Saoirse Ronan, Sky News and 'claiming' Irish people as British

LorMal

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Sure god love you with your self-loathing 'everything was better when we were run from London' bullshit. I pity you. Ireland was essentially a big farm that supplied the murderous British empire. Happy days, huh?

Even if your propaganda was true (Dublin had the highest child mortality rates in Britain and Ireland) did you know that economic conditions improved for slaves in the US in the 19th Century compared with the previous century? Does that make slavery any less reprehensible? Nah, of course it doesn't.

Dear me, I struck a nerve with you, didn't I? You obviously prefer to cling to the narrative that the British are the cause of all our problems and we are the poor victims of their oppression.
As the grandson of children who were all born and reared in the tenements of Dublin (and subsequently in Goldenbridge orphanage) at that time, let me assure you that they placed the blame firmly on their own countrymen and women. It was primarily IRISH landlords that owned the tenements of Dublin and it was DUBLIN CORPORATION that turned a blind eye to the squalor, deprivation and poverty. It was our stupid ignorant bigoted politicians who kept us in poverty for the first 50 years of our independance.
But you know better....

LorMal

Dublin Housing Inquiry 1914:

The report of the Dublin Housing Inquiry has revealed that 14 sitting members of Dublin Corporation own tenement houses in the city.

Several members of the Corporation own more than a dozen houses each, while ten own up to three houses each.


One member, Alderman Corrigan, owns 19 tenement houses and a further 13 smaller houses across the city. Several of these houses - all of which are rented out - are classed as being unfit for human habitation and incapable of being rendered fit for such habitation.

Alderman Corrigan, as well as other members of the Corporation, also received rebate of taxes despite the fact that the houses do not meet basic living standards. In two instances, Alderman Corrigan received rebates on properties despite the fact that the sanitary sub-officer has declined to certify them as fit for a rebate.

In one of the houses, the drains are not properly trapped or ventilated and the house is filthy; in the other there are no toilet facilities in the house or in the backyard and tenants are forced to go to their neighbours houses to use the toilet.

Paramite Pie

Fratton Fred wrote: »

In truth, the British just don't see the Irish as being foreign. We know you aren't British, but just not foreign.

And a lot of Irish don't see the British as foreign either. There's an sort of curious status legally speaking for Irish people in the UK, we sort of treated like estranged citizens or something.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

And all the time Obama plaza exists, I don't think Ireland can really complain. I wonder how the Kenyans feel about tourist signs to his ancestral home.

Why would Kenyan's complain, or feel anything? Mr. Obama is biracial. And all Irish-American Presidents play up on their "herritage". No worse than renaming Eyre Square to JFK "plazza" in Galway. (which has never really caught on).

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I've got an Irish great grand mother and the President hasn't offered me honorary citizenship, maybe the Irish only claim famous people as their own.....

You'd easily get citizenship if you can prove an Irish ancestor within 5 generations. Due to the Common Travel Agreement there's probably no pressure or need -- but the option is there.;)

darkpagandeath wrote: »

So not being born in the 32 counties she is American glad we cleared that up. Just like fassbender.

Simplistic way of viewing things. And Fassbender was born in West Germany which no longer "exists". Is he Stateless or Nation-less?:p

I have cousins living in Finland, Sweden and England -- their kids consider themselves as Irish as they are Finnish, Swedish and English. Some of them even play GAA and do Irish music/dancing in their resident countries.

Omackeral

murpho999 wrote: »

You always bring up sport. I have told you before It is nothing to do with your nationality.
Premiership teams are huge in Asia, does that make them British?
I know a guy who refers to an Ice Hockey team in New York as "we" when he talks about them. Does that make him American?

It makes him a bit of an eejit tbh.

stoneill

Candie wrote: »

I can't imagine what would happen if the British PM or the Queen pitched up in Dublin and handed out certificates of Britishness to anyone who's granddad was born in London.

It seems like a very undiplomatic thing to do, for anyone who's a guest in another country.

My Ma would love that - she has the good china all ready in case Mrs Windsor calls.

xband

Shurimgreat wrote: »

A lot of those in entertainment spend most of their lives abroad. Bob Geldof, left Ireland at 20 or so, hasn't been really back since, called us a banana republic, knighted and so on. The British could almost claim him as their own. Shane McGowan, very strong Irish roots but not technically Irish. The Gallagher brothers probably think of themselves more Irish than anything. Richard Harris, spent most of his life in the UK.

As for Maureen O'Hara, by and large I'd say she she'd be considered American, but then again someone will no doubt contradict me on that.

Le Soir in Belgium news ran with the death of American Actress, Maureen O'Hara.

Le Monde in France didn't :

http://mobile.lemonde.fr/disparitions/article/2015/10/24/mort-de-l-actrice-irlandaise-maureen-o-hara_4796428_3382.html

Minderbinder

murpho999 wrote: »

Seriously,what are you on about and can you back up anything that you say here?

