Which partys?

mick65cm

Just wondering which parties we should be thinking of voting

or more importantly does anyone have a list of questions we should be asking the canvassers coming to our homes

Sparks

If we could all not vote for Finian McGrath and Michael Healy-Rae, that'd be nice.
(Yes, MHR. Anyone who acts the way he does is not on our side).
Beyond that, we don't have any real party-level needs at the moment from the shooting point of view.
And to be blunt about it, on a general election front, there are probably bigger issues even for shooters. The FCP is up and running, the various other thing committed to by the Minister are all publicly committed to (and the new Minister does not overrule the old Minister on the first week in the job, it's not the Done Thing).
There are definitely people I *wouldn't* vote for on the basis of the shooting stuff, but at party level, not so much.

mick65cm

Sparks wrote: »

If we could all not vote for Finian McGrath and Michael Healy-Rae, that'd be nice.
(Yes, MHR. Anyone who acts the way he does is not on our side).
Beyond that, we don't have any real party-level needs at the moment from the shooting point of view.
And to be blunt about it, on a general election front, there are probably bigger issues even for shooters. The FCP is up and running, the various other thing committed to by the Minister are all publicly committed to (and the new Minister does not overrule the old Minister on the first week in the job, it's not the Done Thing).
There are definitely people I *wouldn't* vote for on the basis of the shooting stuff, but at party level, not so much.

I know about McGrath and his english road signs.

I think sinn fein have a anti-bllood sport policy. But I'll be asking there canvassers anyway.

mick65cm

googled and this

sinn fein seem to be against hunting

looking at that page my local sinn feiner said shes against consuming animals and against any bloodsports.


not allowed to post the address because new user but if you google sin fein anti hunting you will see it

extremetaz

Won't be voting for any of the main parties in any case myself - sticking to independents; For better or worse we need a decent proportion of the seats to be with people who don't have a whip to keep them under control. Things as they are aren't ever going to work.

Grizzly 45

mick65cm wrote: »

googled and this

sinn fein seem to be against hunting

looking at that page my local sinn feiner said shes against consuming animals and against any bloodsports.


not allowed to post the address because new user but if you google sin fein anti hunting you will see it

Maybe they are leaving it up to each canditate?any of the SF rs I've approached have been very supportive of shooting sports[Ok que the wisecracks!:p ] on the national and EU level.
Our anti friends over on banbloodsports.com have a nice list of all the sitting politicansin the last Dail and their statements on animal welfare,etc. Worth a look.

clivej

Spread this image on your Facebook pages and other social media services
right click and save image

Grizzly 45

Should add to that pic.
Used fake evidence to try and villify Irish gunowners in a Govt inquiry!
Got it??

meathstevie

mick65cm wrote: »

googled and this

sinn fein seem to be against hunting

looking at that page my local sinn feiner said shes against consuming animals and against any bloodsports.


not allowed to post the address because new user but if you google sin fein anti hunting you will see it

Don't think that the party stance is anti "bloodsports" since Martin McGuinness himself is openly involved in fly fishing.

Cass

Everything i've read says they are most definitely anti fieldsports (won't dignify the use of the other B word).

goz83

Finian can swing for my vote. Hoping he retires this year. Seems anything he says, he embarrasses himself.

I wouldn't bring up anything about firearms, because they will have forgotten about it by the time they reach the next door bell.

barnaman

Cass wrote: »

Everything i've read says they are most definitely anti fieldsports (won't dignify the use of the other B word).

Add your reply here.
Yeah they voted to ban them at 09 Ard Fheis and its official party policy. They are gone Communist anyway got to love their 70% tax rate for over 100k; shooting is elitist to them.

Half-cocked

So, I missed Finian calling to my door, I was out. Shame, I was all ready to tackle him on his anti-firearms stance. He did shove a large 4 page leaflet through the letterbox - no mention of firearms and just a very brief mention that he sat on the Justice Committee. Maybe he has realized that there are a large number of licensed firearms owners in the Dublin Bay North constituency and that he might risk losing votes if he keeps banging that drum?

