Lenght of barrel

LIFFY FISHING

Lads what length is your .17 HMR barrel.
Have you modified the length or changed the barrel for an after market version.
From what I read the optimum length for a HMR is from 18 -18 1/2"...

darg

Browning T-Bolt in 17hmr can come with a 16" barrel from factory

German pointer

darg wrote:

Browning T-Bolt in 17hmr can come with a 16" barrel from factory

So does the CZ 455 and its extremely accurate

skipking

anschutz do a 14ins barrel lovely rifle.

clivej

You really need to find out when all the powder is burnt off in the 17 hmr barrel. Then you'll have the optimum barrel length.

extremetaz

skipking wrote: »

anschutz do a 14ins barrel lovely rifle.

1517 - One of the lads in the Outdoor sports center in Mullingar has one of those and swears he'll be buried with it - crackin' rifle I'm told.

I'm actually out to buy the 22LR version of it (the 1417) at the moment but it seems Anschutz are between vendors for Ireland at the moment so that's thrown a spanner in the proceedings.

LIFFY FISHING

clivej wrote: »

You really need to find out when all the powder is burnt off in the 17 hmr barrel. Then you'll have the optimum barrel length.

From what I read its between 18 -18 1/2 " in a CZ 452
Yet I cant understand why CZ make a 16" version !

German pointer

LIFFY FISHING wrote:

From what I read its between 18 -18 1/2 " in a CZ 452 Yet I cant understand why CZ make a 16" version !

16" is very handy especially in england and other countries where you can shoot out the window of a jeep or car

Sparks

Obligatory note : you can't legally cut a rifle barrel down below 19.68 inches (50cm) and it's still a legal gray area as to whether or not you can legally possess one that came from the factory with a barrel that short.

Unless you like the idea of being the test case before it can be sorted out via the FCP, it might not be worth the headache.

rsole1

Sparks wrote: »

Obligatory note : you can't legally cut a rifle barrel down below 19.68 inches (50cm) and it's still a legal gray area as to whether or not you can legally possess one that came from the factory with a barrel that short.

Unless you like the idea of being the test case before it can be sorted out via the FCP, it might not be worth the headache.

So what do I do with the 16" one that I just purchased from a RFD ? Will I not be able to sell it again ?

clivej

Sparks wrote: »

Obligatory note : you can't legally cut a rifle barrel down below 19.68 inches (50cm) and it's still a legal gray area as to whether or not you can legally possess one that came from the factory with a barrel that short.

Unless you like the idea of being the test case before it can be sorted out via the FCP, it might not be worth the headache.

rsole1 wrote: »

So what do I do with the 16" one that I just purchased from a RFD ? Will I not be able to sell it again ?

rsole1.......
You didn't have that barrel CUT down did you????
No.
You have replace the original barrel (a defected barrel) with a new one.

I'm not saying that's the correct way of doing things.... but!!!

Cass

What Sparks is referring to is how the law is worded and thee fact that it leaves a grey area or loophole that can only be resolved by a test case. The way it stands is:

• You cannot cut a barrel below 20". You can only do so if its to resolve a defect in the barrel, but no without having it "re-built" to 20" or above. The law gives no method to do this as it's not possible (afaik). This piece of law is black and white.
• Here is the grey bit. If you buy a factory rifle with a barrel length of less than 20" (manufactured that way, not cut by someone) then you cannot possess it without lawful authority. Now as you firearms license is your lawful authority, and the FCA1 does not ask for barrel length, then you are technically covered.

The thing is the law is not clear on this, and until a test case is before the courts we will never have a definite answer on it.


After saying all that i had a CZ and a Savage in hmr. Both were 20" barrels and both were tack drivers. My mate had an Anschutz with a 14" barrel and it was also a tack driver. There was no difference between the rifles so it seems that down to 14" there is no ill effect from having the shorter barrel.

rsole1

clivej wrote: »

rsole1.......
You didn't have that barrel CUT down did you????
No.
You have replace the original barrel (a defected barrel) with a new one.

I'm not saying that's the correct way of doing things.... but!!!

I didn't have the barrel cut down it left the factory that way and I have the original box it came in and it states it has 16" barrel, so I'd best keep the box. I could always get a 20"barrel if the worse case scenario arose. Just out of interest as the licence is for a .220" caliber, at present it has a 22lr barrel, but could I get a 22wmr barrel or does each barrel require a separate licence?

Sparks

Each barrel in a different calibre needs a seperate licence rsole (that's what it boils down to anyway).
As to your 16" barrel - the thing is that we think the licence is sufficient legal authority but because there's a specific bit in the act banning possession of them without specific authority and the licence doesn't necessarily list the barrel length, there's a question over whether or not it actually is that specific authority. And if it's not, well, it wouldn't be the first time a licence was given out ultra vires and the licencee in those cases was basically holding the legal equivalent of monopoly money. I don't know of anyone who's come a cropper from that so far but that's been more good fortune than any specific mechanism.

What's needed is for the FCP to sort this out. Or a test case in the courts could do it, but that's a much worse option for two reasons - one, we could lose (which is even worse for the poor sod taking the case who's now out a five to six figure sum and facing a custodial sentence if charged with possession of an unlicenced firearm); and two, court cases get overturned by Minister's pen all the time in our sport, but Ministerial pens don't get overturned quite so often, so an FCP solution lasts longer.

pm.