Ireland and UK are major trading partners, both important to each other so what are you implying.

The truth is Ireland is convenient for the UK but by no means are we important. Ireland is totally dependent on other nations doing business with us, investing here or setting up their HQ's in this tax haven. We are an independent country in name but our economic progress depends on what others nations can do for us. Our only idea to make ourselves competitive has been to bend the rules regarding tax.

We produce milk powder, for which there is a big demand in huge markets like China but we sell the raw materials to British companies who make most of the profit, and of course we can find their brands on our own shelves in supermarkets.

I'm not an expert and I can only go on my own experience and other peoples' interpretation of Ireland. Outside of Europe the majority of people are at least confused about the question of whether we are in the UK or not. Many argue when I tell them we are not.

I was in a major international city recently and I was helping a friend apply for an Irish visa. The Irish visa 'centre' was basically one desk inside the UK centre with Ireland written underneath. The place was decorated with union jacks, British trivia and videos of London, the lake district, oxford and so on.

Our government wants us to be affiliated with and confused for being part of the UK.

xband

That applies to all countries in a globalised world.

If other countries stopped trading with Britian in the morning, it would collapse.

If people stopped buying German cars and goods, Germany would be bankrupt.

Most of Europe relies on Russia for gas, the Middle East for oil, China for manufacturered goods.

If China suddenly lost access to markets it would collapse.

The U.K. and many others couldn't even feed themselves with domestic agriculture.

Ireland is no more or less dependent on global trade than any other globally trading economy.

RobertKK

Minderbinder wrote: »

The truth is Ireland is convenient for the UK but by no means are we important. Ireland is totally dependent on other nations doing business with us, investing here or setting up their HQ's in this tax haven. We are an independent country in name but our economic progress depends on what others nations can do for us. Our only idea to make ourselves competitive has been to bend the rules regarding tax.

We produce milk powder, for which there is a big demand in huge markets like China but we sell the raw materials to British companies who make most of the profit, and of course we can find their brands on our own shelves in supermarkets.

I'm not an expert and I can only go on my own experience and other peoples' interpretation of Ireland. Outside of Europe the majority of people are at least confused about the question of whether we are in the UK or not. Many argue when I tell them we are not.

I was in a major international city recently and I was helping a friend apply for an Irish visa. The Irish visa 'centre' was basically one desk inside the UK centre with Ireland written underneath. The place was decorated with union jacks, British trivia and videos of London, the lake district, oxford and so on.

Our government wants us to be affiliated with and confused for being part of the UK.

Glabalisation means most countries are dependent on other countries. It is not just Ireland.
Look at the biggest economy in Europe - Germany, they depend on exports.
No country is an island when it comes to economics, even North Korea depends on China.
Anyway if one is Irish, British or German for example, we all share common citizenship.

xband

Also, with regard to Dairy, you're looking at one narrow example.

Ireland has some enormous dairy and food companies at this stage

Kerry Group and Glanbia are serious (and growing) global players with operations in 22+ countries and huge operations in the US and UK and own a lot more brands than you'd think...

Kerry in particular is hugely high tech food ingredients responsible for a lot of the flavours of major consumer food items all over the world.

You'll actually find a lot of the "UK" brands aren't that either. Most major food brands are owned by multinationals anyway.

Paramite Pie

Minderbinder wrote: »

The truth is Ireland is convenient for the UK but by no means are we important. Ireland is totally dependent on other nations doing business with us, investing here or setting up their HQ's in this tax haven. We are an independent country in name but our economic progress depends on what others nations can do for us. Our only idea to make ourselves competitive has been to bend the rules regarding tax.

Aren't most countries these days?

Minderbinder wrote: »

We produce milk powder, for which there is a big demand in huge markets like China but we sell the raw materials to British companies who make most of the profit, and of course we can find their brands on our own shelves in supermarkets.

That's a shame -- lack of homegrown industry is a big problem, as is brain drain. Considering Dublin is a relatively large airport hub these days, we could easily process raw resources ourselves and ship to China and Middle Eastern Markets. I'm sure the routes are there.

murpho999

Minderbinder wrote: »

The truth is Ireland is convenient for the UK but by no means are we important. Ireland is totally dependent on other nations doing business with us, investing here or setting up their HQ's in this tax haven. We are an independent country in name but our economic progress depends on what others nations can do for us. Our only idea to make ourselves competitive has been to bend the rules regarding tax.

We produce milk powder, for which there is a big demand in huge markets like China but we sell the raw materials to British companies who make most of the profit, and of course we can find their brands on our own shelves in supermarkets.

I'm not an expert and I can only go on my own experience and other peoples' interpretation of Ireland. Outside of Europe the majority of people are at least confused about the question of whether we are in the UK or not. Many argue when I tell them we are not.

