General Election 2016 - Louth Constituiency

10green bottles

Saoirse Spoiled Camel wrote: »

You lost me there. Just a snide remark when I simply told the truth was it? I have no intention of conversing with any HQ of any party.

No point in me doing snide remarks.I'm telling you the truth whilst you seem to be towing the FG party line of "everything to do with jobs is fine" and you throw out what is almost the party line on the matter.The truth is that well educated and skilled people are being put on training courses that they don't want,need or like.Almost being bullied on to them just because they're on the dole and a lot of them already have the skill offered!

White Horse

10green bottles wrote: »

Presidential prerogative is not limited to what party the President is from so don't make it out as if it is ' (and he is a Labour man )'

Decisions are often influenced by one's beliefs and ideology, even at the highest level.

Just watch the coming battle between the Republicans and the Democrats for the recently vacated sport on the U.S. Supreme Court. Even judges allow their personal views to influence their decisions.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

10green bottles wrote: »

No point in me doing snide remarks.I'm telling you the truth whilst you seem to be towing the FG party line of "everything to do with jobs is fine" and you throw out what is almost the party line on the matter.The truth is that well educated and skilled people are being put on training courses that they don't want,need or like.Almost being bullied on to them just because they're on the dole and a lot of them already have the skill offered!

I can't comment on that because I have no experience of it. But I stand by my original comment that all MY family are now in good well paying jobs and they are in the careers they studied for and wanted. Whilst 5 years ago this was sadly far from the case for us. If this is, in your opinion, a party line then so be it. But I suspect you'd accuse anybody with any positive angle on things of towing some line or other.

White Horse

Saoirse Spoiled Camel wrote: »

I can't comment on that because I have no experience of it. But I stand by my original comment that all MY family are now in good well paying jobs and they are in the careers they studied for and wanted. Whilst 5 years ago this was sadly far from the case for us.

This is my experience also.

I cannot criticise the government for their management of the economy. If the country sticks with the current policies, it will be in a terrific place in 5 years time.

whippet

White Horse wrote: »

This is my experience also.

I cannot criticise the government for their management of the economy. If the country sticks with the current policies, it will be in a terrific place in 5 years time.

absolutely agree.

My company are having the best opening quarter to a financial year since 2006, we supply infrastructure and services to a very broad range of industries.

What I can see in real terms is real activity in the economy and jobs being created by our customers creating a demand for our services.

While I accept that there will always be some people struggling it would be grossly unfair to say that the recovery is not happening.


One caveat I have - much of the growth rate is to do with external factors (interest / exchange rates and oil prices).

Governments don't create jobs - but they can create an economic environment which allows businesses to create jobs.

Lord TSC

Saoirse Spoiled Camel wrote: »

I can't comment on that because I have no experience of it. But I stand by my original comment that all MY family are now in good well paying jobs and they are in the careers they studied for and wanted. Whilst 5 years ago this was sadly far from the case for us.

Fair play if your life has had a positive turn around like that. But when you stick with anecdotal evidence like that, then you're not going to win many arguments if others have the flip side view.

For me, the last five years has seen most of my friends and a large chunk of loved ones driven abroad, or forced on the dole. Those who get jobs tend to be stuck in zero contract hours, scrapping together a living. For me, it feels as if FG has utterly sacrificed a generation in a bid to "fix" things. Perhaps you're lucky and fall outside that generation. But there are so many families torn apart in the last few years cause of things the government have overseen.

Mada999's post summed up a lot of problems for me; Irish Water's mishandling, cronyism, forcing a generation to emigrate. Add to that the damage done to the public sector (hospitals are disaster zones, Gardai presence ever dropping, the casualisation of education, all the while new trainees in those areas getting ****ed over), the cowardice shown towards Mirkel, the rise of the Zero Hour Contract, the joke that was Jobbridge, the handling of the Gay Marriage (fair play they called the vote, but sat on the fence and let those against it openly lie and scare monger)....there's just no way I could ever justify voting for FG or Labour as they are. Nor, by the way, could I vote for FF cause they started the problems.

