'.

    I know. It's a bit pathetic really isn't it?


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    #124
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    LorMal wrote: »
    I know. It's a bit pathetic really isn't it?

    No its not. Sport without rivalry is mundane.


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    #125
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    MJohnston wrote: »
    You're confusing sporting rivalry for actual dislike (though undoubtedly there is some of that)

    Nope. I think maybe there is a new breed of rugby 'supporter.


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    #126
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    aimee1 wrote: »
    No its not. Sport without rivalry is mundane.

    Rivalry requires 2 rivals.


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    #127
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    LorMal wrote: »
    Nope. I think maybe there is a new breed of rugby 'supporter.

    Come off it. Thats nonsense. Its traditional in sport to want to see your big rival lose. Its nothing new.


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    #128
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    My point is that England don't view us as rivals. Opponents yes, rivals no. The hostility of many Irish people towards all England teams is an anachronism and a poor reflection on how history is thought here.


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    #129
    aimee1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,290 ✭✭✭aimee1


    LorMal wrote: »
    My point is that England don't view us as rivals. Opponents yes, rivals no. The hostility of many Irish people towards all England teams is an anachronism and a poor reflection on how history is thought here.

    Rivalries work differently. The soccer one is mainly down to that team failing at big comps time and again after so much hype about them. Its a mix of different things. History has a part to play too but i think for a lot of ppl the underdog thing rings true too.

    Rivalries are not necessarily two way. Big country against smaller one in rugby terms. We see them differently to how they see us.


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    #130
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    LorMal wrote: »
    My point is that England don't view us as rivals. Opponents yes, rivals no. The hostility of many Irish people towards all England teams is an anachronism and a poor reflection on how history is thought here.

    Honestly, if history was thought with any greater accuracy we'd have to find some neutral venue for our home games against England.

    It's a healthy rivalry with no bitterness or bite. We enjoy it. I enjoy it, and no one needs to appologise for it.

    The six nations keeps going the way it is and we're going to have to find some historical complaint against Wales as a bit of aul fuel.


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    #131
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    English Lurker wrote: »
    You know that feeling when you've ordered something really cool, and you hear the knock on the door and you get down to find it's the postie but instead of your order, it's actually a parcel full of socks from your aunt? Yeah, you need socks, but you're still disappointed that you've got wait for what you actually wanted...

    I think there were signs that what you ordered is on the way though. Your defence looked good and you were looking that bit more threatening with ball in hand. It's still only week 2 really so very early days. At least today showed something to build on.

    Plus you were a lot shrewder up front and a lot less nice. That in itself is an improvement.


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    #132
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    LorMal wrote: »
    My point is that England don't view us as rivals. Opponents yes, rivals no. The hostility of many Irish people towards all England teams is an anachronism and a poor reflection on how history is thought here.

    There are 2 distinct things going on there. One is the ridiculous bigotry that still exists with some people. It's there and there's no point in any of us denying that.

    However it's a far smaller issue now than it was. Generally Irish people support the Scots because they are the underdogs and we feel more of a connection to them than the English. English fans would often cheer for the French opponents as well let's not forget. So a lot of it is innocent enough stuff. You're getting worked up over it and tarring a lot of people with the same brush, but the fact is most probably aren't doing what you think they are doing.


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    #133
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    I think it's deadly when England lose at sports.


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    #134
    LorMal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,372 ✭✭✭LorMal


    I am far from 'worked up'. I am not talking about friendly rivalry. You know the type (all too prevalent). They would support an ISIS select 15, captained by Mullah Omar, versus England.


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    #135
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    LorMal wrote: »
    I am far from 'worked up'.
    They would support an ISIS select 15, captained by Mullah Omar, versus England.

    actually, i think you are


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    #136
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,929 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    People can dislike England for whatever reason they want. As long as we're not booing anthems or making it uncomfortable for fans who travel to games it doesn't matter one bit why we don't like them. Nobody likes them. They know everyone wants them to loose and they couldn't give a fat rats so why should anyone else?


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    #137
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,603 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    I have only read the last few posts, but I want it to be known, I prefer England over to Wales any day.


    "we may not be any good, but at least we turn up"

    John Pullin (roughly)


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    #138
    English Lurker
    Registered Users Posts: 609 ✭✭✭English Lurker


    molloyjh wrote: »
    I think there were signs that what you ordered is on the way though. Your defence looked good and you were looking that bit more threatening with ball in hand. It's still only week 2 really so very early days. At least today showed something to build on.

    Plus you were a lot shrewder up front and a lot less nice. That in itself is an improvement.

    I dunno mollyjh, I've been sent the "your item has been dispatched" e-mail an awful lot over the years...

    I'm still not entirely sure what I make of it but in any case, how Jones reacts to his first match is more important than the first match itself.

    The one thing I would question is the shrewder/nastier thing. I thought England gave away some pretty dumb penalties and Lacey could have easily issued a few more for high tackles and swinging arms. Personally I'm somewhat alarmed by the number of penalty magnets in this England team; as things stand, they will cost us games.

    I'm for all Jones wanting a more aggressive attitude, but not at the expense of discipline - or talent.
    errlloyd wrote: »
    I have only read the last few posts, but I want it to be known, I prefer England over to Wales any day.


    "we may not be any good, but at least we turn up"

    John Pullin (roughly)

    Tallest midgets eh ;)


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    #139
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,484 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How long does this northern hemisphere inferiority complex need to last before people can just start enjoying the six nations again.

    First game of the season under a new coach and they looked very comfortable against Scotland. I'd have been delighted if that was Ireland today.

    I actually think the group of players England have are quite good but for one reason or another have failed to click and deliver.

    What I think is interesting after today is that Jones basically kept them playing very similarly to how Lancaster had them playing. Maybe a bit smarter and more organised around the breakdown in the sense that they altered throughout periods of the game the numbers and intensity that they put down after the ball.

    Other than that though it seems to make sense that with only a few weeks with the team, the coach is looking to do the same thing with the right selections. I'd say this time next year England will start to shape up differently, but I wouldn't be surprised if their very much in the mix for the title this year.

    Not that it matters of course, sure were all ****e up this part of the world!

    I wish they'd do a bit more with their backs though - select the likes of Slade (injured, I know) and Daly.

    Really don't think Ford and Farrell is the future for their 10, 12 combination.

    Their defence was good, but requires the usual asterix of being measured against the Scottish attack - who once again seem clueless in the "red zone".

    TBH, England got what they wanted which was a first up win, and I agree they never looked like losing.

    Ireland should look to close down Vunipola on the gain line, which would force England to find other ways to get go-forward.


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    #140
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,123 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just looking at a mad stat from teh telegraph

    scotland had only 1 scrum in that whole game whereas england had 14 !

    just shows how miserly, protective and restricted england are in possession.... whereas scotland probably fling it about too much :)


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    #141
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,123 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    just looking at a mad stat from teh telegraph

    scotland had only 1 scrum in that whole game whereas england had 14 !

    just shows how miserly, protective and restricted england are in possession.... whereas scotland probably fling it about too much :)


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    #142
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Another mad stat is that Scotland, France, Italy and Ireland all made 7 line breaks while England made 3 and Wales 0. I found it odd that 4 teams ended up with the same number.


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