I was in a major international city recently and I was helping a friend apply for an Irish visa. The Irish visa 'centre' was basically one desk inside the UK centre with Ireland written underneath. The place was decorated with union jacks, British trivia and videos of London, the lake district, oxford and so on.

Our government wants us to be affiliated with and confused for being part of the UK.

You really are ill informed.

Ireland is quite important to the UK. This article shows Ireland to be UK's fifth largest export market, ahead of China.
It's so important that the UK lent Ireland money at the time of the economic crisis. Many in the UK viewed it as a bail out but it was strictly a business decision to protect UK interests.

Your point about milk powder is just how the world works nowadays, so I don't see the issue.

As for the Visa centre, strange, sounds more like a private processing office than an consulate/embassy.

The Golden Miller

languagenerd wrote: »

Irish and British cultures are broadly similar but they differ on a lot of points.

I don't think there is a "British culture" at all. What would it be? Royalism? Anything else is pretty much distinct but similar English, Scottish and Welsh cultures

THall04

Nice to see some British reaction over Kate Winslet being Irish
http://www.theslicedpan.com/humour/the-appalled-british-reaction-to-waterford-whispers-describing-kate-winslet-as-irish/321349

FatherTed

Nominated for an Oscar today so now she's British again.

vicwatson

BBC Claire Baldy show just introduced Barry McGuigan as British, thought he was from Clones, Co.Monaghan ? Maybe I'm wrong

Beefy78

vicwatson wrote: »

BBC Claire Baldy show just introduced Barry McGuigan as British, thought he was from Clones, Co.Monaghan ? Maybe I'm wrong

He is a British citizen

SHOVELLER

While it may seem annoying to some it is highly hypocritical when a huge proportion of Irish walk around in jersies of "their" favourite english football team of the moment i.e. whoever is winning.

feargale

AndyBoBandy wrote: »

Claims she's from Carlow yet sounding like she's from Sheriff Street!! That's what I'm offended by!

"Whas da bleedin storee bud"

Dear God! The things that upset people!

Junkyard Tom

SHOVELLER wrote: »

While it may seem annoying to some it is highly hypocritical when a huge proportion of Irish walk around in jersies of "their" favourite english football team of the moment i.e. whoever is winning.

No.

It would be hypocritical if the Irish people who support soccer clubs located in Britain (with all their non-British players and supporters) claimed they were 'Irish teams' when they were doing well while giving out about British nationalists (or maybe they're just a bit thick) claiming Irish people as 'British'.

DEFTLEFTHAND

It is a bit pathetic the way many Irish give their loyalty to Manchester United or Liverpool. The most funny one is Chelesa, look up Chelsea Headhunters and the Blues Brothers Alliance. Loyalist to the core.

I enjoy watching British soccer but the only teams I really support are the Tipperary Hurling and Football teams, as I'm originally from the county.

Junkyard Tom

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It is a bit pathetic the way many Irish give their loyalty to Manchester United or Liverpool.

It's only sport loyalty to what are essentially brands not unlike like Nike or Adidas not 'I will die for our values, principles, nationhood, and freedom' loyalty.

buried

SHOVELLER wrote: »

While it may seem annoying to some it is highly hypocritical when a huge proportion of Irish walk around in jersies of "their" favourite english football team of the moment i.e. whoever is winning.

This weak Bullsh!t argument has been done to death. So any Irish citizen can lay claim/or can be claimed to be"British" because some Irish people are fans of English football teams?
Billions of people all over the entire planet are fans of English football teams, does that mean they can all lay claim to be English? Demand a English passport? Just because they watch 90 minutes of entertainment broadcast from England? It would be actually funny if they did, just for the Daily Mail headlines alone.
I'm sure plenty of Syrian refugee's are fans of English football teams, but.... that means they're "British" right? Let them into Britain so. They've claimed their status by watching British sport, haven't they? lol Lets see how many Sky news reporters "claim" those folks are 'British'.
English football is the ultimate real life soap opera due to its hyped drama and frantic entertainment, that's how corporations sell it to the entire planet. Just because somebody watches it doesn't make them English. I'm a fan of "Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia" but that doesn't mean I can rock up to US Customs demanding my USA Citizenship rights just because I watch a few hours of American broadcasting entertainment during the year

DEFTLEFTHAND

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's only sport loyalty to what are essentially brands not unlike like Nike or Adidas not 'I will die for our values, principles, nationhood, and freedom' loyalty.

Yes but somebody living local will have an attachment to a team, if you grow up in Salford you may have an connection to Manchester United, if you grow up in York, you may have a link to York City FC.

Following football is a culture over there, you support your own like we support our home counties in the GAA.

The Irish British soccer supporters treat the game like a consumer product, picking the best teams and watching them on Sky television etc. It's a very contrived experience really when you think about it.

