What was the worst Irish Defeat.

PTH2009

I knw not really a bad Irish loss but france beating Scotland with a last min tmo giving try in the 2007 6n. We would of won the title if that try was disallowed.

Dave_The_Sheep

PTH2009 wrote: »

I knw not really a bad Irish loss but france beating Scotland with a last min tmo giving try in the 2007 6n. We would of won the title if that try was disallowed.

Or if we hadn't allowed Italy to score after the clock went red. Should have taken the 3 on offer when we had advantage in the Italian half at one point there.

Assuming my memory is accurate anyways.

techdiver

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Or if we hadn't allowed Italy to score after the clock went red. Should have taken the 3 on offer when we had advantage in the Italian half at one point there.

Assuming my memory is accurate anyways.

In fairness, we were scoring tries for fun and if we had not went for as many points as available and then missed out by 2 or 3 people would be saying the opposite.

molloyjh

That 60-0 to NZ for me. This was our "golden generation" at a time when Irish rugby was arguably at an all time high with the provinces having a great run in Europe, a GS in the recent past and winning being the norm for us at all levels really. And then we suffer that hiding. No team with the talent and ability we had at the time should suffer a loss like that. Yet we did. It was a pretty damning result when looked at in that perspective.

galwaylad14

I know there are no friendlies in International Rugby and all that (absolute genius bit of marketing this was in fairness to label them as "Tests") and in fairness these matches are taken a lot more seriously that their equilavents in other sports.

But to me the fact that that game against the All Blacks was just a "test" and not in a world cup or something does slightly take the disappointment out of it. At the end of the day we didn't beat them but it didn't cost us silverware or a chance at reaching a world cup semi final or something. And I was disgusted on the day but I got over it a lot quicker than the two quarter final defeats. Think I'd go with the Argentine one as being worse, sure we had bad injuries but deep down we all still expected to win that day and probably would have were it not for such a calamitous start.

People saying they were traumatised because we lost what is essentially a glorified friendly would want to get a grip

jacothelad

I've been thinking about this thread. I've come to the conclusion that it's always the last defeat. So in philosophical terms - every defeat is the worst one - for a time, until the next 'worst ever' defeat come along.
Some are heart wrenching at the time. Some are pure embarrassment - like losing to Scotland in Croke Park...or away to Italy. Which is worse? Getting beaten in a fantastic game of rugby or being turned over by a bunch of guys who wouldn't start for Ireland.

irishbucsfan

jacothelad wrote: »

I've been thinking about this thread. I've come to the conclusion that it's always the last defeat. So in philosophical terms - every defeat is the worst one - for a time, until the next 'worst ever' defeat come along.

What about moral victories?

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What about moral victories?

No such thing. What about ethical victories? Now there's a debate. Morals or ethics in rugby victory? Discuss....

awec

I think the NZ and the Argentine defeats are two totally different things, and both would be "worst" for very different reasons.

NZ because we came so close to finally beating them and actually played really well (until the last minute). The actual defeat itself wasn't bad though, we only lost by 2 points.

Argentina was bad because it was a complete let down and we failed to turn up for the first 20 minutes which ultimately cost us a WC semi final.

NZ hurt because it we played so well, Argentina hurt because we played so badly.

Those three games you mention don't even come close. 60-0 to NZ. How can anything else be worse? We played well at times in the ones you mentions (possibly bar Wales 2011). 60-0 was a complete drubbing. It was like watching a tier 3 nation playing. Every player was completely rattled. I still vividly remember Strauss making a (maybe our only) break and he slowed down after looking around because absolutely nobody was anywhere near him in support. BOD had the worst game I've ever seen, non-stop knock-ons; it was like he was wearing boxing gloves

I don't want to vote in that poll. Its fundamentally flawed.

jacothelad

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What about moral victories?

A dubious proposition. I think there have been victories that have been won by unethical means but morals and ethics in rugby would be difficult to balance. What does a losing team gain that might contribute to their well being or future well being that can make a loss become a moral victory?

If we go back over the years to a game in 1968 in which Ireland scored 3 penalties and England scored 3 three point kicks...one might have been a Bob Hiller drop goal from about half way and one penalty was given towards the end of the game, with Ireland leading 9-6 after Ireland scrum half Brendan Sherry deliberately threw the ball in to touch instead of running it in. Ireland were the better team. Sherry broke the laws of the game to try and gain an advantage which backfired. Is it still a moral victory because on the day Ireland were so much better than England yet contrived not to win.

Cheating in sport is more a matter of ethics than morals I suppose. Here are two examples that led to unethical victories in rugby.