Still, I find it hard to see past a FF/FG coalition right now. They, despite what they say, will happily jump into bed together to retain power. No one will have enough to form a government without another party, and I'd be shocked if we don't see Kenny and Martin snuggling up together.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Lord TSC wrote: »

Fair play if your life has had a positive turn around like that. But when you stick with anecdotal evidence like that, then you're not going to win many arguments if others have the flip side view.

Just for clarity. This was not in any form anecdotal to me but actual fact.

I'm not looking to win any argument and only stated my personal experience. It is not adversarial in the slightest. I'm currently just a disinterested, note not uninterested, voter looking at how policies have or can affect me and my family.

whippet

Lord TSC wrote: »

For me, the last five years has seen most of my friends and a large chunk of loved ones driven abroad, or forced on the dole. Those who get jobs tend to be stuck in zero contract hours, scrapping together a living. For me, it feels as if FG has utterly sacrificed a generation in a bid to "fix" things. Perhaps you're lucky and fall outside that generation. But there are so many families torn apart in the last few years cause of things the government have overseen.

as you said everyone will have a different view and opinion - hence why we have such a broad spectrum of politicians in this country .. each adamant their reading of the situation is correct.

White Horse

I just want to clarify that the first three years of the outgoing government were grim. The austerity programme to correct the mess made by the previous FF/Green government caused a lot of hardship.

The recovery that I was referring to has really started in the last year.

It is my belief that the country is on the right track.

mada999

White Horse wrote: »

I just want to clarify that the first three years of the outgoing government were grim. The austerity programme to correct the mess made by the previous FF/Green government caused a lot of hardship.

The recovery that I was referring to has really started in the last year.

It is my belief that the country is on the right track.

Just a question though, which of FG's policies has caused the 'recovery' ?

The followed FF's plan after the bailout, and then the Trioka came in and they had to implement austerity. I'm just trying to get a handle on how they have caused this recovery, from my view it's the euro's currency position and the cheap oil that have mostly caused it - heck exports are up 20%.

SME's and multinationals have created jobs (remember the govt doesn't create jobs).

So if the country is on the right track, why go an abolish the USC ? I think it's madness - at the moment we have a dire health service, dire roads which all need fixing. Where are they going to get the money to do this ? They say through jobs ? But there's no guarantee that these jobs will be created by multinationals.

Someone said they are happy that there will be tax cuts? But do you not think that they have to get the money through other means ? Car Tax , Water Tax, Property Tax - I believe these will all go up and the big one - College fee's - They are already lining up a student loans system, they are hardly going to give a student loan for €3,500 are they? Haven't the fee's already gone up under this govt?

People are not really seeing the big picture imo

IvoryTower

Who would you suggest could take over and do a better job?

White Horse

mada999 wrote: »

Just a question though, which of FG's policies has caused the 'recovery' ?

The followed FF's plan after the bailout, and then the Trioka came in and they had to implement austerity. I'm just trying to get a handle on how they have caused this recovery, from my view it's the euro's currency position and the cheap oil that have mostly caused it - heck exports are up 20%.

SME's and multinationals have created jobs (remember the govt doesn't create jobs).

So if the country is on the right track, why go an abolish the USC ? I think it's madness - at the moment we have a dire health service, dire roads which all need fixing. Where are they going to get the money to do this ? They say through jobs ? But there's no guarantee that these jobs will be created by multinationals.

Someone said they are happy that there will be tax cuts? But do you not think that they have to get the money through other means ? Car Tax , Water Tax, Property Tax - I believe these will all go up and the big one - College fee's - They are already lining up a student loans system, they are hardly going to give a student loan for €3,500 are they? Haven't the fee's already gone up under this govt?

People are not really seeing the big picture imo

You ask some really good questions.

First of all, what have the government done to allow the recovery to take off.

They resisted populist pressure to renege on debt commitments and reverse and/or reduce austerity measures. These were deeply unpopular but eventually reslted in the Irish economy becoming competitive. In addition, they created the confidence that enticed foreign multinationals to invest in Ireland.

Would Fianna Fail have done the same?

When the last FF government was living on borrowed time, they embarked on similar policies. The question is whether they would have seen them through over a period of five years. I believe they would not. FF is essentially a populist party that is more suited to spending money and "giving one to everyone in the audience".