The Golden Miller

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Yes but somebody living local will have an attachment to a team, if you grow up in Salford you may have an connection to Manchester United, if you grow up in York, you may have a link to York City FC.

Following football is a culture over there, you support your own like we support our home counties in the GAA.

The Irish British soccer supporters treat the game like a consumer product, picking the best teams and watching them on Sky television etc. It's a very contrived experience really when you think about it.

It's embarrassing, especially when you take into account that our league is in tatters over here. Imagine everyone who followed an English team followed a League of Ireland team. You'd be getting attendances of over 25,000, similar to the way it used to be before Match of the Day was introduced over here. Imagine the money being pumped into the league and what it could be put towards like academies and being able to hold onto better players, which in turn means more people would come to watch a far higher standard of football. Nation of bandwagoners

Although in saying that, I don't find it particularly contradictory for an Irish person/nationalist to follow an English team, with the exception of Chelsea.

SHOVELLER

buried wrote: »

This weak Bullsh!t argument has been done to death. So any Irish citizen can lay claim/or can be claimed to be"British" because some Irish people are fans of English football teams?
Billions of people all over the entire planet are fans of English football teams, does that mean they can all lay claim to be English? Demand a English passport? Just because they watch 90 minutes of entertainment broadcast from England? It would be actually funny if they did, just for the Daily Mail headlines alone.
I'm sure plenty of Syrian refugee's are fans of English football teams, but.... that means they're "British" right? Let them into Britain so. They've claimed their status by watching British sport, haven't they? lol Lets see how many Sky news reporters "claim" those folks are 'British'.
English football is the ultimate real life soap opera due to its hyped drama and frantic entertainment, that's how corporations sell it to the entire planet. Just because somebody watches it doesn't make them English. I'm a fan of "Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia" but that doesn't mean I can rock up to US Customs demanding my USA Citizenship rights just because I watch a few hours of American broadcasting entertainment during the year

Ah the old "I watch tv" real bullsh1t argument.

It's the clowns in Ireland who spend hundreds of thousands out of the country annually "following" their winning english team and who have the nerve to pretend they are Irish and then take deep offense when Saoirse Ronan is called british. That IS hypocritical.

Notice how they all "support" the top clubs in the top division in england. Ask them why they dont "support" hartlepool, rotherham etc. Glory hunters screaming at the tv on a sunday with all the other hypocrits. But you do have the others who "support" lightweights like qpr and think they are differnet. Yeah you go around with queens park rangers on your tricolour and pretend you're Irish.

Syrian refugees, brands, entertainment is all a smokescreen.

The Golden Miller

SHOVELLER wrote: »

It's the clowns in Ireland who spend hundreds of thousands out of the country annually "following" their winning english team and who have the nerve to pretend they are Irish and then take deep offense when Saoirse Ronan is called british. That IS hypocritical.

I don't follow an English team myself but it's simply not hypocritical. How is it? The football club and media are completely separate entities and are unrelated. Why can't someone support an English team (where they've absolutely no problem with England) and also be annoyed with a separate entity/media continually claiming our people? So I wanted Judd Trump to win the World Snooker Championship and he's English so now I can't be critical of a completely unrelated media claiming an Irish person in a completely unrelated scenario to Judd Trump? So if an English person followed Bohemians and our media was continually claiming British people who have no connection to Ireland, he is a hypocrite if he gets annoyed by this? Or are you just trying to made tedious links to get to the stereotype of the lad down the pub who says fcuk the queen and up the RA while wearing a United jersey......the barstool republican etc etc etc. Basically what your saying is that if you have a problem with one aspect of English society (the media) that means you have to have a problem with everything English, and if not you're a hypocrite.

Omackeral

Listen it's like this. People aren't berating folks for following an English/British team. It's more the point that they call the teams 'we' and 'us', therefore applying an identity to the whole experience. So how can someone take umbrage at anything when they go around calling themselves and each other Scousers and Mancs? That's the crux of the argument in my opinion.

buried

Omackeral wrote: »

Listen it's like this. People aren't berating folks for following an English/British team. It's more the point that they call the teams 'we' and 'us', therefore applying an identity to the whole experience. So how can someone take umbrage at anything when they go around calling themselves and each other Scousers and Mancs? That's the crux of the argument in my opinion.

Football clubs are open to membership and I think in the current globalized climate that membership is open to anybody in any country. That doesn't mean the member has now given up or thrown away their own national identity just because they're now a member of Crystal Palace

Omackeral

buried wrote: »

Football clubs are open to membership and I think in the current globalized climate that membership is open to anybody in any country. That doesn't mean the member has now given up or thrown away their own national identity just because they're now a member of Crystal Palace

The majority of the people in this country wouldn't know the name of the street or area 'their' Premiership football team is located, never mind membership. And it's never Crystal Palace btw, just the historically successful big teams.