Grizzly 45

Never forget,Never forgive an anti gun politican or party.

mayhem#

Let's take it the other way around; For a politician to get the support of the "shooting lobby" what changes & measures would they have to support and or implement?
Asking for a "friend" ;-)

mick65cm

not that I speak for everyone. but for me anyway Id like a party to not blur lines between me and criminals with guns.... support us for reloading and push to have a level playing field for everyone.... why is people in one district able to licence a certain firearm with no questions asked but my ssuper doesnt like that model of gun so i have a court case to get it.

other than that anything else Id ask for would be too unrealistic and never happen, but Id be very happy with the above.

Half-cocked

Had 2 canvassers from one of the bigger parties on the doorstep the other day. So I asked them what was their party's stance on civilian firearm ownership. You want to have heard them trying to suss out where I was coming from before committing to an answer:D When they couldn't get anything out of me they gave me some guff about not being familiar with the issue and suggesting I contact their justice spokesperson. Justice I asked, surely their Sports spokesperson was more appropriate? Oh yes, him too, as they hurriedly made their excuses and headed for the next house on the street.

clivej

The three TDs who have formed Ireland's newest political party, the Social Democrats, are all in favour of a ban on bloodsports. In the past two years, Stephen Donnelly, Roisin Shortall and Catherine Murphy have voted in favour of legislation amendments which sought to ban foxhunting and hare coursing.

http://www.banbloodsports.com/ln150715.htm

Grizzly 45

Social Democrats...An oxymoron if there ever was one!:rolleyes:

Sparks

Problem is, "ban bloodsports" is such an easy thing for Joe Public to think is a good thing. Aw, the cuddly widdle animals.
Things like actual ecological balances, nonintuitive realities, problems that don't have a good solution just a choice between bad ones -- these things are too complex for election campaigns. ICABS capitalise on that. There's very little chance stuff can backfire on them (until someone looks at ALF or other such fun things and there's very little factchecking in an election cycle).

It's what happens after the election that's the important bit.

bpb101

as far as im aware Sf are for banning all guns( effectually) this is because lets face it they cant be seen to support less restrictive "gun" ownership for obvious reasons. The media would have a field day

As much as i hate FF and FG, they would be less restrictive on farmers owning firearms. That said i know most here arent farmers but...

i would say greens are more worried about you leaving brass all over the place.

Generally left wings politicians are worst for us.

i will be voting for strong right wing independents .

as for Finian McGrath. At the risk of sounding like im bullying him - im disappointed im not in his area , because i would be delighted to tell him that in no uncertain terms , that he would never get my vote and that i will be filling my ballot paper 1-19 and leaving his name blank (20 candidates ). I will be going to the count centers but not his one. I would have been delighted to see him lose his seat ( i would hope)
saying that they have fúcked his area when they moved the boundaries, so i wouldnt be betting on how safe he is.
a friend of mine who lives in his area is looking forward to him canvasing his house to tell him he doesn't represent him.

As for the healy raes. They may be bad at representing firearms owners but they may be in a position of power in the next government to prop up a fg ff or fg lab government , we could count on them to reject further restrictions imo

Cass

Seems early exit polls indicate a rise for FF, SF and some other smaller parties with heavy losses for FG & Lab.

Make me wonder who the hell votes for SF. Forget the shooting stuff as it's only relevant to 100,000+ of us. All the other stuff they have said during the campaign and people still think they are the way forward!

wexfordman2

Cass wrote: »

Seems early exit polls indicate a rise for FF, SF and some other smaller parties with heavy losses for FG & Lab.

Make me wonder who the hell votes for SF. Forget the shooting stuff as it's only relevant to 100,000+ of us. All the other stuff they have said during the campaign and people still think they are the way forward!

I don't think it's that people think sf are the way forward, it's that they think ffglab are not the way forward.

Cass

Completely agree.

Standing in the booth yesterday i was looking at the options and not one made me go "they are one(s) that are best for us".

All i know is between the outgoing governments austerity measures, water charges (even after the 1997 act), etc. FF getting us here in the first place, and the record of the other parties when given the smallest iota of power (remember the Greens) i was begging for something else, but knew it was not going to be there.