Why abolish the USC?

The USC was a penal tax that was brought in to plug the gap in public finances caused by the economic crash. As that gap reduces, so should the USC. That was the deal with taxpayer.

Tax Cuts Vs increased public spending?

All the main parties are committed to both. The only difference are the proportions.

If the government signals a major investments in health, the first thing that will happen is the various unions going on strike and demanding 10% to 30% pay rises. I expect the 95% of every euro put into health will go in pay rises. That is what happened when Bertie started "investing" in the health service.
Investment in public services needs to be gradual and targeted to avoid the unions making a money grab. It should not be that way, but history tells us that is what would happen.

mada999

very good article from Fintan O'Toole today..

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-enda-kenny-s-claim-of-economic-superpowers-doesn-t-wash-1.2535846

All I know is in 2011 I voted for FG because I believed what they said:

1. Seek reduction in our bail out - (Failed) - Enda said if he got a mandate he would go and seek a reduction of our bail out debt. He didnt even ask in the end. He didnt even ask!

2. Fix the health service - (Failed) - The health service is in tatters. I'm lucky myself and also my family has full health insurance but that doesnt really mean anything these days. My mother has been in hospital nearly every year in the last 4 years and guess what? She's been on a trolley each time. They prioritised the setting up of IW instead of the health service.

3. Get rid of quangos - (Failed) The stopped funding for water services when they got into power in 2011. Then they built the biggest quango since the HSE in Irish water.

4. Political reform and Cronyism - (Failed) - Both current parties still at the cronyism. Sure you just also have to look at the site serv deal also.

mada999

White Horse wrote: »

You ask some really good questions.

First of all, what have the government done to allow the recovery to take off.

They resisted populist pressure to renege on debt commitments and reverse and/or reduce austerity measures. These were deeply unpopular but eventually reslted in the Irish economy becoming competitive. In addition, they created the confidence that enticed foreign multinationals to invest in Ireland.

Would Fianna Fail have done the same?

When the last FF government was living on borrowed time, they embarked on similar policies. The question is whether they would have seen them through over a period of five years. I believe they would not. FF is essentially a populist party that is more suited to spending money and "giving one to everyone in the audience".

Why abolish the USC?

The USC was a penal tax that was brought in to plug the gap in public finances caused by the economic crash. As that gap reduces, so should the USC. That was the deal with taxpayer.

Tax Cuts Vs increased public spending?

All the main parties are committed to both. The only difference are the proportions.

If the government signals a major investments in health, the first thing that will happen is the various unions going on strike and demanding 10% to 30% pay rises. I expect the 95% of every euro put into health will go in pay rises. That is what happened when Bertie started "investing" in the health service.
Investment in public services needs to be gradual and targeted to avoid the unions making a money grab. It should not be that way, but history tells us that is what would happen.

They had no choice when it came to repaying their debts, the Troika came in and called the shots. I dont think they can take any credit for this. The only choice they had was to ask for a reduction in our debt but they didnt.

"People know the big things that have changed for Ireland – the relative strength of the British and US economies, the fall in oil prices, favourable interest and exchange rates, Mario Draghi’s shoring up of the euro at all costs – are entirely outside the control of any Irish government. "

I really have to laugh at the short memories of some people regarding "populism". If i remember correctly FG/Lab offered the sun, moon and the stars the last time and to be honest I fell for it.

Reduction in the USC will be great for me but as a middle income earner I know this is not sustainable (they'll need to get the money from me somehow and they wont be taxing the richer of society). The govt will not be able to write off €4bn worth of public finances and actually fix our public services.

However they will have to raise money in other means and I predict they will raise Motor Tax, Property Tax, Waste Taxes and I'd say they will throw in something for the Health as well.

White Horse

Just some facts regarding the following:

1. Seek reduction in our bail out - They saved €10 billion through a successful restructuring. However, they were unable to gain a write down in the principal amount. However, they never said they would get a reduction.

2. Fix the health service - Did they promise to "fix" the health service? They promised to improve it and to move towards universal health insurance by 2020. This is the area where they have made least progress. However, I do wonder whether anyone can improve the health service given the number of vested interests with their snouts in the trough.


