Robot milking 60 cows

frazzledhome

liam7831 wrote: »

Id say fellas were expecting milk to be making a lot more than it is at the moment to pay for robot investment. Think most ppl thought it was a sure way to early retirement

Simple fact is that dairy farming done properly is by far the most profitable type of farming.

I know lads are laughing up their sleeves at guys that got into dairy in the last few years. There seems to be a view that it's only a matter of time till they crash.

I have to say that the new entrants I know are really well financed and loving every bit of their change and their improved income

Timmaay

frazzledhome wrote: »

Simple fact is that dairy farming done properly is by far the most profitable type of farming.

I know lads are laughing up their sleeves at guys that got into dairy in the last few years. There seems to be a view that it's only a matter of time till they crash.

I have to say that the new entrants I know are really well financed and loving every bit of their change and their improved income

How many of your new entrant friends have only 60 cows and a robot?

liam7831

frazzledhome wrote: »

Simple fact is that dairy farming done properly is by far the most profitable type of farming.

I know lads are laughing up their sleeves at guys that got into dairy in the last few years. There seems to be a view that it's only a matter of time till they crash.

I have to say that the new entrants I know are really well financed and loving every bit of their change and their improved income

Ya as long as their backing brave they will be fine....

frazzledhome

liam7831 wrote: »

Ya as long as their backing brave they will be fine....

What a <snip> ill informed reply

frazzledhome

Timmaay wrote: »

How many of your new entrant friends have only 60 cows and a robot?

You know that answer

ganmo

frazzledhome wrote: »

What a <snip> ill informed reply

Sarcasm translator not working?

Bass Reeves

C0N0R wrote: »

Turnover and profit two different things!

Yes I know the difference between profit and turnover. IMO it would be a tight call however milk at 24c/Kg is equivlent to drystock just to put it in context. IMO he would see all the money for the first 5 years going in payments. However it may well be a very viable enterprise. I have considered it myself and often wonder why other do not consider it.

I gave my turnover off low to moderate producing cows. Neither did I quote the highest peak price which averaged near 40c/L for a some farmers in 2014. I was point out the advantage of entering now while cows are cheap and robots are discounted rather than at a peak when you might need another 100K to finance the operation. It hard to see prices remaining this low for all of next year. Remember nothing cures low prices like low prices especially in the dairying industry

Sam Kade wrote: »

Most profitable idea so far. Then he could start small with 20-30 heifers and a 6 unit parlour that can be extended and test the water.

Not sure if this is a viable option if you intend working as well. Spending 3-4 hours/day milking after travelling to and from work as well as an 8-9 hour day. The robot is the only option if you want to milk cows and work. It might take 10 years to get it sorted and paid but you would have a good income off it after that.

liam7831 wrote: »

Id say fellas were expecting milk to be making a lot more than it is at the moment to pay for robot investment. Think most ppl thought it was a sure way to early retirement

Milk always has peaks and troughs it is cyclic like pork. Last year was not as bad as previous troughs as no quota allowed farmers to maximise production and a good autumn allowed alot of dairy farmers to produce a lot of cheap milk off grass. Because of no quota's did a lot farmers produce 15-20% more milk/cow than they would have if quota's existed. An extra 750 litres of milk was worth about 200 euro to the average dairy farmer at virtually no extra cost. I do not see too many dairy farmers going broke even new entrants.

farmerman

Markcheese wrote: »

You'll be starting with a lot less than 60 and working your way up to that .... but your cost for the robot is pretty much fi,xed from day 1 , (and you're kind of stuck on 60 no matter how much land comes up next door unless you shell out for a second robot - plus putting up a cubicle house -all expensive as will be paddocks-roads water and cows ....
If you could find some other mug to put it under grass and pay you 300 an acre until they go bust you'd be a lot better off. And you'd get to keep more of it tax wise too . Might be an over cynical view though..

That'd be the easy option though. I've no interest in taking the easy way out, the whole idea behind it is that I try better the farm and run it to its maximum potential. I'm also trying to better myself and achieve my ambitions. While I respect your point it would do nothing for improving myself to just lease out the land and sit at home in the evenings. Maybe 10 years in the workin world will change this view and I'll be glad to sit at home in the evenings but I'm determined to seek out my options and see what I feel is the best arrangement and see it through to the end.

BPH35172

farmerman wrote: »

That'd be the easy option though. I've no interest in taking the easy way out, the whole idea behind it is that I try better the farm and run it to its maximum potential. I'm also trying to better myself and achieve my ambitions. While I respect your point it would do nothing for improving myself to just lease out the land and sit at home in the evenings. Maybe 10 years in the workin world will change this view and I'll be glad to sit at home in the evenings but I'm determined to seek out my options and see what I feel is the best arrangement and see it through to the end.

Hi Farmerman,
I am delighted you enjoy farming interests. I don't know how old you are but you remind me of what it was like for myself starting off after college in my early 20's. I had fully intended to change the world, and there were nights I barely slept thinking about the endless possibilities.