Sparks I have the 1517 in 14" and you are more than welcome to a shot from it... Cass and his father were good enough to sight this in for me last year at the Midlands range.

I was skeptical when I first bought this but was told that everything is burned up at 12". This rifle will put holes in holes easily at 100 yards ( as done by Cass and his dad)

Sparks

Thanks for the offer pm, but whether or not it works, and whether or not it's legal, are two very unrelated questions.

BrownTrout

Out of curiosity what's the law regarding shotgun barrels?

Sparks

The same but with a different length limit (61cm).

clivej

BrownTrout wrote: »

Out of curiosity what's the law regarding shotgun barrels?

Or 24 inches in old money

meathstevie

Sparks wrote: »

Each barrel in a different calibre needs a seperate licence rsole (that's what it boils down to anyway).
As to your 16" barrel - the thing is that we think the licence is sufficient legal authority but because there's a specific bit in the act banning possession of them without specific authority and the licence doesn't necessarily list the barrel length, there's a question over whether or not it actually is that specific authority. And if it's not, well, it wouldn't be the first time a licence was given out ultra vires and the licencee in those cases was basically holding the legal equivalent of monopoly money. I don't know of anyone who's come a cropper from that so far but that's been more good fortune than any specific mechanism.

What's needed is for the FCP to sort this out. Or a test case in the courts could do it, but that's a much worse option for two reasons - one, we could lose (which is even worse for the poor sod taking the case who's now out a five to six figure sum and facing a custodial sentence if charged with possession of an unlicenced firearm); and two, court cases get overturned by Minister's pen all the time in our sport, but Ministerial pens don't get overturned quite so often, so an FCP solution lasts longer.

Sparks, I'm not trying to preempt anything or playing a guessing game but the fact that an application would have been made asking permission to possess a specific firearm identified by brand, type, caliber and serial number it should be very easy to verify legality for the licencing authority.

Sparks

And I'd agree if we didn't have precedent for licences being given out for things the licencer couldn't legally licence...

Cass

meathstevie wrote: »

.......... possess a specific firearm identified by brand, type, caliber and serial number it should be very easy to verify legality for the licencing authority.

The problem is the Gardaí do/must not have a registry of firearms. IOW they cannot identify a guns legality by the details you named above or that are on the FCA1. Take the Anschutz. All the details you are required to supply make no mention of the barrel length. So they grant an unrestricted license for a rimfire rifle when in fact the law says they should not.

As its the licensee's responsibility to apply for the proper/legal license they (An Gardaí) rely on the application to provide the details of the gun. So, as Sparks said, you get people being licensed on firearms that cannot be licensed or were granted the wrong licenses (unrestricted license for restricted firearms, etc).

LIFFY FISHING

Lads the question I was posing was looking more for a technical answer rather than a legal one, was anyone any experiance regarding the benifits of reducing their barrel ?

Cass

The reason for the legal answer is because the act of cutting a barrel below 20" is illegal. Its not trying to be a wet blanket. Buying a rifle with such a barrel is still (technically) illegal but there is a loophole/grey area with the matter.

So discussion of cutting a barrel down below this limit is discussing illegal acts.

dazed+confused

I have the Anschutz 1417 in .22lr and from my anecdotal experience it is a fantastic little rifle. As for the legal side of it it's so hard to believe that these are being imported, displayed on dealers' shelves, sold and licenced while all the while supposedly being illegal. I do accept that it wouldn't be the first time this has happened though!

My .17HMR is a CZ 452 American and has a 22" barrel, I also love this rifle, I will never part with it, and it's always in the back of my mind that while a .22lr round has burnt all of its powder in 12.5", a .17HMR round needs 18.5" of barrel to fully burn all its powder. It is a fast round with a light load and I want to be sure that I'm getting the best out of it and I bought a .243 with a 24" barrel for the same reason.

While the science backs up the above, the difference between a 14" barrel and an 18" barrel at 50-150yds is negligible and I have also spoken to the guys in Outdoor Sports who shoot a lot with their 1517s and can't fault them. It all depends how much of a rifle geek you are or how much you listen to the little voice in your head I suppose.

dazed+confused

I have the Anschutz 1417 in .22lr and from my anecdotal experience it is a fantastic little rifle. As for the legal side of it it's so hard to believe that these are being imported, displayed on dealers' shelves, sold and licenced while all the while supposedly being illegal. I do accept that it wouldn't be the first time this has happened though!

My .17HMR is a CZ 452 American and has a 22" barrel. I love this rifle even more and will never part with it. It's always in the back of my mind that while a .22lr round has burnt all of its powder in 12.5", a .17HMR round needs 18.5" of barrel to fully burn all its powder. It is a fast round with a light load and I want to be sure that I'm getting the best out of it and I bought a .243 with a 24" barrel for the same reason.

While the science backs up the above, the difference between a 14" barrel and an 18" barrel at 50-150yds is negligible and I have also spoken to the guys in Outdoor Sports who shoot a lot with their 1517s and can't fault them. It all depends how much of a rifle geek you are or how much you listen to the little voice in your head I suppose.

clivej

dazed+confused wrote: »

............. It all depends how much of a rifle geek you are or how much you listen to the little voice in your head I suppose.

He has lots of little voices in his head and I'm one of them. :D