Saoirse Ronan, Sky News and 'claiming' Irish people as British

buried

Omackeral wrote: »

The majority of the people in this country wouldn't know the name of the street or area 'their' Premiership football team is located, never mind membership. And it's never Crystal Palace btw, just the historically successful big teams.

Kind of proves the point that the people in this country watch the Premiership on the TV for entertainment then doesn't it? If they don't even know the street or area where their team is located they must only know it from television. How have these people given up or thrown away their national identity by watching sport on television? They haven't, because you can't loose your national identity by watching TV. To suggest otherwise is utter gibberish talk

The_Captain

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Yes but somebody living local will have an attachment to a team, if you grow up in Salford you may have an connection to Manchester United, if you grow up in York, you may have a link to York City FC.

Following football is a culture over there, you support your own like we support our home counties in the GAA.

The Irish British soccer supporters treat the game like a consumer product, picking the best teams and watching them on Sky television etc. It's a very contrived experience really when you think about it.

Someone in Salford will support Manchester United, someone in York will support Manchester United, someone in Beijing will support Manchester United. In fact, I'd say there's more Manchester United supporters in York than there's York FC supporters.

When people say 'we' they aren't associating themselves with Mancunians, or the city, they're associating themselves with the team Manchester United (number of current first team players from Manchester: zero) and other Manchester United supporters.

You'll hear "we smashed you three nil last year" not "we have a stronger economy and better museums than you" or "Oasis are better than the Beatles because I support United"

People support these teams because they want to watch some of the worlds best teams playing high quality football, not Joe N'Do kicking blooters against Shelbourne

(disclaimer I don't support United, just don't see how supporting a team has any relevance to a discussion about nationality)

Omackeral

buried wrote: »

Kind of proves the point that the people in this country watch the Premiership on the TV for entertainment then doesn't it? If they don't even know the street or area where their team is located they must only know it from television. How have these people given up or thrown away their national identity by watching sport on television? They haven't, because you can't loose your national identity by watching TV. To suggest otherwise is utter gibberish talk

Well done on missing the actual point. They refer to the teams as 'we' and 'us' therefore appropriating the identity onto themselves thinking they belong and are part of it without actually bothering their hole going over. I'd have more time for someone who does go over and is a member, who immerses themselves into the culture on the regular. They'd have a worthwhile claim then. The fellas I know, not so much. Most haven't been this decade.

buried

Omackeral wrote: »

Well done on missing the actual point. They refer to the teams as 'we' and 'us' therefore appropriating the identity onto themselves thinking they belong and are part of it without actually bothering their hole going over. I'd have more time for someone who does go over and is a member, who immerses themselves into the culture on the regular. They'd have a worthwhile claim then. The fellas I know, not so much. Most haven't been this decade.

They are referring to a club, a business, not a country. Once again, how exactly does watching a football club on TV automatically mean the viewers national identity is lost?

The_Captain

Omackeral wrote: »

The majority of the people in this country wouldn't know the name of the street or area 'their' Premiership football team is located, never mind membership. And it's never Crystal Palace btw, just the historically successful big teams.

Anfield Stadium, on Anfield Road, in Anfield, Liverpool.
Old Trafford Stadium, located in Old Trafford, Manchester.
City of Manchester Stadium, located near the centre of the city of Manchester.

I imagine that the majority of supporters could take a pretty decent guess at where the stadiums are

Omackeral

The_Captain wrote: »

Someone in Salford will support Manchester United, someone in York will support Manchester United, someone in Beijing will support Manchester United. In fact, I'd say there's more Manchester United supporters in York than there's York FC supporters.

When people say 'we' they aren't associating themselves with Mancunians, or the city, they're associating themselves with the team Manchester United (number of current first team players from Manchester: zero) and other Manchester United supporters.

You'll hear "we smashed you three nil last year" not "we have a stronger economy and better museums than you" or "Oasis are better than the Beatles because I support United"

People support these teams because they want to watch some of the worlds best teams playing high quality football, not Joe N'Do kicking blooters against Shelbourne

(disclaimer I don't support United, just don't see how supporting a team has any relevance to a discussion about nationality)

Football teams around the world are generally supported by their local people. Stoke City draw from Stoke-On-Trent. Dundee United get their support from Dundee. Malaga CF get their support from Malaga. Hadjuk Split get their support from Split. It's the same the world over, not here though.