3. Get rid of quangos - Up to mid 2015, 181 quangoes were culled.

4. Political reform and Cronyism - the people rejected a referendum to get rid of the Seanad and a referendum to grant full investigative powers to Oireachtas committees investigating matters of public interest. The government can't be blamed if the people reject reform.

The Siteserv deal was entered into by NAMA, not the government.

tayto lover

White Horse wrote: »

Just some facts regarding the following:

1. Seek reduction in our bail out - They saved €10 billion through a successful restructuring. However, they were unable to gain a write down in the principal amount. However, they never said they would get a reduction.
Did they even seek a write-down? Don't think so.
2. Fix the health service - Did they promise to "fix" the health service? They promised to improve it and to move towards universal health insurance by 2020. This is the area where they have made least progress. However, I do wonder whether anyone can improve the health service given the number of vested interests with their snouts in the trough.
It has to be fixed. Throwing more money at something that's not working is criminal. What id Leo doing?


3. Get rid of quangos - Up to mid 2015, 181 quangoes were culled.
They started the biggest quango of all i.e. Irish Water and filled it with failed county managers. I have no problem paying for good clean water, always did through my taxes, but won't pay willingly for IW.

4. Political reform and Cronyism - the people rejected a referendum to get rid of the Seanad and a referendum to grant full investigative powers to Oireachtas committees investigating matters of public interest. The government can't be blamed if the people reject reform.
Dennis O'Brien. FG did not distance themselves from this predator. In fact they seem closer than ever to him. He even has the contract for petrol for Govt vehicles.

The Siteserv deal was entered into by NAMA, not the government.

The Govt set up NAMA. It answers to them. Should be easy telling them who to avoid dealing with.

White Horse

tayto lover wrote: »

The Govt set up NAMA. It answers to them. Should be easy telling them who to avoid dealing with.

The idea of setting up NAMA (which was a FF idea) was to ensure that there was no political interference in commercial decisions.

Given the accusations of corruption that hung over politics at the time, this was a good idea.

Independence is like virginity, you are either independent or you are not.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

tayto lover wrote: »

The Govt set up NAMA. It answers to them. Should be easy telling them who to avoid dealing with.

NAMA do not act on Governmental instruction. If they did yield to political interference you'd well have something to complain about. It is independent, with strong oversight to ensure this is so.

tayto lover

White Horse wrote: »

The idea of setting up NAMA (which was a FF idea) was to ensure that there was no political interference in commercial decisions.

Given the accusations of corruption that hung over politics at the time, this was a good idea.

Independence is like virginity, you are either independent or you are not.

Smells fishy.
Even if the NAMA are independent then they made some very bad decisions in DOB's favour i.e. 110 million write-down. Smells very fishy.

White Horse

tayto lover wrote: »

Smells fishy.
Even if the NAMA are independent then they made some very bad decisions in DOB's favour i.e. 110 million write-down. Smells very fishy.

Which is why a commission of inquiry has been set up to investigate all transactions by IBRC which resulted in a loss to IBRC of at least €10,000,000.

tayto lover

Vincent Browne's " Peoples Debate " is on TV 3 at the moment from the Carrickdale Hotel.

Adams didn't turn up.
Fitzpatrick, O'Dowd and Nash there - all Govt reps. No opposition at all, just a few councillors.

Be interesting how Fitzer does on tv as he's not hectic on the radio.

Oh I see the other Shinner, Imelda Munster there.

Canadel

Ged Nash is excellent. Politicians like him are why Labour are still a better bet in government than not.

tayto lover

Canadel wrote: »

Ged Nash is excellent. Politicians like him are why Labour are still a better bet in government than not.

He's doing well in fairness. Pity Joan lets them down when she's on though.

doncarlos

Canadel wrote: »

Ged Nash is excellent. Politicians like him are why Labour are still a better bet in government than not.

tayto lover wrote: »

He's doing well in fairness. Pity Joan lets them down when she's on though.

I quite like Nash and he's probably our best TD but I don't think I could vote labour after their performance in the exiting government.

I really am undecided who to vote for. Was thinking independent but none of our independent candidates inspire me either. Might be a case of me picking who is least bad rather than who's the best. That is a very sorry state of affairs

sunshine and showers

Didn't see VinB. Why didn't Gerry and others show up? Bit rude, no?