Sparks

One of the more depressing experiences, that. A list of candidates as long as my arm (literally) and going down through them thinking "nope, nope, nope, not if I was on fire, nope, nope, are you fscking kidding me?, nope, nope, doesn't even live here, nope, nope..."

goz83

For the first time ever, i just drove by the polling station. Not a single candidate could I put my name to. Very disappointed.

Cass

See Healy-Rae got his seat back (no surprise).

Only glimmer of good news is McGrath may miss out, but its unlikely. He is a a four way race for the remaining three seats in Dublin north.

davycc

bpb101 wrote: »

as far as im aware Sf are for banning all guns( effectually) this is because lets face it they cant be seen to support less restrictive "gun" ownership for obvious reasons. The media would have a field day

As much as i hate FF and FG, they would be less restrictive on farmers owning firearms. That said i know most here arent farmers but...

i would say greens are more worried about you leaving brass all over the place.

Generally left wings politicians are worst for us.

i will be voting for strong right wing independents .

where exactly did you hear or read that part about SF?
they are hugely supportive of farmers owning firearms in my own experience

sfakiaman

Out of twenty candidates only one came to my village, a saddening experience.

bpb101

davycc wrote: »

where exactly did you hear or read that part about SF?
they are hugely supportive of farmers owning firearms in my own experience

their website ( i heard it(similar things) somewhere else, but here is a good as link as any)

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16654
he thinks we are for it too

Sinn Féin Justice Spokesperson Aengus Ó Snodaigh TD has said the Criminal Justice Bill 2009 will not address gangland crime but represents a welcome development in terms of prudent gun control. Deputy Ó Snodaigh said the Bill will help prevent the development of a gun culture in Ireland while ensuring that Ireland continues to be proudly represented by talented target shooters at Olympic type events into the future.
Speaking at Committee stage of the Bill Deputy Ó Snodaigh said, “The new firearms provisions contained in this Bill will not address gangland crime but they do represent a welcome development in terms of prudent gun control.
“The Bill bans high calibre handguns while allowing lower calibre handguns for use in sports recognised by the Olympic Committee to continue to be licensed. I believe both the sporting tradition and the public at large should welcome this Bill.
“I am proposing a number of amendments including that any future further prohibitions of firearms types by the Minister be brought before the Oireachtas Justice Committee so that the implications, if any, for sporting activities can be properly considered and debated in advance.
“By banning high calibre handguns and the so-called sports involving combat based simulations and by introducing a more comprehensive and effective licensing regime for all other firearms this Bill will help prevent the development of a gun culture and perhaps reduce the shameful instances of Irish people acting as mercenaries and interfering with democratic processes abroad while ensuring that Ireland continues to be proudly represented by talented target shooters at Olympic type events into the future.
“In addition I called on the Minister today to investigate the potential for forensic testing and recording of licensed firearms in the future and the possibility of pursuing a measure at EU level for the mandatory GPS chipping of firearms during the manufacturing stage.” ENDS

btalt

Martin Hayden FG in Kildare has openly supported gun sports and even visited harbour house range on his campaign travels

Grizzly 45

Two of the" three Amigos" of Limerick got in again[ODea,Noonan, O Donnell] O Dea and O Donnell at least did give us a hearing and did put in some effort on our behalf last year. If Quinlivan got in,I know that his dad and other family members are hunters and gun owners..SF seems to have complete mixed messages on field sports...One lot wants to ban coursing,others down south in the stronghold of WLimerick Kerry wont hear of it.Ol O Snoidgh s statement is off the wall completely and hopefully he was educated a tad by Sparks at the Dail comittee. Anyway which way,we live in intresting times again folks,and proably another election by I'd say July.So I wouldnt expect any moves or shakes on legislation until they decide who gets what snout in what trough.

bpb101

McGrath dosent look safe, he's 3rd atm but I wouldn't be happy if I were him

It wasn't me!

btalt wrote: »

Martin Hayden FG in Kildare has openly supported gun sports and even visited harbour house range on his campaign travels

He also had this as part of his re-election campaign, so...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6FkRjjGsBM

mayhem#

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

bpb101

mayhem# wrote: »

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

may have another election in a few weeks, certainly one by the years end

yubabill1

bpb101 wrote: »

McGrath dosent look safe, he's 3rd atm but I wouldn't be happy if I were him

I should be working but could not resist looking up fibres progress.