Supporting, in my mind, is a lot different from following on tv. It's the default setting of the Irishman to attach himself to Liverpool/United or another historically successful British team. Gas how you'd never get it in GAA. Imagine a Louth man supporting Kerry because they play the best brand of football. He'd be laughed out of it.

Also, Joey Ndo is a boss :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLP_IveV4JM

murpho999

Omackeral wrote: »

Football teams around the world are generally supported by their local people. Stoke City draw from Stoke-On-Trent. Dundee United get their support from Dundee. Malaga CF get their support from Malaga. Hadjuk Split get their support from Split. It's the same the world over, not here though.

Supporting, in my mind, is a lot different from following on tv. It's the default setting of the Irishman to attach himself to Liverpool/United or another historically successful British team. Gas how you'd never get it in GAA. Imagine a Louth man supporting Kerry because they play the best brand of football. He'd be laughed out of it.

Also, Joey Ndo is a boss :P

Why are you comparing a world sport like football to a minority sport like GAA.

As GAA is only popular in Ireland and is very much county based you cannot compare it to English football.

Popularity of it in Ireland started due to it being on TV but also due to the best Irish players playing there.
Clubs like Liverpool and Utd have a strong history of Irish players and connections and that's how the support base started.

Supporting a club does not dictate what your nationality is. I am a passionate Liverpool supporter all my life,go over when I can but I am 100% Irish.

Also, clubs like Real Madrid or Barcelona also have a strong foreign support (why do you thiink hey have websites in English) and their supporters don't become Spanish for supporting them.

It's a ridiculous argument normally spouted by people who don't follow the sport.

Omackeral

murpho999 wrote: »

Why are you comparing a world sport like football to a minority sport like GAA.

As GAA is only popular in Ireland and is very much county based you cannot compare it to English football.

Popularity of it in Ireland started due to it being on TV but also due to the best Irish players playing there.
Clubs like Liverpool and Utd have a strong history of Irish players and connections and that's how the support base started.

Supporting a club does not dictate what your nationality is. I am a passionate Liverpool supporter all my life,go over when I can but I am 100% Irish.

Also, clubs like Real Madrid or Barcelona also have a strong foreign support (why do you thiink hey have websites in English) and their supporters don't become Spanish for supporting them.

It's a ridiculous argument normally spouted by people who don't follow the sport.

Hilarious. I'm a season ticket holder at my team and go to all homes and 95% of aways. You go over when you can. I think I follow it quite enough.

Omackeral

The argument was made that GAA is about Counties. Football is about towns and regions too. Go to a Bradford game and you'll hear the accents. Ditto for a Scunthorpe match. That's why derby games have such an edge, people from neighbouring area going against each other. Do you think an Arsenal fan over here gets any more of a buzz when they beat Spurs over the likes of Aston Villa? Nope, cos he doesn't have any Tottenham fans to bounce off for the most part. It's a locality and tribal thing and IMO one of the best components of supporting your own.

I always laugh at the Liverpool and Manchester having Irish connections argument. They just happen to be the most successful teams too. My uncle lived there in the 80's. How come it's never Everton or Tranmere Rovers? Or how come it's seldom Crystal Palace or Charlton, plenty of Irish in London. If you're talking Irish players and staff, where are all the Sunderland fans gone? Where are the Wolves and Hull fans from today?



Anyway I'm gone miles off topic here.

murpho999

Omackeral wrote: »

Hilarious. I'm a season ticket holder at my team and go to all homes and 95% of aways. You go over when you can. I think I follow it quite enough.

Read my post, I said "normally", of course there are exceptions.

The_Captain

Omackeral wrote: »

Football teams around the world are generally supported by their local people. Stoke City draw from Stoke-On-Trent. Dundee United get their support from Dundee. Malaga CF get their support from Malaga. Hadjuk Split get their support from Split. It's the same the world over, not here though.

Supporting, in my mind, is a lot different from following on tv. It's the default setting of the Irishman to attach himself to Liverpool/United or another historically successful British team. Gas how you'd never get it in GAA. Imagine a Louth man supporting Kerry because they play the best brand of football. He'd be laughed out of it.

Also, Joey Ndo is a boss :P

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLP_IveV4JM

GAA is different because the only guys playing for Kerry are people from Kerry who played club football in Kerry. They've played in Kerry for Kerry all their lives, and the team is part of the culture.