You are young, you will have a tidy asset coming to you in future. There is no one in this world telling you should build a super intensive unit on 60 acres while you try to hold down a full time employment. I will advise you, you can focus on building a rewarding career for yourself, not a job, knowing that there is something to fall back on. Take your time to find the type of work you enjoy most.

I fear your plan would in time, break many strong individuals leaving them wondering what did I do with the best years of their youth. Do you really want to have a half head of hair before you realised you dived into something too young and forgot to live life?

I admire you are not willing "to take the easy way out". Sometimes easy works best for everyone in the long run.

As you say, in 10 yrs time, who knows?
But in the meantime, do what's best for
you first, and then your family.

Enjoy the ride

einn32

Maybe go see one in action where the farmer also has a job? You could also get a quote for one to see what you will be actually dealing with. Do a rough budget up as to what the place needs to become a dairy farm. It will put a perspective on it. Inquire about leasing land too. 60 cows is now considered small and bigger herds are required to sustain a nice living but I guess that is where your job will come in. Juggling the two sounds hard but over time you could be big enough to be farming full time.

Life is not all about work too! Best of luck!

Farmer Ed

einn32 wrote: »

Maybe go see one in action where the farmer also has a job? You could also get a quote for one to see what you will be actually dealing with. Do a rough budget up as to what the place needs to become a dairy farm. It will put a perspective on it. Inquire about leasing land too. 60 cows is now considered small and bigger herds are required to sustain a nice living but I guess that is where your job will come in. Juggling the two sounds hard but over time you could be big enough to be farming full time.

Life is not all about work too! Best of luck!

In my opinion, renting land is probably the biggest elephant in the room. Teagasc don't include it as a common cost so I'm not sure how much discussion is done about it in discussion groups. It's easy to make paying 300 and acre look profitable..if it's not being included as a cost. Also above a certain size you will have to give up your job. Grow even more and you'll have to employ labour. So you now are a tenant farmer with no other income and with rent and wages to pay.

?????

Bass Reeves

Farmer Ed wrote: »

In my opinion, renting land is probably the biggest elephant in the room. Teagasc don't include it as a common cost so I'm not sure how much discussion is done about it in discussion groups. It's easy to make paying 300 and acre look profitable..if it's not being included as a cost. Also above a certain size you will have to give up your job. Grow even more and you'll have to employ labour. So you now are a tenant farmer with no other income and with rent and wages to pay.

?????

I think too many look at scale as equal to profit. The one man operation running 70-80 cows with low labour and rental costs is probably the most viable for most farmers. After that you need different skill sets to manage large operations.

A lad that has 100+ acres on one block amd is tempted to milk off this at it maximum. He then ends up milking 150 cows with a fulltime labour unit and 50 acres rented and wonders why his liftyle has changed completely and he has little extra profit. His labour bill may be 35K and renting 50 acres is costing 12.5K his production/cow is down 200 litres/cow from the days when he was milking 70-80 and other costs have risen as well.

Farmerman is looking at a different option here. He has no parlour at present so the cost of this deducted helps the economics in his favour. There is no reason in 10-15 years time there will not be 20-30 operation like his in most counties east of the Shannon. This may change the viability with service men available to sort issue's while farm owners work. I think on a small greenfield/changeover dairy operation where the owners are employed that robots may be a viable option. It would be intresting if teagasc did a study on them with the economics of different cow types. The 1.5 milkings/day is an idea worth exploring on a larger farm capable of milking up to 100 cows. OAD milking is another option for those that want to milk cows and have to work and want to milk cows.

Markcheese

farmerman wrote:

That'd be the easy option though. I've no interest in taking the easy way out, the whole idea behind it is that I try better the farm and run it to its maximum potential. I'm also trying to better myself and achieve my ambitions. While I respect your point it would do nothing for improving myself to just lease out the land and sit at home in the evenings. Maybe 10 years in the workin world will change this view and I'll be glad to sit at home in the evenings but I'm determined to seek out my options and see what I feel is the best arrangement and see it through to the end.

And whats wrong with the easy way .. but I was being a bit ott ...
A lot is going to come down to finance ... I'd say go budget / low cost- start with grass and heifers ,and planning... it takes time to build up skills habits contacts and the right people/cotractors .... dont jump to put in concrete straight away -keep your options open and good luck

mayota

I think OP should use his skills and motivation off farm. The thread started off talking of 60 cows but with 40 acres you won't have a minute to yourself never mind the investment needed. As for sitting around in the evenings, bring the children to their hobbies or the missus to dinner. If you don't have either make to most of your youth.

Panch18

50 cows on a once a day system

cheap second hand 8-10 unit parlour (worth going for more units as you'll be working)

Full time job

If you really really want to milk cows start like that and see how you go

Deepsouthwest

Panch18 wrote: »

50 cows on a once a day system

cheap second hand 8-10 unit parlour (worth going for more units as you'll be working)

Full time job

If you really really want to milk cows start like that and see how you go

+1, That's the best solution I've heard so far

Timmaay

Panch18 wrote: »

50 cows on a once a day system

cheap second hand 8-10 unit parlour (worth going for more units as you'll be working)

Full time job

If you really really want to milk cows start like that and see how you go

Agreed fully, only other thing I'd add is make sure the cows are able for it, will need to be a cow with a bit of milk, some cows tend to themselves off come August time from OAD milking, also a very Br Fr cow will put wayyy too much condition on her back from OAD all year around.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Ed wrote: »

In my opinion, renting land is probably the biggest elephant in the room. Teagasc don't include it as a common cost so I'm not sure how much discussion is done about it in discussion groups. It's easy to make paying 300 and acre look profitable..if it's not being included as a cost
?????