Wales v. New Zealand in the game where Andy Haden cheated to con a penalty to beat Wales.

The Hand of Neil 'Scrofulous Tu&d' Back.

Often a relatively small nation will claim some sort of moral victory simply by running a more successful team close. It doesn't really mean much. It's cold comfort.

Yeah_Right

galwaylad14 wrote: »

I know there are no friendlies in International Rugby and all that (absolute genius bit of marketing this was in fairness to label them as "Tests") and in fairness these matches are taken a lot more seriously that their equilavents in other sports.

But to me the fact that that game against the All Blacks was just a "test" and not in a world cup or something does slightly take the disappointment out of it. At the end of the day we didn't beat them but it didn't cost us silverware or a chance at reaching a world cup semi final or something. And I was disgusted on the day but I got over it a lot quicker than the two quarter final defeats. Think I'd go with the Argentine one as being worse, sure we had bad injuries but deep down we all still expected to win that day and probably would have were it not for such a calamitous start.

People saying they were traumatised because we lost what is essentially a glorified friendly would want to get a grip

Nothing to do with marketing. Other sports have had World and European championships and the Olympics for decades now. Close to a century in some cases. The RWC is less than 30 years old. So before that the countries had to test themselves on tours to see who was best. That tradition and mentality has continued thankfully. Friendlies!! Bulls**t!!!

Snickers Man

PTH2009 wrote: »

We still would of won the title

Yeah like England "won" in 2001 after we beat them in the last game. Here's non playing captain Martin Johnson (he was injured) with the trophy after the match.

Look at the happy head on him!

Snickers Man

PTH2009 wrote: »

I knw not really a bad Irish loss but france beating Scotland with a last min tmo giving try in the 2007 6n. We would of won the title if that try was disallowed.

Irish TMO too.

Bad one.

Snickers Man

jacothelad wrote: »

I've been thinking about this thread. I've come to the conclusion that it's always the last defeat. So in philosophical terms - every defeat is the worst one - for a time, until the next 'worst ever' defeat come along.

I think with respect that has more to do with the youth of the posters than it has with the rapidity with which wounds heal.

If you want a really painful one from way back you could go to Cardiff in 1969. Ireland was playing its last match of the 5N against Wales and we had won the first three. Excitement was high Expectation too. The papers were looking forward to "Ireland's fifth Triple Crown" (nobody worried too much about "Grand Slams" in those days. France had only been back in the international fold for about 20 years then)

I was very young. It was the first season I remember watching but I was caught up by the fervour. Unfortunately, one of Ireland's key players, number 8 Ken Goodall was injured and missed the match.

The Welsh had a plan to neutralise another key forward, Noel Murphy. The Murphy Plan became evident after the first few minutes when he was laid out by Welsh captain Brian Price. Shortly afterwards, hooker Ken Kennedy was punched out of it in a scrum and then the other Irish flanker Jimmy Davidson was floored.

Wales won 24-11 and there are some old men still alive who have never forgiven the dirty Welsh bastards for it ever since (eh, dad )

Take it from one who still has to listen to the grumbles.

jacothelad wrote: »

Some are pure embarrassment - like losing to Scotland in Croke Park...or away to Italy.

A lot of people mention that Italian match. I don't rate that as being a terrible defeat. It was an unlucky one. Italy had some superb players (Parisse, Castrogiovanni, Bergamasco) and if memory serves it was the farewell match for an Italian legend Lo Cicero. So they were pumped for it.

Also, Ireland had horrendous injury problems, especially in the backs. Guys got injured, their replacements came on, only to go off hurt a few minutes later. They had to play the second half with a flanker (Peter O'Mahony, I think) playing on the wing. And they almost held out.

Give the Italians some respect. That wasn't a particularly inept performance.

JonnyF

hard to top 60-0 to BNZ in June 2012

sydthebeat

Deleted User wrote: »

Those three games you mention don't even come close. 60-0 to NZ. How can anything else be worse? We played well at times in the ones you mentions (possibly bar Wales 2011). 60-0 was a complete drubbing. It was like watching a tier 3 nation playing. Every player was completely rattled. I still vividly remember Strauss making a (maybe our only) break and he slowed down after looking around because absolutely nobody was anywhere near him in support. BOD had the worst game I've ever seen, non-stop knock-ons; it was like he was wearing boxing gloves

in a weird way my disappointment about that game was very much tempered by the performance of the week before.

the lads emptied the tank in that previous game and were crushed by the last minute drop goal..... so the result a week later was somewhat expected to be big, though not 'record' big