He is in a 4 way fight for the last seat and by no means out, but also by no means the strongest.

Maybe constituents realised that legal licensed firearms holders are not the ones selling drugs in his constituency?

He deliberately, wilfully, maliciously conflated us with criminals on Prime Time.

IRLConor

sfakiaman wrote: »

Out of twenty candidates only one came to my village, a saddening experience.

I've had a grand total of zero callers to my door across two general elections, a presidential election, a local & European election and five referendum campaigns.

Anyway, of the Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality here's how they've done so far:

TD/Senator|Party|Constituency|Result
Niall Collins|Fianna Fáil|Limerick County|Elected
Alan Farrell|Fine Gael|Dublin Fingal|Elected
Anne Ferris|Labour|Wicklow|Lost her seat
Seán Kenny|Labour|Dublin Bay North|Retired
Pádraig Mac Lochlainn|Sinn Féin|Donegal|Lost his seat
Gabrielle McFadden|Fine Gael|Longford-Westmeath|Lost her seat
Finian McGrath|Independent|Dublin Bay North|Still fighting for a seat, count ongoing
Fergus O'Dowd|Fine Gael|Louth|Elected
David Stanton|Fine Gael|Cork East|Elected
Ivana Bacik|Labour|University of Dublin|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Martin Conway|Fine Gael|Administrative Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Tony Mulcahy|Fine Gael|Labour Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Rónán Mullen|Independent|National University of Ireland|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Denis O'Donovan|Fianna Fáil|Agricultural Panel|Seanad elections haven't happened yet
Katherine Zappone|Independent|Taoiseach's Nominee/Dublin South-West|Was a senator, now elected as a TD.


Committees change regularly, but I think "our" one is going to be quite different next time. Of course, depending on how the attempts to form a government go we could have another election before the committee gets re-formed.

Sparks

mayhem# wrote: »

@Sparks; Should have ran yourself!

Yeah, I have a real job, but thanks

bpb101

@irl, zappone seat in a lot of question. May be taken from taken from under her before she has say down

IRLConor

bpb101 wrote: »

@irl, zappone seat in a lot of question. May be taken from taken from under her before she has say down

Looks like she has it.

It also looks like Finian McGrath will just about hang on to his seat too.

randy hickey

IRLConor wrote: »

Looks like she has it.

It also looks like Finian McGrath will just about hang on to his seat too.

Unfortunately it's now official - he got in.

Cass

M'eh.

With the (albeit slim) chance of a second election because of the larger parties refusal to enter into a coalition with one another and no one wanting a rainbow coalition he may have to go through it all again.

Even if we don't have a second election it's going to be a different Government to the last which means new members on the various review committees because of those that lost their seats. The last bit of good news is Kenny (Sean not Enda) and Mac Lochlainn retired or lost their seat. These were two that stood out to me as being purposely obstinate. Their use of inflammatory words, and sensationalist (and baseless) "what if" scenarios showed where they stood.

bpb101

randy hickey wrote: »

Unfortunately it's now official - he got in.

Actually pissed both him and zeapone got in. Of the people who get seats.

In my area i went 1-20 and left zappone blank

yubabill1

Cass wrote: »

M'eh.

With the (albeit slim) chance of a second election because of the larger parties refusal to enter into a coalition with one another and no one wanting a rainbow coalition he may have to go through it all again.

Even if we don't have a second election it's going to be a different Government to the last which means new members on the various review committees because of those that lost their seats. The last bit of good news is Kenny (Sean not Enda) and Mac Lochlainn retired or lost their seat. These were two that stood out to me as being purposely obstinate. Their use of inflammatory words, and sensationalist (and baseless) "what if" scenarios showed where they stood.

Fibber got in last of 5 and only by the slimmest margin after 12 counts, a full recount and another couple of counts after that.

I think a weak and precarious government helps our position, as they could fall for the smallest thing and will have to please everyone at every juncture.

The elephant in the room is Europe.......the migrant mess is destabilising the institution more than you might think. And Dragi has to pull an economic rabbit out of his hat in the next few weeks, as eu inflation has gone negative once again, while he has used all his interest rate ammo (they are negative right now - maxed out imho) and printing more QE money doesn't seem to have helped inflation.