What Bohs players are from Phibsboro and have only played for Bohs? Supporting the Dubs gives you a connection to a team that represents Dublin and identifies all their supporters as Dubs. Supporting Bohs only connects you to the other lads who support Bohs, they don't represent the area or the people.

Your Superior

The_Captain wrote: »

Anfield Stadium, on Anfield Road, in Anfield, Liverpool.
Old Trafford Stadium, located in Old Trafford, Manchester.
City of Manchester Stadium, located near the centre of the city of Manchester.

I imagine that the majority of supporters could take a pretty decent guess at where the stadiums are

Shows how little you know, Old Trafford is not in Manchester, it is in Trafford, hence the reason it is covered by Trafford Borough Council. City, on the other hand, IS in Manchester, and covered by the City of Manchester Council.

Amazing to me how many of these pathetic Irish "fans" know so little about the teams they profess to support, and how they all glory hunt after the successful teams. Funny how none of them support Wigan or Stoke etc...

If they'd only stay at home so the genuine fans over here could generate a real atmosphere, rather than it just being a trip to brag about in the pub when they get home.

As for it not being related to where you are from, what utter shiite! Find me a United fan from Liverpool, and vice versa, or a Sunderland fan in Newcastle... It's why teams even in the 4th tier get bigger crowds than LoI teams. We get bigger crowds in non-league even, because no matter what your town, there will be thousands there who support their home club. Unfortunately there are a few glory hunters here too, but nowhere near the numbers I've seen in Ireland.

The difference is, football MEANS something to us over here. To Irish fans it's just entertainment or bandwagoning.

The_Captain

Your Superior wrote: »

Shows how little you know, Old Trafford is not in Manchester, it is in Trafford, hence the reason it is covered by Trafford Borough Council. City, on the other hand, IS in Manchester, and covered by the City of Manchester Council.

Amazing to me how many of these pathetic Irish "fans" know so little about the teams they profess to support, and how they all glory hunt after the successful teams. Funny how none of them support Wigan or Stoke etc...

If they'd only stay at home so the genuine fans over here could generate a real atmosphere, rather than it just being a trip to brag about in the pub when they get home.

As for it not being related to where you are from, what utter shiite! Find me a United fan from Liverpool, and vice versa, or a Sunderland fan in Newcastle... It's why teams even in the 4th tier get bigger crowds than LoI teams. We get bigger crowds in non-league even, because no matter what your town, there will be thousands there who support their home club. Unfortunately there are a few glory hunters here too, but nowhere near the numbers I've seen in Ireland.

The difference is, football MEANS something to us over here. To Irish fans it's just entertainment or bandwagoning.

I'm so embarrassed for you. Old Trafford is actually north of Stretford, which itself is north of Trafford.
Your argument is basically saying Blackrock is in Dun Laoghaire because its part of Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown County Council.

If it's confusing, maybe you could ask Liverpool native Wayne Rooney about it.

Your Superior

The_Captain wrote: »

I'm so embarrassed for you. Old Trafford is actually north of Stretford, which itself is north of Trafford.
Your argument is basically saying Blackrock is in Dun Laoghaire because its part of Dunlaoghaire-Rathdown County Council.

If it's confusing, maybe you could ask Liverpool native Wayne Rooney about it.

Ah, so I see you know Manchester better than I do? You know, seeing as I was born 4 miles from there, have worked there for 25 years, and been to Old Trafford countless times as an away supporter or to watch rugby.

Or even better than Trafford Borough Council, who are the council for Old Trafford.

Or better than this map https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-uN3y9qvKAhXDzRQKHcCMBKsQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.manchester2002-uk.com%2Fmaps%2Ftrafford-map.html&psig=AFQjCNE4gjfKHoEMCZZ6MUAmRPmphvquhQ&ust=1452951127501251 which show Old Trafford to be in Trafford, just as this one does too http://www.pcgraphics.uk.com/trafford.html

Stop talking utter nonsense.

Boom_Bap

MOD
Without reading the full thread, I can see that this discussion has derailed to geography and soccer.
Whoever started the argument of 'but we support English football teams' argument, which I would assume was in the first 20 posts, hang your head in shame.

Can we get this back to how Irish people are claimed as British?

Omackeral

It's not that we support them though, it's that we claim them as 'ours'. 'We', 'us' etc much the way they claimed Saoirse as theirs. Anyway, I'm out, just wanted to explain my point!