I'm thinking Ged Nash for my vote. He seems like a good guy. Smartvote.ie tells me Mark Dearey is my guy, though!

Definitely a case of least worst option this time around. Sorry state of affairs indeed.

mada999

Canadel wrote: »

Ged Nash is excellent. Politicians like him are why Labour are still a better bet in government than not.

yup 'Tax is not a burden' Ged Nash.... I dont think so

White Horse

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Didn't see VinB. Why didn't Gerry and others show up? Bit rude, no?

I doubt Adams sees himself as a "Louth" TD. Louth is just a base for him being involved in politics south of the border.

I thought it was a shambolic programme. The audience of party hacks didn't help. Shouting down candidates is the behaviour of a mob.

The programme really exposed the quality of the independents. I thought they were shocking.

That was also the fist time I've heard Coffey from FF. It didn't make me want to hear her again.

I thought the two best performers were Nash and Fergus O'Dowd.

sunshine and showers

White Horse wrote: »

I doubt Adams sees himself as a "Louth" TD. Louth is just a base for him being involved in politics south of the border.

I thought it was a shambolic programme. The audience of party hacks didn't help. Shouting down candidates is the behaviour of a mob.

The programme really exposed the quality of the independents. I thought they were shocking.

That was also the fist time I've heard Coffey from FF. It didn't make me want to hear her again.

I thought the two best performers were Nash and Fergus O'Dowd.

Was there any insight on what the independents are about? The biggest one I'm seeing is Maeve Yore, but her website is shockingly bad. I asked her a question about her stance on repealing the 8th and I haven't had a response.

I'm most interested in her because I've heard she's the independent most likely to win a seat.

White Horse

sunshine and showers wrote: »

Was there any insight on what the independents are about? The biggest one I'm seeing is Maeve Yore, but her website is shockingly bad. I asked her a question about her stance on repealing the 8th and I haven't had a response.

I'm most interested in her because I've heard she's the independent most likely to win a seat.

Maeve Yore was very passionate about services for disabled children. She has a child for whom she has being trying to secure services for a number of years.

The impression I got is that she is a single issue candidate. The issue in question is an important issue, but I think the General Election is for electing a government that will deal with a huge range of issues.

PGE1970

White Horse wrote: »

I doubt Adams sees himself as a "Louth" TD. Louth is just a base for him being involved in politics south of the border.

I thought it was a shambolic programme. The audience of party hacks didn't help. Shouting down candidates is the behaviour of a mob.

The programme really exposed the quality of the independents. I thought they were shocking.

That was also the fist time I've heard Coffey from FF. It didn't make me want to hear her again.

I thought the two best performers were Nash and Fergus O'Dowd.

I agree entirely.

I'm not a member of any party but my two cents below.

The audience seemed to be loaded with Sinn Fein and Right to Water/DDI supporters. It was ironic that Gerry Adams couldn't attend but his campaign manager tried to join the hustings in his place!

I thought the standard was poor throughout with the exception of Ged Nash, Fergus O'Dowd and, to an extent, Kevin Callan and, surprisingly, Peter Fitzpatrick who, although not eloquent, came across as sincere.

Imelda Munster was poor and simply regurgitated the standard SF script. Her contributions were inevitably followed by a partisan round of applause from the aforementioned SF attendees even when she didn't seem to say anything.

The FF candidates were really poor. Emma Coffey also read from a script and it was clear that she had little/no knowledge of matters pre 2011 which is understandable as she is not really a politician with a real political background. Nevertheless, she is, of course, entitled to run on her own and her party's issues and good luck to her.

I was also disappointed with Michael O'Dowd and I had hoped for better from him.

The Independents were largely shockingly poor. Their focus only single issue agendas really struck me and whilst their agendas may have merit in their own rights, you need a broader and more strategic perspective to govern a country.

The chap who is guided by God made me laugh as he, himself, seemed to smile as he set out his stall. Good on him!

Overall, Nash was a clear winner and easily the most impressive imo. He is very capable and will represent the county well. I think it would be a shocker if he is not re-elected.