Sparks

yubabill1 wrote: »

I think a weak and precarious government helps our position, as they could fall for the smallest thing and will have to please everyone at every juncture.

You think we'd have an easier time lobbying in that environment than a "won't someone think of the children" campaign against gun crime, or the ICABS mob?
It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

bpb101

Sparks wrote: »

It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

Reading this, it's sounds quite stupid, but the sad thing is that's your right.

It's so bloody stupid to think that is our sport is dependent on politics.
It's mad to think that the shooting forum has more politics in it that the politics forum

It says a lot when you have to think when your voting , who isent going to ban my sport. .

Cass

bpb101 wrote: »

It's mad to think that the shooting forum has more politics in it that the politics forum

Its maddening. Too much of it at times.

I understand the need for it, but it can be a time soak and for 98% of people irrelevant. You don't need to be involved, but i keep saying you (the general you, not you specifically) should at least want to know what is going on.

It says a lot when you have to think when your voting , who isent going to ban my sport. .

Or in the recent election which is the least worst. (some good English there )

yubabill1

Sparks wrote: »

You think we'd have an easier time lobbying in that environment than a "won't someone think of the children" campaign against gun crime, or the ICABS mob?
It's not like we ever have a strong position, but anytime that there's political instability here or in the UK, it has never really benefited our sport. It tends to make it far easier to ramrod bans through instead, with backbenchers jumping at the chance for a few inches in the local paper.

Agree we never had a strong position in the past, but disagree about politician's attitudes in next govt.

If a minority government is formed, they can't afford to put 100-200k shooter's noses out of joint any more than they can put gay's noses out ( or any other minority with a lobby).

We proved we are no longer going to sit down and take diktats without question and that we can unite when the chips are down, despite recent squabbles.

My 2c fwiw.

Sparks

I think perhaps you're overestimating our position - remember, we managed to get Michael McDowell to do a U-turn before on the licence fees, and despite being able to field that much resistance to a policy, were unable to stop the 2009 Act (even if we were able to deflect the worst of it) -- and the reason is that when they're looking at imminent elections, politicians move too fast for us to lobby against stupid stuff. But some mobs, like ICABS or eejits like McGrath lobbying against us, they don't need to wait, they just go straight to the press with whatever half-baked nonsense they can dream up and it rarely if ever comes back on them because they're not in a small, ill-understood minority. "Look at the cute widdle fox" or "Guns are bad, don't you get it?" don't need facts or figures or logic, they're just designed for soundbites and headlines, and the fact that they don't make sense doesn't count because nobody looks at yesterday's headlines.

bpb101

Cass wrote: »

Its maddening. Too much of it at times.

I understand the need for it, but it can be a time soak and for 98% of people irrelevant. You don't need to be involved, but i keep saying you (the general you, not you specifically) should at least want to know what is going on.


Or in the recent election which is the least worst. (some good English there )

Sparks wrote: »

I think perhaps you're overestimating our position - remember, we managed to get Michael McDowell to do a U-turn before on the licence fees, and despite being able to field that much resistance to a policy, were unable to stop the 2009 Act (even if we were able to deflect the worst of it) -- and the reason is that when they're looking at imminent elections, politicians move too fast for us to lobby against stupid stuff. But some mobs, like ICABS or eejits like McGrath lobbying against us, they don't need to wait, they just go straight to the press with whatever half-baked nonsense they can dream up and it rarely if ever comes back on them because they're not in a small, ill-understood minority. "Look at the cute widdle fox" or "Guns are bad, don't you get it?" don't need facts or figures or logic, they're just designed for soundbites and headlines, and the fact that they don't make sense doesn't count because nobody looks at yesterday's headlines.

yeah, i quite like politics(dont ask me why ) but it so crazy From somebody who isent involved or has no notion of the sports, it sound like these mad farmers found an old loophole in the law that allow them to buy a "gun" to protect their home and then some of them go out and rob post offices. And somebody like finian is standing up to the gun lobby and putting his life on the line for the children. (and the mad guys are getting state funding too buy the guns)