SHOVELLER

The_Captain wrote: »

Someone in Salford will support Manchester United, someone in York will support Manchester United, someone in Beijing will support Manchester United. In fact, I'd say there's more Manchester United supporters in York than there's York FC supporters.

When people say 'we' they aren't associating themselves with Mancunians, or the city, they're associating themselves with the team Manchester United (number of current first team players from Manchester: zero) and other Manchester United supporters.

You'll hear "we smashed you three nil last year" not "we have a stronger economy and better museums than you" or "Oasis are better than the Beatles because I support United"

People support these teams because they want to watch some of the worlds best teams playing high quality football, not Joe N'Do kicking blooters against Shelbourne


(disclaimer I don't support United, just don't see how supporting a team has any relevance to a discussion about nationality)

Thank you for showing your ignorance about the game.

kleefarr

What a funny thread.
The Irish try to claim anyone they like as being Irish. It is especially apparent if they have an Irish surname. We all know in present times that means nothing anymore.
My surname is of French origin, but I am no more French than Barak Obama.

Dirty Dingus McGee

kleefarr wrote: »

What a funny thread.
The Irish try to claim anyone they like as being Irish. It is especially apparent if they have an Irish surname. We all know in present times that means nothing anymore.
My surname is of French origin, but I am no more French than Barak Obama.

I don't think that does happen in fairness.We say people have Irish ancestry not say they are actually Irish there is a difference between the 2.

kleefarr

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I don't think that does happen in fairness.We say people have Irish ancestry not say they are actually Irish there is a difference between the 2.

Yeah, ok.
We all have African ancestry.

LordSutch

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

I don't think that does happen in fairness.We say people have Irish ancestry not say they are actually Irish there is a difference between the 2.

Well you do hear it from time to time, plus the fact that if somebody has red hair they must be of Irish ancestry Americans are of course notorious for claiming to be "Irish", even if, like Obama their claim may only be 1/16th valid. Then you have 2nd generation people in Britain who claim to be 100% British (but with irish ancestry), so its all very complicated and open to discussion. Most importantly of all, its mostly down to a frame of mind and personal identity.

NIMAN

If they have an Irish surname, then technically they most likely have Irish blood in them, although admittedly it might be well diluted at this stage!

The one thing I do hate is how us Irish get all excited when any kind of famous person visits the country. In the past I have seen headlines on RTE News Now saying "George Clooney to take holiday in Ireland this summer". And? Is this news?

Dirty Dingus McGee

kleefarr wrote: »

Yeah, ok.
We all have African ancestry.

Yeah it doesn't happen though.

You don't hear people in Ireland claiming some American,British actor etc is Irish.They might mention they have Irish ancestry but I've never heard the media claim that someone famous with Irish ancestry was actually Irish.

kleefarr

NIMAN wrote: »

If they have an Irish surname, then technically they most likely have Irish blood in them, although admittedly it might be well diluted at this stage!

The one thing I do hate is how us Irish get all excited when any kind of famous person visits the country. In the past I have seen headlines on RTE News Now saying "George Clooney to take holiday in Ireland this summer". And? Is this news?

I think it's been said that everyone in Europe has blood from Charlemagne

https://www.theguardian.com/science/commentisfree/2015/may/24/business-genetic-ancestry-charlemagne-adam-rutherford

I am more a World Citizen.

indioblack

LordSutch wrote: »

Well you do hear it from time to time, plus the fact that if somebody has red hair they must be of Irish ancestry Americans are of course notorious for claiming to be "Irish", even if, like Obama their claim may only be 1/16th valid. Then you have 2nd generation people in Britain who claim to be 100% British (but with irish ancestry), so its all very complicated and open to discussion. Most importantly of all, its mostly down to a frame of mind and personal identity.

That last sentence is true.
I was born here in England, with one Irish parent. To my workmates, for example, I'm Irish - [One recently asked me if I'd be going back to Ireland when I retire - it's a thought].
When I'm with friends and relatives in Cork I'm obviously English - can't escape that carrot crunchers accent!
I think you're last sentence was right - it's a frame of mind.
Even though I've always lived here, I feel I've more connection with Ireland.
One positive aspect is that it confuses the hell out of my Irish relatives - always keep 'em guessing!

feargale

kleefarr wrote: »

I am more a World Citizen.

Lucky guy! You get to celebrate after every world cup, regardless of who wins.