Yes it is. It's actually the first cost u enter on a profit monitor.

Farmer Ed

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Yes it is. It's actually the first cost u enter on a profit monitor.

My apologies but normally only common costs are put up on boards at farm walks. Land rental is not a common cost and up until recently a cost that was getting very little attention.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Ed wrote: »

My apologies but normally only common costs are put up on boards at farm walks. Land rental is not a common cost and up until recently a cost that was getting very little attention.

Here's an old pm input sheet from 2006/07, its included then as well. Not sure what u call recent, but 8/9 yrs is stretching it!
The reason it's not on boards at farm walks, is that it's not fair on the other farmer who's receiving the rent to be making his finances public.

frazzledhome

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Here's an old pm input sheet from 2006/07, its included then as well. Not sure what u call recent, but 8/9 yrs is stretching it!
The reason it's not on boards at farm walks, is that it's not fair on the other farmer who's receiving the rent to be making his finances public.

It has been part of every PM I've done and we're doing it since Day 1.

Farmer Ed

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Here's an old pm input sheet from 2006/07, its included then as well. Not sure what u call recent, but 8/9 yrs is stretching it!
The reason it's not on boards at farm walks, is that it's not fair on the other farmer who's receiving the rent to be making his finances public.

If it's not on boards at farm walks then how is it giving an accurate picture of the real profitability of the Business? Is there anything else missing from those boards?

I'm afraid a prospective new entrant could leave a farm walk with a totally wrong impression as to the profitability of the business model on display.

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If it's not on boards at farm walks then how is it giving an accurate picture of the real profitability of the Business? Is there anything else missing from those boards?

Yes, there's lots of other stuff missing from those boards, stuff like living expenses, mortgage repayments, income tax, how much money he has right now in his current acc, and what he had for his breakfast etc.
I wouldn't ask anyone these kind of personal questions, or expect to be thrown out at a public meeting, but maybe u would, I guess we're just different.
This is a selection of what's written at the bottom of farm walk handouts around here. I don't think they're trying to mislead anyone.

Farmer Ed

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

Farmer Ed wrote: »

If it's not on boards at farm walks then how is it giving an accurate picture of the real profitability of the Business? Is there anything else missing from those boards?

Yes, there's lots of other stuff missing from those boards, stuff like living expenses, mortgage repayments, income tax, how much money he has right now in his current acc, and what he had for his breakfast etc.
I wouldn't ask anyone these kind of personal questions, or expect to be thrown out at a public meeting, but maybe u would, I guess we're just different.
This is a selection of what's written at the bottom of farm walk handouts around here. I don't think they're trying to mislead anyone.

Thanks for clarifying that Very often at farm walks the headline profit figures are emphasized. I agree people should read the terms and conditions..

Deepsouthwest

Farmer Ed wrote: »

Thanks for clarifying that Very often at farm walks the headline profit figures are emphasized. I agree people should read the terms and conditions..

No problem, glad to help!
I suppose that is the purpose of farm walks, to emphasise headline profit figures/key performance indicators so they can possibly be replicated on other farms.

Farmer Ed

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

No problem, glad to help!
I suppose that is the purpose of farm walks, to emphasise headline profit figures/key performance indicators so they can possibly be replicated on other farms.

Great idea. just remember terms and conditions apply.

Kilmac1

Dawggone wrote: »

Hi Kilmac, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on robots.
Has scc remained the same as pre robots?


The 'big' question...can you head off for long weekends and trust the robots?

Very impressed now and it's getting there we had very low cell counts pre robots but it's just a matter of keeping an eye on them and you can yeah I have everything on the phone so can control everything on it

patsy_mccabe

Timmaay wrote: »

Agreed fully, only other thing I'd add is make sure the cows are able for it, will need to be a cow with a bit of milk, some cows tend to themselves off come August time from OAD milking, also a very Br Fr cow will put wayyy too much condition on her back from OAD all year around.

Why is too much condition a problem? Surely she would be healthier as a result. She could live 'off her back' then over the winter, like most suckler cows do.

Deepsouthwest

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Why is too much condition a problem? Surely she would be healthier as a result. She could live 'off her back' then over the winter, like most suckler cows do.

U want her to convert the grass into milk, having a fine herd of fat cows in August who aren't putting it into the milk tank dosent do much for ur bank acc!

frazzledhome

Deepsouthwest wrote: »

U want her to convert the grass into milk, having a fine herd of fat cows in August who aren't putting it into the milk tank dosent do much for ur bank acc!

The fat in their backs is actually money